$2k car?

[InterCity]

Hello, kerbonauts.

I am not sure how to start, but I'll try to give you the story:

My wife was complaining that she doesn't have a car. She'd like to have it, because she loves visiting her friends (especially now, when on maternity leave with plenty of time). The problem is that our budget is quite tight. Well... more than that.

I've recently got myself a mortgage and bought us a nice new house in the countryside. Now even though I'm a doctor, my salary is still fairly low (my attestation is not yet finished, which basically means that I'm getting half the money for the same work), and the mortgage eats about 70% of my salary. It will (hopefully) get better in about nine months, when I finish my attestation, but until then there's only about $150-200 left from my salary every month. Which means that I only have about $2k (one year of lease) left for the car right now. 

I do indeed know that in this price range, I'm getting the absolute bottom of the barrel. I'd buy that car for myself, since the car I have now is a Skoda Fabia bought from my parents, which is way better than what one could possibly buy for $2k and thus more suitable for my wife. 

As for the "new" car, all I want is something that will get me from point A to point B. The thing is that all cars at this price range are either crashed or have well over 150 000 km (100 000 miles) on them, which means that it probably won't be running for long. 

My question is: will the car run for about a year or two without any major repairs? It will probably be driven to work and back, which is about 20 km (13 miles?) each trip, six to seven times a week, plus some shopping trips. According to the internet, car prices are slightly higher here in the Czech Republic than in the US. The sloppiest cars start at $1k here.

For illustration, you can get something like this for just over $2k here.

Also, what should I pay attention to when picking that car? 

[Nemrav]

*person who can't drive, and not that great in finances*, take this as a grain of salt, this is a stretch of memory of information I got 2nd hand.

With those things be very careful about rust, those older ~97-99 cars are pretty nice and reliable, people get rid of them because of rust or other perpetual problems that are expensive. Get a good notice of what they've had done over the years, if there's all but a few major pieces that have had to be replaced, expect to replace the last 2 sooner or later.

edit: like I'm especially uncertain of the above, just remember to always have the history of the car checked for potential problems

Also get a good look at the accidents that have happened, and what had to be repaired, if its in certain places in the engine block then other parts in the same area may need a double check to make sure they aren't nearing their end any faster.

If it will run fine for the first year, it should work for the second.

Really, don't listen, just thoughts from a person who knows less than you.

oh yes and, always make sure the car has been undercoated to prevent rust, snow works wonders against you if you don't have it.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Nemrav

[Tex_NL]

Ask for the cars service history.
Before starting it check if the engine is either hot or cold. A hot engine that starts easily is no guarantee it will start as well cold.
Always take it for a test drive. Put some reasonable stress on the car by turning and braking. At speed, while only holding onto the steering wheel lightly, brake hard. If the car pulls to the side the brakes are shot. And listen for rattles and other weird noises. If possible have a friendly mechanic take a quick look at it.
A bright and clean engine bay in a used car is always suspicious. If they have thoroughly cleaned the engines it's often to hide something.

If the seller is unwilling to provide requested information or won't allow you to test or look at something, don't trust them, don't buy it! An honest seller won't mind answering questions.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Tex_NL

[cantab]

I'm not sure what things are like in the Czech republic. In Britain for that kind of money you're generally looking at a late 90s or early noughties hatchback. Japanese and Korean marques tend to be very reliable, Fords are good too, French and Italian brands are more likely to break down. 100,000 miles or thereabouts seems typical and these kind of cars will still have decent life in them at that age; I tested (but didn't buy) a Ford Fiesta with over 150,000 miles on it and while it felt worn out it obviously still drove OK.

The usual concerns about checking vehicle history and condition all apply.

For me in the end a family member gifted me their car with only 26,000 miles on it so that wasn't the problem. Insurance is what cost a bomb, with where you live being the number one factor in pricing above age and driving experience, so of course I'm in one of the worst places in the country

[Stone Blue]

I have had lots of experience with "bottom of the barrel" cheap used cars... I can say that yes, you are correct, a cheap car probably wont run long-term.... And may require more $$ in the short term for hidden repairs... You are definately gambling when buying cheap used cars...

I WILL say, however, I did get lucky with a high-mileage 9yr old, 1985 Toyota Tercel hatchback, once... It was probably the best $500 I ever spent for an auto... It had no reverse gear (4spd manual), had a large rusted hole at the bottom of the rear glass, and had dents all around it... I drove that thing for 4yrs... I beat it... Thru heavy winters and snow... Even spun it off the road into a DEEP ditch at 40mph, bouncing 3 of the 4 corners off the bank... Drove it for another year after that... I also used to take it "off-road" on roads that many people would not even take small pickup trucks...

Anyway, that was a lucky score...
 

[Guest]

Auto-repair is not rocket science. The biggest cost of auto-repair comes from ignorance. A car mechanic will walk all over you if he senses that you are incapable of doing the repairs yourself because of either apathy or ignorance. All of the information needed to diagnose and repair the automobile yourself is easily and readily available on the internet today and accessible through your favorite search engine. Armed with that information, you can save truckloads of money either doing the repairs yourself, or negotiating a fair price to hire someone else to do it for you. I haven't paid over $2000 dollars for a vehicle in over 20 years. I actually prefer the $500 dollar vehicle, and yes, they are out there, you just have to look. I keep 3 vehicles at all times, all pickup trucks. That way if one breaks down, I drive another until I either repair or replace the broke one.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Otis

[InterCity]

Thank you for all the replies.

While I am not a car engineer, I think that I can do some minor repairs (fixing hoses, changing brake pads and discs, checking fluids levels). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the good thing about buying a 10 year old vehicle is that you can likely fix a lot yourself, without all those mumbo-jumbo electronics and stuff. A few dents and rust marks here and there are not much of a concern; the car's merely to get me from point A to point B, putting style aside (in that case, I'd sell the old fabia and buy a cheap convertible, you can grab those for about three times the price) . Hopefully I can buy a proper car when my salary goes up

[Bill Phil]

Look for a kind of car that loses value fast. Hondas lose value somewhat slowly, so I wouldn't go for one.

But the cost depends on how much the seller values the car. You may find a good deal, but I would search closely. Be cynical with this. See if you can test drive it first. Ask about problems. Use carfax if possible. It's not 100%, but it's helpful.

Maybe you might want to lease a car until you have a greater amount of money. But leasing costs money per month, sometimes a lot. 

Maybe you can borrow a friends car? Or rent a friend's for a time.

Perhaps you can carpool? Idk about your work situation, but carpooling has a few advantages.

Whichever you choose, good luck,

[Camacha]

If you are close to the edge, do not buy a car. That is the only sound advice I can give you. Cars are notorious money pits and will always cost more than you hope. Save up a little more until you are a bit better off, the stress is not worth it.

[Kenobi McCormick]

On 12/26/2015 at 7:05 AM, InterCity said:

As for the "new" car, all I want is something that will get me from point A to point B. The thing is that all cars at this price range are either crashed or have well over 150 000 km (100 000 miles) on them, which means that it probably won't be running for long.

Ignore mileage. It is a meaningless stat. A car with 320,000 miles on it can run as well as the day it was made, and a car with 45,000 miles on it can burn more oil than gas while knocking harder than a pack of door-to-door salesmen on crunch week. I have an old Ford pickup that proves this point handily. It has 320K on it, yet it runs juuuuuuuust fine. Ok, not the best on NVH and cosmetically it's so bad they'd have to restore it a bit to use it in a Mad Max movie, but dammit if I get in it, turn the key, and let the clutch out it goes! I turn the wheel, it steers! I hit the middle pedal, it stops! And it doesn't stall or die out at lights! Passes emissions, even.

 

 

Look instead at maintenance history, as a well maintained car will last for decades, and just listen to the car itself. The car will tell you if it's still healthy or not. And if it is, coupled with a good maintenance history, ignore what the odo says.

 

 

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My question is: will the car run for about a year or two without any major repairs?

 

 

It depends on what car you buy. I can't sit here and tell you 'oh, this car will last for years, this one won't', because when you're buying cars this old the owner's maintenance habits play such a huge role in longevity. I can steer you towards vehicles that tend towards durability and longevity, but even with them you have to make sure it hasn't been abused, neglected, or both.

 

I will say that if you choose wisely you can get more use out of a $500USD car than most people get out of brand new ones. My parents bought me an '85 Ford F150 with ~200K miles on it for that back when I was in high school and I have since put 120,000 miles on it. My dad's a former mechanic that's worked on everything from economy cars to C-130s and F-4 Phantoms, so he knows his way around an engine, and he made sure they chose a vehicle that still had some life left in it.

Quote

For illustration, you can get something like this for just over $2k here.

 

That looks to be in fine shape. You really have to be scraping the bottom of the price range to get cars that look bad. But, even then, cosmetic damage is not an indicator of mechanical health. My old Ford looks like something you'd see the Brotherhood of Steel hauling power armor suits around Post Apocalyptia in. There isn't a panel on it that isn't dented, there's some body rust over the LR wheel and on the hood, and the only clearcoat left on it is in the door jambs. The interior is faded and cracking, the dash flops around like a fish in a boat when hitting bumps, half the gauges don't work properly, of the emblems it shipped with only the blue oval in the grille and the painted FORD on the tailgate remain in place, the steering wheel lost its center pad yonks ago. Pedal pads on brake, clutch fell off not too long after I bought it. But, again, that thing runs just fine. Cosmetically it's a wreck, mechanically I trust it more than I trust some brand new cars.

 

 

 

As for what car to buy...ahh, car selection in Tennessee and car selection in the Czech Repub are wildly different. If you lived in the US I could name some vehicle years and ranges to choose from where, provided you gave 'em a good lookover, you'd have good success rates. But I somehow doubt you'll be able to find a '76-'96 F-150 or Silverado kickin' about over there. What I can tell you, though:

 

* Timing belts are popular on the types of cars available to you, and when they break they like to omnomnom cylinder heads, valves, and pistons. So make sure this has been changed regularly, and continue to do so. If you cannot find an accurate record of the last time it was changed plan on having it changed as soon as you take delivery of the car.

 

* All the usual preventative maintenance checks. Bad maintenance is the number one cause of people thinking high mileage = bad car. People don't take the best care of their cars, they wear out prematurely, there ya go.

 

* Make sure the clutch works properly. Cable op clutches are notorious for stretched cables, these can feel like slipping clutches(And in fact cause slipping clutches). Hydraulic clutches can leak, had this happen on my F150 at one point. Mechanical clutches get linkage wear, and then of course the clutch itself is also to be looked at. Shift cables should also be checked, as they're the leading cause for floppy shifters in manual trans FWD cars.

 

* If you're pondering something with an automatic, do the following test. 1: Put it in D. 2: Stand on the brakes as if panic stopping. 3: Give it a fair bit of throttle with your right foot. The engine should rev up to somewhere between 1400 and 1750RPM, then hold steady. The car shouldn't move, but it should feel like it wants to, and there should be no clunks. Slowly let off the gas, select reverse, repeat the same test. If there's a problem with the torque converter or the first/reverse planetaries/clutches you will discover it here, and if you do walk away as that stuff is EXPENSIVE to fix. Clunking would indicate worn motor mounts, worn halfshafts, etc.

 

* Inspect the tire tread more closely than just 'it has tread y/n'. The tire tread will speak volumes as to the health of the suspension system. If they're wearing evenly, or if the only abnormal wear is under/over inflation, the suspension isn't gonna be badly worn. You can also glean a glimpse into the driving style of the previous owner if you know how to read the tires properly, as tire wear is affected by how aggressively the car is driven, how heavily loaded it is, etc.

 

* With the engine OFF, but the key on, try to steer the car. Does the wheel move more than 5-6 degrees before you feel heavy resistance? If yes, steer clear, the steering rack is FUBAR.

 

* Fire it up, try the above again. Does the power steering have any odd hard spots in it, does the assist feel like it's working properly?

 

* Bring a long, metal object. Crowbar, long screwdriver, long extension, something about arm's length. With the engine running, touch one end to the engine in various places and the other to your ear. There should be a very quiet tick in the top of the head where the tappets are, more quiet ticks from the fuel injectors on the intake ports, from the firing cycles on the exhaust ports. Everywhere else should be quiet.

 

* Never buy a car without test driving it. Some issues only crop up when it's going, like rear brakes that don't work, some overheating issues, on-throttle misfires, etc. Listen to the car, watch the gauges.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Kenobi McCormick

[GluttonyReaper]

It's not for everyone, but a moped or a scooter is a good low-cost option. Insurance tends to be fairly expensive, but petrol tends to be cheaper, so... 

[InterCity]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I got what I want. It's a brand new Maserati Gran Turismo, black in color with red...

 

Just kidding. It's a 1997 Toyota Camry. I haven't bought it yet, but I think it's decided. Waiting for a mechanic checkup to confirm my suspicion that it's a good buy. 

It has 345 000 km on it (= about 200 000 mi), and I can have it for about $700. Outside, it looks quite nice, although the paint is slightly faded, but it seemed technically good. Tyres were worn out evenly, engine was running surprisingly silent and I didn't have to wrestle the steering wheel. I tried most of the things Kenobi McCormick suggested, except for listening to the engine with a crowbar. I am probably going to replace the timing belt right away, though, since it's approaching 130 000 km (80 000 mi) since last change.

I took it for a test drive, and it handled pretty nicely. It's a bit cumbersome when accelerating, the engine revs up immediately when I press the gas pedal, but it probably doesn't have a 0-100 time of 3 sec. It's the basic variant with 96kW engine, and the car is heavy. Suspension seems OK, nice and soft, probably softer than what I'm used to, but nothing out of the norm. 

The only thing I hate is the interior. It has wooden panels in it. I hate wood in cars. It's disgusting. Well, nothing is perfect, is it?