what will be the first flag planted on mars be?

[A35K]

It's quite interesting to see all this discussion about nationalism, but in my opinion, if we truly want to explore space beyond nearby planets, we need to move beyond that. Now this might not mean much, but think about it: Is there any advanced space-fairing alien species in movies whose home planet is divided into different sovereign territories? All of those saying that 'well this nation was/is the most advanced', but this won't last for long in historical terms. Great Powers either get overtaken by others and forgotten in history, or get destroyed in a war, and/or collapse due to internal tensions/economic crises. No nation will last forever, and paradoxically, the most powerful ones tend to be the ones which encounter the most problems. As we all know, space travel requires a lot of time, and thus dedication and commitment throughout that time, so basing an entire long term space program on 1 nation alone won't work well.

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, A35K said:

It's quite interesting to see all this discussion about nationalism, but in my opinion, if we truly want to explore space beyond nearby planets, we need to move beyond that. Now this might not mean much, but think about it: Is there any advanced space-fairing alien species in movies whose home planet is divided into different sovereign territories? All of those saying that 'well this nation was/is the most advanced', but this won't last for long in historical terms. Great Powers either get overtaken by others and forgotten in history, or get destroyed in a war, and/or collapse due to internal tensions/economic crises. No nation will last forever, and paradoxically, the most powerful ones tend to be the ones which encounter the most problems. As we all know, space travel requires a lot of time, and thus dedication and commitment throughout that time, so basing an entire long term space program on 1 nation alone won't work well.

That's Hollywood, and yes, the SyFy Channel remake of Battlestar Galactica did just that (various political identities of humankind divided into Capricans and the twelve other colonies based on the zodiac). They only came together for the "common good" when the extinction of the human race was becoming a reality. While you are correct that space travel, and I'm not even talking deep space but the vastness between Earth and Mars, is not going to happen unless it is a global effort. However, the questions begin to come as to who should lead the efforts, who should fund them, what representation of humanity the crew should be, etc. The world has no common vision for human exploration. I am afraid we are on the cusp of a Second Great Dark Age philosophically and scientifically.

Right now the world is looking for some sort of global political correctness but without factoring in human nature or even the precepts of Darwinism, evolution, and natural selection when it comes to human civilization. Then there's also the issue of personal liberty, which I am a huge supporter of. No one should ever be forced to violate their conscious or their personally held convictions. Why is it ok to require someone to act in a manner that is against their set of core values simply to appease society? That, my friend, is oppression and tyranny.

[worir4]

What if there is already a flag on Mars???? DUN DUN DUNNN!!!!

[More Boosters]

On 22.12.2015 at 1:06 PM, A35K said:

Well, the Cold War is long gone, so I don't see the point of bringing any national flag. I only hope that whoever lands on Mars first will bring a flag that represents humanity and the World as a whole.

Why? Most of the world has nothing to do with it.

[Nothalogh]

On 12/21/2015 at 6:44 PM, ModZero said:

Musk already has shown disdain towards concepts such as "labor rights" and "planetary protection"

Sounds like the man for the job, then

[Vanamonde]

The relative merits of Nazism, the causes of the world wars, and Elon Musk's personal ethics are either off the topic of this thread, disallowed by the forum rules, or both. Please don't get carried away, guys. 

[r4pt0r]

4 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

The relative merits of Nazism, the causes of the world wars, and Elon Musk's personal ethics are either off the topic of this thread, disallowed by the forum rules, or both. Please don't get carried away, guys. 

Roger wilco, appreciate the light hand and letting a bit of discussion happen.

[ChrisSpace]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2015 at 10:38 PM, adsii1970 said:

Virgin Galactic would be my first bet...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL

Now according to this article at http://www.cnet.com/au/news/las-vegas-odds-on-who-sets-foot-on-mars-first-are-totally-nuts/ the odds of different space agencies getting to Mars in their planned timeframes is:

SpaceX: 1 in 5

Mars One: 1 in 15

Russia: 1 in 60

NASA: 1 in 80

China: 1 in 100

ESA: 1 in 300

Other: negligible

In my opinion the odds look more like this:

SpaceX: 1 in 2

China: 1 in 10

NASA: 1 in 15

Russia: 1 in 20

ESA: 1 in 50

Another private space company: 1 in 100

Mars One: 1 in 150

India: 1 in 200

Japan: 1 in 300

International collaboration involving all major world powers: 1 in 1000

[Bill Phil]

20 minutes ago, r4pt0r said:

Roger wilco, appreciate the light hand and letting a bit of discussion happen.

Speaking of Roger, I think it should be a flag with a plunger on it.

[fredinno]

6 hours ago, worir4 said:

What if there is already a flag on Mars???? DUN DUN DUNNN!!!!

Alien NASA fake Apollo Flat Earth conspiracy.

6 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

That's Hollywood, and yes, the SyFy Channel remake of Battlestar Galactica did just that (various political identities of humankind divided into Capricans and the twelve other colonies based on the zodiac). They only came together for the "common good" when the extinction of the human race was becoming a reality. While you are correct that space travel, and I'm not even talking deep space but the vastness between Earth and Mars, is not going to happen unless it is a global effort. However, the questions begin to come as to who should lead the efforts, who should fund them, what representation of humanity the crew should be, etc. The world has no common vision for human exploration. I am afraid we are on the cusp of a Second Great Dark Age philosophically and scientifically.

Right now the world is looking for some sort of global political correctness but without factoring in human nature or even the precepts of Darwinism, evolution, and natural selection when it comes to human civilization. Then there's also the issue of personal liberty, which I am a huge supporter of. No one should ever be forced to violate their conscious or their personally held convictions. Why is it ok to require someone to act in a manner that is against their set of core values simply to appease society? That, my friend, is oppression and tyranny.

Via la Revolution?

[Martian Music]

2 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

 

Now according to this article at http://www.cnet.com/au/news/las-vegas-odds-on-who-sets-foot-on-mars-first-are-totally-nuts/ the odds of different space agencies getting to Mars in their planned timeframes is:

SpaceX: 1 in 5

Mars One: 1 in 15

Russia: 1 in 60

NASA: 1 in 80

China: 1 in 100

ESA: 1 in 300

Other: negligible

Mars One? I thought it's been clear that they're a scam?

And why's everyone giving up on NASA? They're the ones who even came up with the whole Journey to Mars idea.. I'll always believe in them, and in my opinion they will get there with the help of Space X and other agencies and countries.

[mrfox]

[A35K]

6 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL

Now according to this article at http://www.cnet.com/au/news/las-vegas-odds-on-who-sets-foot-on-mars-first-are-totally-nuts/ the odds of different space agencies getting to Mars in their planned timeframes is:

SpaceX: 1 in 5

Mars One: 1 in 15

Russia: 1 in 60

NASA: 1 in 80

China: 1 in 100

ESA: 1 in 300

Other: negligible

In my opinion the odds look more like this:

SpaceX: 1 in 2

China: 1 in 10

NASA: 1 in 15

Russia: 1 in 20

ESA: 1 in 50

Another private space company: 1 in 100

Mars One: 1 in 150

India: 1 in 200

Japan: 1 in 300

International collaboration involving all major world powers: 1 in 1000

First of all, I assume that when you say 'get to Mars', you mean with people. Space X could be an obvious candidate, but they still need a lot of time to get everything together to be able to complete this huge mission. I don't think (I may be wrong) that they currently have enough funds for such a mission. China, if they actually increase their funding to the Space Program in proportion with their huge economy, would be a very good bet, but currently they are way underfunded. Russia: Not even close, they just slashed their space spending to an all-time low. However a Roscosmos-ESA co-op would have very high chance I think. NASA would be an obvious candidate as well, but it mostly depends on how their funding goes in the near future. India and Japan, while both having successful space programs, haven't even sent a human into orbit yet, so it will be a while before Mars. As for Mars One, wasn't it a scam? 

 

[ChrisSpace]

4 hours ago, Martian Music said:

Mars One? I thought it's been clear that they're a scam?

That's why I drop their chances significantly in my estimate. But I still think they're more likely to land humans on Mars than, say, Sealand for example.

4 hours ago, Martian Music said:

And why's everyone giving up on NASA? They're the ones who even came up with the whole Journey to Mars idea.. I'll always believe in them, and in my opinion they will get there with the help of Space X and other agencies and countries.

If you think NASA is going to land humans on Mars first (if at all), then you clearly don't have an in-depth knowledge of how they did what they've done so far.

8 minutes ago, A35K said:

Space X could be an obvious candidate, but they still need a lot of time to get everything together to be able to complete this huge mission. I don't think (I may be wrong) that they currently have enough funds for such a mission.

Oh, Mars is going to be (relatively) easy for them funding-wise. The initial mission would only cost about $ (1-digit-number) billion. Colonisation is a different matter.

10 minutes ago, A35K said:

China, if they actually increase their funding to the Space Program in proportion with their huge economy, would be a very good bet, but currently they are way underfunded.

China is a bit iffy. Not as iffy as NASA or Russia though, which is why I gave it second place.

11 minutes ago, A35K said:

Russia: Not even close, they just slashed their space spending to an all-time low.

Well, they have shown their space capabilities before, although I suppose that was all before what happened in 1991.

12 minutes ago, A35K said:

However a Roscosmos-ESA co-op would have very high chance I think.

HAHAHAHAHAHA LOL

13 minutes ago, A35K said:

NASA would be an obvious candidate as well, but it mostly depends on how their funding goes in the near future.

See the reply to the previous quote.

13 minutes ago, A35K said:

India and Japan, while both having successful space programs, haven't even sent a human into orbit yet, so it will be a while before Mars.

For my list I added every nation which currently has plans to send humans into space. Except Iran, because they have enough things to try to deal with here on Earth.

15 minutes ago, A35K said:

As for Mars One, wasn't it a scam?

There is a difference between a scam and an extremely under thought doomed-from-the-start plan.

[A35K]

10 minutes ago, ChrisSpace said:

HAHAHAHAHAHA LOL

Before we start doing this... let's wait to see how their joint Mars rover mission goes (if it happens of course). And if they both collaborate with NASA as well, this trio would have the best chances.

Edited December 24, 2015 by A35K

[lajoswinkler]

This subject needs to be approached with great care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6RhIx6US6Q

[WinkAllKerb'']

4 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

This subject needs to be approached with great care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6RhIx6US6Q

whoever, whatever, whenever .... hahahihihoho ... pffft .... may be more kinda happy travel within the toaster void fellow explorer ...

it HAS to be done a way or another.

[More Boosters]

Again, I seem to be ignored, but I'll reiterate and ask, what does the rest of the world have to add to the effort? Most countries simply don't give a kraken about space.

I wouldn't count NASA out, aren't they still the best funded and with the best track record among all space agencies?

Edited December 24, 2015 by More Boosters

[Martian Music]

19 hours ago, ChrisSpace said:

If you think NASA is going to land humans on Mars first (if at all), then you clearly don't have an in-depth knowledge of how they did what they've done so far.

Enlighten me.

[A35K]

12 hours ago, More Boosters said:

Again, I seem to be ignored, but I'll reiterate and ask, what does the rest of the world have to add to the effort? Most countries simply don't give a kraken about space.

I wouldn't count NASA out, aren't they still the best funded and with the best track record among all space agencies?

What do you mean 'the rest of the world'? Has it occured to you that most countries cannot afford a Space Program? If a country has many problems, such as corruption and poverty, it is right they solve that before adventuring into space. That doesn't mean they don't care. Or maybe they don't care because they have so much more to think about, in terms of other issues. All the developed and powerful countries have a space program, so you can't say they are disinterested either.

Edited December 25, 2015 by A35K

[Bill Phil]

3 hours ago, A35K said:

What do you mean 'the rest of the world'? Has it occured to you that most countries cannot afford a Space Program? If a country has many problems, such as corruption and poverty, it is right they solve that before adventuring into space. That doesn't mean they don't care. Or maybe they don't care because they have so much more to think about, in terms of other issues. All the developed and powerful countries have a space program, so you can't say they are disinterested either.

But the USA has poverty and dozens of other issues, as do many other nations. But that's getting political.

The thing about space is that it's very important to modern society. GPS, communications, weather, etc are all direct benefits of space access. But you could buy those from others instead of founding a dedicated space program, if you're a developing nation with the cash.

[Nothalogh]

Anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of modern anthropology knows that the universal symbol of humanity is a crudely drawn nethers.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7_WTZ3bkTU0

It's the calling card of humanity. 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Nothalogh

[Melon kerbal]

Serious:I think it's be the UN's flag to represent the whole world.

Jokingly: MelonKerbalLand; My own country.

[MajorLeaugeRocketScience]

My vote is for a China-US-Euro co-op. Of course 99.99999999% chance of not happening, but would be great. I think a UN space agency is possible though. Also, my list of chances to go to Mars by 2040:

Nasa: 1 in 3

DoD: 0.75 in 2

Eueropean Union: 1 in 10

SpaceX: 1 in 7(?)

China: 1 in 4 (<---probably going to land)

Russia: 1 in 100

Mars One: Zero Chance

Apple/Disney: 1 in 20(lol, if they spent their money)

Edit: I wish so freaking bad Russia had a chance.

Edited December 31, 2015 by MajorLeaugeRocketScience

[Elthy]

Who is DoD?