1.05 Reentry - impossible?

[webkilla]

I've been playing KSP for a while... Steam say 469 hours in total.

yet despite this, I'm finding the changes in the latest update impossible to work with.


When I do something as simple as dropping a Mk1 command pod, with a heat shield underneath, and the small chute on top, straight down from a sub-orbital 200K max-height flight - everything else jettisoned and whatnot

then I can't get the damn thing to work.

The pod never slows down enough for the chute to become deployable. When I hit the ground at sea-level I'm going aruond 2-300 m/s


What on earth has changed? This is making career mode impossible - I don't have access to the drag-chutes yet.


Please advice




I can't describe how frustrating this is. Its like everything I knew about the game doesn't work anymore.

[Norpo]

[quote name='webkilla']...[B]straight down[/B] from a sub-orbital 200K max-height flight...[/QUOTE]

That's the problem, you're going so fast going straight down through the atmosphere you don't have any [I]time[/I] to slow down. Sub-orbital "hops" don't work anymore, try getting into orbit first, then lowering your periapsis to about 30km, that'll make you re-enter safely, giving you more time to slow down through the atmosphere.

[Jovus]

That's a [i]really extreme[/i] reentry profile. I don't think that qualifies as 'reentry impossible'.

My advice would be to change your playstyle so you don't rely on such extreme reentries.

[Gaarst]

Low altitude drag has somehow been reduced so that an simple command pod can barely slow down enough to deploy chutes, on a suborbital trajectory.

I suggest these two solutions:
- remove the heatshield: they actually make your craft go faster while falling in low atmosphere (discussed in [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/139655-Mk1-ablator-too-aerodynamic"]this thread[/URL], by GoSlash27, as he mentioned it himself below) and you don't need a heat shield for a suborbital trajectory;
- go flatter. Suborbital flights, even with an apoapsis below 70km, can be unrecoverable because of going too steep: this is much more an issue than with 1.0.4 (even crafts going as low as 30km with a 45° ascent angle can be too fast). You'll have to put much more horizontal speed than you had to until now, you'll need larger rockets to even reach space but this solution works. [s]What was your ascent profile for your 200km suborbital flight ?[/s]

Edit: coming down from 200km [I]straight-down [/I]was deadly even before 1.0.4. Never go straight up. Edited November 17, 2015 by Gaarst
Added link

[sal_vager]

Yeah don't drop straight down, you'll want a more [U][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistics"]ballistic[/URL][/U] trajectory, also the heat shield adds a lot of mass and mass has inertia, so it can pay to put it on its own decoupler, and drop it once you stop burning.

[GoSlash27]

I have noticed that the Mk1 with ablator is a little too aerodynamic to be safe once it slows to subsonic speeds. It just freefalls and has a hard time getting below 250 m/sec.

So what I do now is attach the heat shield with a decoupler and jettison it once the danger from heating is passed. Not only does this increase the drag from the capsule, but the jettisoned shield tends to stick in place and slow you even more.
You get to safe deployment speed with no problem doing that.

Best,
-Slashy

[FancyMouse]

[quote name='GoSlash27']I have noticed that the Mk1 with ablator is a little too aerodynamic to be safe once it slows to subsonic speeds.[/QUOTE]
Um that's weird - I've reentered multiple times with more than 1.5t payload (2 lander cans + heat shield + chutes + negligible stuff) on 1.25m radius and never found too late to deploy chutes

[Nothalogh]

[quote name='FancyMouse']Um that's weird - I've reentered multiple times with more than 1.5t payload (2 lander cans + heat shield + chutes + negligible stuff) on 1.25m radius and never found too late to deploy chutes[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I suspect OP is coming in way too hot

[FancyMouse]

[quote name='Nothalogh']Yeah, I suspect OP is coming in way too hot[/QUOTE]
Well I was referring to Slashy's finding. OP's problem is clearly identified in the first reply but I don't think Slashy made the same mistake.

[tater]

If you are not flying a ridiculous trajectory, there is no problem whatsoever. I've been messing with career since the patch, and I have yet to have any problems at all.

[GoSlash27]

[quote name='FancyMouse']Um that's weird - I've reentered multiple times with more than 1.5t payload (2 lander cans + heat shield + chutes + negligible stuff) on 1.25m radius and never found too late to deploy chutes[/QUOTE]

Fancy Mouse,
I haven't yet run into that situation either, but I have seen it a little too close for comfort. Try just an ablator, capsule, and parachute.
I've found a fix for it, though: Decouple the ablator after reentry heating subsides and everything's fine.

Best,
-Slashy

[Warzouz]

Personally I use a lot of recoverable SSTO rocket (from 15T to 550T) stage and I had a hard time saving them in reentry from LKO. I figured that a steeper deorbit help a lot. I used to set PE at 10000m (60m/s deorbit) now I do a 100m/s deorbit. The overheat is less destructive and I manage to recover the stage with a combinaition of airbrakes, 250m/s when overheat becomes dangerous and rolling the ship. I'm also equipped with drogues and chutes.

Reentry is much much harder than before, no doubt about it.

Same for Duna
Same for Eve

[fourfa]

+Warouz, what do you use as your new steep deorbit point for KSC? I set a pilot to plant a flag at the western edge of the Kerbin crater for deorbiting your SSTO boosters. Could go set another one

[maceemiller]

[quote name='FancyMouse']Um that's weird - I've reentered multiple times with more than 1.5t payload (2 lander cans + heat shield + chutes + negligible stuff) on 1.25m radius and never found too late to deploy chutes[/QUOTE]

Same here.....1.0.5 hasn't posed any re-entry issues for me.

[FlyDeltaJets]

Make sure you're using the latest version of FAR (if you have that mod). I was having the same problems (even after atmo re-entry, the craft would continue accelerating down to periapsis and continue right back out of the atmosphere). Once I installed new version of FAR, all was normal again.

[MrOsterman]

I'm remembering a quote about basketballs, and baseballs and hitting a piece of paper......

[WuphonsReach]

Possibly from the Apollo 13 movie?

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film75/corrections

Of course, it was not quite accurate in the movie, but the re-entry angle had to be accurate to about 2.5 degrees.