Dr_Turkey Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='razark'] It's amazing what happens when you don't treat your users like children, isn't it?[/QUOTE] I agree. Now back to your room young man, no nintendos or supper for you tonight! Hmmph! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4pt0r Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Dr_Turkey']I agree. Now back to your room young man, no nintendos or supper for you tonight! Hmmph![/QUOTE] Well you are already better than your predecesor, who pushed out an unfinished update to hit some magical "1.0" deadline, that required a solid month and a half of reactionary and spotty patchwork updates to get it to a good state. So congrats Turkey bro(sis?). Either way, might I invite you to dinner tomorrow? Edited November 25, 2015 by r4pt0r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulsource Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'm really happy to read that the update has been delayed, and additional time has been scheduled for bug-finding and -fixing. As 1.0.5 is working pretty well, there's no pressure to fix something quick. So, take as much time as you need, and then take some more. Better to have a well working update later, than a very buggy one soon. I don't know yet what I should think about the weighted contract system. I typically end up doing quadrillions (ok, I might be exaggerating here, but only slightly) of part testing contracts early in the game although they start to get boring pretty soon, simply because most of them can be done with extremely cheap unmanned crafts, but still pay out a nice amount of funds. If now the frequency with which other contract types are being shown decreases too much, it might become a very frustrating experience once one does no longer need to rely on part testing contracts to survive financially. Someone suggested in this thread that it'd be nice to have some way to influence what kinds of contracts show up, by defining goals for the space program. Kind of a "research focus" strategy, where one decides on a celestial, or on a contract type, that will then get a higher chance to appear. In my opinion that sounds more than just interesting. Maybe for a later update? Before I saw the post from RoverDude I was worried that the planned relays network requirements would be nerved to the point it no longer becomes reasonable to build a network in the first place, but with the comments I'm now quite curious what the control drawbacks one has to deal with will be if one doesn't have a connection. In any case, if someone doesn't like the new stock system, there'll likely be the option to play with full RemoteTech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='r4pt0r']Well you are already better than your predecesor, who pushed out an unfinished update to hit some magical "1.0" deadline, that required a solid month and a half of reactionary and spotty patchwork updates to get it to a good state.[/QUOTE] You might consider that 1.0 required a "hard' deadline, unlike other updates. Reviewers need a reliable release date for the NDA to lift, especially those in print with longer lead times. Advertising campaigns and such need to be scheduled in advance. Many of these things can't be easily pushed back. This really isn't any different than any other game, there are an incredible number of 0-day patches on new games, mostly due to external constraints preventing adjustment of release time. Thankfully we're past all that now, and Squad is free to set their own schedule for releases, delaying if they feel it's not up to snuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4pt0r Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Red Iron Crown']You might consider that 1.0 required a "hard' deadline, unlike other updates. Reviewers need a reliable release date for the NDA to lift, especially those in print with longer lead times. Advertising campaigns and such need to be scheduled in advance. Many of these things can't be easily pushed back. This really isn't any different than any other game, there are an incredible number of 0-day patches on new games, mostly due to external constraints preventing adjustment of release time. Thankfully we're past all that now, and Squad is free to set their own schedule for releases, delaying if they feel it's not up to snuff.[/QUOTE] Yes, yes, and I promise after stuffing myself with various meats and pies tomorrow, I will no longer be bitter about the half-year old go drama from an update for a game I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeboyt Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 What impact (if any) will this have on releases of the versions ported for X-Box and Playstation etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='RoverDude']Telemetry is still very much a thing. You will still have to get a connection back to Kerbin to to transmit science and have full control over your probes. But now you have another incentive - better science. Currently, some experiments can only get you to 100% if you bring back data (you get *some* from transmitting, but not all). With a relay in place, you can get a lot more of that science back, to the point where (for data based experiments) it may be on par with a physical return of the experiment. Not quite. You will still need to establish a connection back to Kerbin (directly or via a relay) to enjoy 100% instantaneous control of your craft (i.e. what you have today), but now there are more reasons to have a network in place - i.e. the optimum path pushes players down the direction of 'doing the right thing'. Usual caveat, all things subject to change based on feedback and testing during QA/EXP[/QUOTE] 1. Connection will still be needed, top, great, happy hippy here! 2. Dont get it - to transmit an experiment we will need a connection to KSC, and by having this connection we will get more science from 100%-only-on-return-experiments ... sooo ... what is the right thing to do? Will there be parts for relay satellites (computers boosting the data transfer/antennas with better transmission capabilities over greater distances) - and without them we will only get the amount we would get in 1.0.x versions of KSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Turkey Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Red Iron Crown'] Advertising campaigns and such need to be scheduled in advance. Many of these things can't be easily pushed back. This really isn't any different than any other game, there are an incredible number of 0-day patches on new games, mostly due to external constraints preventing adjustment of release time.[/QUOTE] Thank you. Historical Context is important, and the present context, with it's own complex variables and so on, is different from that past context. I mean, *gobble!* I hear eating goat this time of year is for cool people! *gobble* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EladDv Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Dr_Turkey']Thank you. Historical Context is important, and the present context, with it's own complex variables and so on, is different from that past context. I mean, *gobble!* I hear eating goat this time of year is for cool people! *gobble*[/QUOTE] while we dont have the so called "thanks*for killing us all with disease*giving" i think we should get bacon to be the official meat of this holiday also how is it going with the pardon from the president? have you heard back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curveball Anders Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Red Iron Crown']You might consider that 1.0 required a "hard' deadline, unlike other updates. Reviewers need a reliable release date for the NDA to lift, especially those in print with longer lead times. Advertising campaigns and such need to be scheduled in advance. Many of these things can't be easily pushed back. This really isn't any different than any other game, there are an incredible number of 0-day patches on new games, mostly due to external constraints preventing adjustment of release time. [/QUOTE] And it's not a new thing. Games got sold in retail as 1.0 or Gold in more or less unplayable state and the only way to get it patched was by some slow dial-up BBS or hopefully included on some Game media newspapers included CD. As in paying for a triple-A game, and then wait 3-4 months to get hold of the holy patch that actually made it work :/ The need for a defined date for a major release was almost the same back then. The pundits needed time to prep for a big launch (either for selling their mags or getting the clicks and shares). The lead today is a bit shorter, but it's still there, big sites, well known potatoes and bloggers don't like to be told to hold on their goodies for another month just because the studio wants to do some more QA. (One can be a bit cynical and wonder if there might be media who want a release to be a "major disaster and bug ridden flop", since that allows for two big splashes). // anders Edited November 25, 2015 by Curveball Anders Missed wrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terwin Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Squad: 'new' shader with specular reflections on appropriate pieces(like canopies) Me: Yay! (starts visualizing the view of the reflections on a canopy when in flight or in the Joolian system) Squad: We took a long hard look and Christmas is just not feasible Me: *sigh* (turns to Kerbals) Looks like that recently expanded fuel depot + training center on the north pole of Minmus will have time to be expanded to a fully self-sufficient colony(MKS) Kerbals: Yay! Me: That also means it is time to send out probes to Duna/Ike and Gilly Kerbal Engineers: On it Boss! Me: Mort, colonies are expensive. I am also going to want refueling in both those systems costing probably 1.5M ro0ts each Mort: On it Sir! Bring back those tourists you have near Minmus and we'll have enough for the Duna Refueler. If we can use an orbital ferry to transfer the passengers back and forth we could even use Training 1 and Training 1B as in-system cruise/rescue ships Me: I'll need a lot more tourist and rescue contracts for that to be useful. Mort: When you bring those 20+ tourists home safe from a tour of both moons, I can guarantee all their friends will want to go too, and in case you did not notice, there are currently 4 stranded 'recruits' and only 3 berths left on Training 1, so our success seems to be creating plenty of less-capable copy-cats in need of rescue... Me: Very well, you keep the contracts coming in, and I'll keep our customers happy while we expand throughout the Kerbol system! (until 1.1 at least) Mort: What was that? Me: Nothing! (I wonder if I should increase the contract availability again... I doubled it when I started this game, but once I go interplanetary, some will take a lot longer to finish, and I do not want to start running low on short-term objectives...) Suggestion: would it be feasible to make the contract availability(how many contracts can be available at one time) editable per-save? Possibly even something configurable in the UI? (probably a bad idea as it would allow players to reject all current contracts by dropping the max to 1 then get all new contracts by increasing it again, but it does not hurt to ask. At least it is pretty easy to update the config file) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterCity Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Good job and keep up the good work as usual, Squad. I completely understand your decision to push back the release. At least we won't be getting any inconsistent constantly-patched pile of something, as common with some AAA titles :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvell64 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I know that it's unlikely, but could we see any WIP screenshots? Like the new Flight UI or Map, or even some of the new materials textures and reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmiley53 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Thank you Squad! I'm thankful for you folks for making such an amazing game. Also for my wife and new daughter. :) I completely get and support the decision to push back the release. It's a bit disappointing, but I understand it's the right decision. I'm really looking forward to 1.1 next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Pixely']To be fair I think a somewhat realistic space simulator draws in a more intelligent and patient crowd than the average empty your gun into people fest. But still this forum is a welcome change from the whine and rage I've encountered on others.[/QUOTE] Exactly. The thing is, Squad has repeatedly held back information on the basis of "If we release a schedule of what we're planning on, then don't make that date, the users will be so very upset and call us mean names and be bad to us." That's the entire basis of the "[i]Thou shalt not ask about release dates![/i]" rule. As we can see, that's just not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swjr-swis Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Holding back on release for more thorough Q&A is the right decision in my view. Is there a way this could include some select user testing as well, for those hard-to-do-all-by-yourselves usecases that only the Kerbal community can come up with? Since I get a bit more time with 1.0.5, time to get cozy and start my career for real. That way I can be right about half-way finished conquering the system when 1.1 makes me want to restart all over again... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 The reason this doesn't bother me is because of another game, Neverwinter Nights 2. NWN2 is one of the best Dungeons and dragons based computer games ever done, and I've been playing since the dice and calculator days. The problem with NWN2 is several of the side quests were never finished... why? Because Obsidian couldn't finish it before the release date. So they released it unfinished... Yes, it's still a great game... but it could have been so much better. Squad, take what time you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='swjr-swis']Is there a way this could include some select user testing as well, for those hard-to-do-all-by-yourselves usecases that only the Kerbal community can come up with?[/QUOTE] That is exactly what the Experimentals Team is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='biohazard15'][B]Will it be KSP 1.1, or will it be KSP 2?[/B][/QUOTE] It's slated to be 1.1. To me, a jump to KSP 2 from here would sound like a fundamental shift in the game. The biggest change here is the move to Unity 5, but the core mechanics will remain (so we've been told :P ). [quote name='sieve']Well, one way ticket for the hype train please. haha I really can´t wait[/QUOTE] All in due time. :cool: [quote name='eddiew']In a choice between 1.1 for xmas but full of bugs, or next year and working perfectly...[/QUOTE] While delayed release will mean a better product, I'm not sure the choice is as black/white as "full of bugs or...working perfectly." Any time there's a fundamental engine update this big, there is high potential to be some seemingly obvious, pain inducing bug that will get missed. I think it'll be worth the pain though, if we get improved graphics and a better (faster?) physics engine. \o/ (I'm not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist.) [quote name='Plotch']I only have one question that really matter to me : Do you have any performances comparison to share between 1.0/1.0.5 and 1.1 ?[/QUOTE] That's the million fund question. There are some speculation threads elsewhere in the forum, but I'm sure it'll also depend on the computer. I would also guess that it's far too early to tell what the improvements will be overall, if they are still plugging away so hard at the interface. [quote name='dsmiley53']...and new daughter. :)[/QUOTE] Congratulations! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Red Iron Crown']That is exactly what the Experimentals Team is.[/QUOTE] I would gladly volunteer to help... I'm sure a lot of us here would... but I'm not sure what I could do to fix a bug if I encountered it. They need people lots smarter than me... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='Just Jim']I would gladly volunteer to help... I'm sure a lot of us here would... but I'm not sure what I could do to fix a bug if I encountered it. They need people lots smarter than me... lol.[/QUOTE] They recruited more testers before the last test cycle, afaik there isn't a requirement for more at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnionPacific1983WP Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Maybe we could have an update 1.0.6 with GP2 and its moons for Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxing_Kibbous Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 People can get annoyed about a buggy release, but they happen all the time- even in the free open source world where anyone can test the beta versions for months you still generally see a bugfix release soon after the official release because everyone uses software differently. Finding bugs requires a lot of people abusing software, and this only happens with official releases- it's the norm to release patches, not the exception. Anyhow, best game ever, can't wait for the big update :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelib Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I support the decision, you should spend the holidays relaxing with family and friends, rather than recovering from an aggressive deadline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Turkey Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 [quote name='dsmiley53'] Thank you Squad! I'm thankful for you folks for making such an amazing game. Also for my wife and new daughter. :) [/QUOTE] Thank you for enjoying it, and oh my Odin congrats on that new born daughter! May she be quite the explorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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