Interesting research about stars and Kerbol.

[GenJeFT]

Hi all.

I have been doing research on life around M class stars and noted a few interesting things.

The habitable zone for a M class star is VERY close to the star itself. So close in fact that the planet would orbit the star in around 9 days. Which would also make the planet tidally locked to the star much like earth\'s moon is tidally locked to earth. Which creates problems as there would not be a day/night cycle.

Also, I discovered that the mass required for fusion is 0.08Sol. In the wiki it is noted that Kerbol is only as massive as 0.0088 solar masses which puts it outside the realm of class M stars and solidly in the realm of Brown dwarfs, or failed stars.

So the Kerbol system as it is explained in the wiki is impossible.

At minimum in order for Kerbin to be in the orbit its at and maintain liquid water Kerbol would have to be a K class star, not an M class, and have a solar mass of at least 0.6 solar masses.

[LockeCole]

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Edited April 24, 2023 by BSOM180

[rdfox]

Remember, Kerbin is vastly more dense than even the densest elements.

In other words, to paraphrase Hodgson\'s Law, 'Just repeat to yourself, it\'s just a game, I should really just relax!' 8)

[GenJeFT]

Remember, Kerbin is vastly more dense than even the densest elements.

In other words, to paraphrase Hodgson\'s Law, 'Just repeat to yourself, it\'s just a game, I should really just relax!' 8)

I know Kerbin is vastly more dense then it should be, but I was more concerned with the star then Kerbin.

And besides, I was just pointing out that the system as it is would be impossible. Not throwing a hissy fit about it. It does not take away from the game at all for me.

[LukeTim]

May I ask why the orbital radius and period dictates that the planet must be tidally locked?

I don\'t mean to be awkward, I just don\'t know enough to understand why that would be the case.

[GenJeFT]

May I ask why the orbital radius and period dictates that the planet must be tidally locked?

I don\'t mean to be awkward, I just don\'t know enough to understand why that would be the case.

Take the moon for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon

The moon is tidally locked to the earth orbiting at a distance of around .0025 and orbits every 27.3 days. That is because Earth (planet A) being more massive then the moon actualy distorts the shape of the moon and creates a buldge on the moon (planet . Torque is then applied to that buldge and that torque eventualy slows the rate of rotation untill one side of the moon (or planet is stuck always facing the Earth (or Planet A).

Now, for a planet to be habitable around an M Class star it has to orbit very close. An orbit of around 0.032 AU of that star for a star such as Proxima Centauri, and at 0.3 AU for stars such as Lacaille 8760. By contrast Mecury orbits at 0.3 to 0.47 AU. So any habital star orbiting a class M star is orbiting within the orbit distance of Mecury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems

At that distance the torque created by the Star would easily make the planet tidally locked to the star.

A good example is Mercury, which is tidally locked to the sun (more accuratly in a 3:2 resonance due to orbital eccentricity).

The math equations can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking#Solar_System_2

Any body orbiting something larger can become tidally locked to the larger body. Earth would eventually tidally lock to the sun, but Earth will be destroyed by the Suns red giant phase before that happens.

A smell a challenge from this.

[mincespy]

Kerbin is in a different universe where the laws of physics permit Kerbol to exist.

It is the only possible explanation.

[MaxMurder]

Fun Facts:

All known moons in our solar system are tidaly locked to thier parent body. Pluto and its moon Charon are both tidally locked to each other.

[GWBBQ]

Kerbin is in a different universe where the laws of physics permit Kerbol to exist.

It is the only possible explanation.

You mean they\'re not real?

[GenJeFT]

Fun Facts:

All known moons in our solar system are tidaly locked to thier parent body. Pluto and its moon Charon are both tidally locked to each other.

Nope.

Jupiter has 66 moons, only 8 are locked to it.

Saturn has 61 with secure orbits (over 200 observed but orbits are not stable). Of those 15 of them are locked, and another 5 are suspected to be.

Uranus has 27 moons (in addition to a funny headline linked below, only 5 of them are locked, with 14 suspected moons locked.

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/we-now-know-why.php

Also, only two of Neptunes 13 moons are locked. Another 5 suspected.

This stuff is really quite interesting. Some of you point out that it is only a video game (which it is) but every time you read this thread you learn something, something you may not have known if KSP did not exist. ;D

[LukeTim]

Take the moon for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon

The moon is tidally locked to the earth orbiting at a distance of around .0025 and orbits every 27.3 days. That is because Earth (planet A) being more massive then the moon actualy distorts the shape of the moon and creates a buldge on the moon (planet . Torque is then applied to that buldge and that torque eventualy slows the rate of rotation untill one side of the moon (or planet is stuck always facing the Earth (or Planet A).

Now, for a planet to be habitable around an M Class star it has to orbit very close. An orbit of around 0.032 AU of that star for a star such as Proxima Centauri, and at 0.3 AU for stars such as Lacaille 8760. By contrast Mecury orbits at 0.3 to 0.47 AU. So any habital star orbiting a class M star is orbiting within the orbit distance of Mecury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems

At that distance the torque created by the Star would easily make the planet tidally locked to the star.

A good example is Mercury, which is tidally locked to the sun (more accuratly in a 3:2 resonance due to orbital eccentricity).

The math equations can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking#Solar_System_2

Any body orbiting something larger can become tidally locked to the larger body. Earth would eventually tidally lock to the sun, but Earth will be destroyed by the Suns red giant phase before that happens.

A smell a challenge from this.

That\'s very interesting. Thanks.

I didn\'t realize that a body could be destined to be locked. I thought it just happened by chance, because the 'day' happened to be the same time as a 'year'.

[Richy teh space man]

Conspiracy theory:

All the Munoliths let Kerbol rotate naturally

[GenJeFT]

Conspiracy theory:

All the Munoliths let Kerbol rotate naturally

Not enough.

All the Munoliths let Kerbol avoid being tidally locked, and allow for its insanely high density

[LockeCole]

Deleted

Edited April 24, 2023 by BSOM180

[GenJeFT]

Not enough.

All the Munoliths let Kerbol avoid being tidally locked, and allow for its insanely high density

Spoiler-ception

The sun has munoliths hiding in it\'s light ring increasing its habitable zone

I dont think that means what you think it means.

The Monoliths represent that the entire solar system is an illusion created by some strange alien beings more intelligent then the Kerbals.

[samstarman5]

May I ask why the orbital radius and period dictates that the planet must be tidally locked?

I don\'t mean to be awkward, I just don\'t know enough to understand why that would be the case.

Tidal lock is an inevitability given enough time. Every day Earth\'s spin is actually slowing down. Whether it slows down enough to keep its heaviest side facing towards the sun before the sun dies is another question. It\'s all a question of mass and how its density is placed.

[LockeCole]

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Edited April 24, 2023 by BSOM180

[samstarman5]

I know that massive impacts can impart spin, like the theory behind our moon\'s creation, but what else can increase a planet\'s spin?

Liquid core. That\'s another factor that helps keep Earth a-spinnin. That\'s the rule for rocky planets. Gas planets are another story. I like to think ones at least as large as Saturn make their own rules.

[Menelmacar]

Our liquid core is slowing down also - I think we\'re more likely to lose our magnetic field (obviously generated by our ferrous core\'s rotation) and thus atmosphere than be swallowed up by the sun as it expands!

Kerbol is indeed a cruel mistress - although I\'ve been lucky since persistance was added and no Kerbals are hopelessly orbiting her without any hope of return. Kerbol also seems to shine through Kerbin and the Mun, I just get the reflected light from my craft; is this intended, a bug or a graphics/cfg setting I need to change?

[PictoKong]

Intended, they just dont care right now because it is more important to focus on bigger things than details like shadows

[samstarman5]

Our liquid core is slowing down also - I think we\'re more likely to lose our magnetic field (obviously generated by our ferrous core\'s rotation) and thus atmosphere than be swallowed up by the sun as it expands!

Kerbol is indeed a cruel mistress - although I\'ve been lucky since persistance was added and no Kerbals are hopelessly orbiting her without any hope of return. Kerbol also seems to shine through Kerbin and the Mun, I just get the reflected light from my craft; is this intended, a bug or a graphics/cfg setting I need to change?

True, but think of it as the lubricant for the gears. I imagine there may be methods to refresh it, but if its phase of significant cooling down does coincide with the Sun beginning its supergiant phase, then there wouldn\'t be any point(Considering solar and coronal flare activity is expected to skyrocket dangerously even before the Sun appreciably begins to expand). One would think that if we as a race were still around and hadn\'t killed ourselves off that we would have the capability to move on to younger systems. I do believe a certain Mr. Staczynski reminds us of that in a certain story he tells.

Kerbol shining through masses like Kerbin and the Mun is probably due to the current 'model' that is being used for it. I am willing to bet big things will change for lighting when Kerbol gets its true face put in. I look forward to that day, as I aim to sacrifice Jeb to its gloriousness. Nobody else may stand on the throne of Thrillmaster but me!

Intended, they just dont care right now because it is more important to focus on bigger things than details like shadows

It\'s not so much as they don\'t care as it is really just a matter of priority. Once Kerbol gets its main model in place(which is actually getting nearby), then it would be easier to work on tweaking the lighting for shadows and such. I wouldn\'t expect Munar Eclipses to cast a shadow on Kerbin, as that would be eat up GPU\'s for breakfast. It\'s actually been simulated before and even slowed the best computer at Squad to a crawl. There may be a workaround to simulate the shadow, but that would be a side project. Frankly, if they could at least give us awesome effects for when Kerbol is eclipsed by a planetary body(the Mun, Kerbin, or other world yet to be included), then I can ignore the part where we would still be sitting in daylight during the show. My mind can fill in the rest.

There\'s still a long road for KSP. I\'m enjoying the trip, myself. It may make me sad when it actually hits Release. Actually, I know it will.

[LockeCole]

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Edited April 24, 2023 by BSOM180

[luciencd]

Nope.

Jupiter has 66 moons, only 8 are locked to it.

Saturn has 61 with secure orbits (over 200 observed but orbits are not stable). Of those 15 of them are locked, and another 5 are suspected to be.

Uranus has 27 moons (in addition to a funny headline linked below, only 5 of them are locked, with 14 suspected moons locked.

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/we-now-know-why.php

Also, only two of Neptunes 13 moons are locked. Another 5 suspected.

This stuff is really quite interesting. Some of you point out that it is only a video game (which it is) but every time you read this thread you learn something, something you may not have known if KSP did not exist. ;D

The reason why this is, is because many of the moons you cited, were captured over time, as asteroids, and orbit retrogradely and have a high eccentricity.

I think what we mean to say is that moons formed from a planets accrection disk or impact during the early stages of planetary developement, are tidally locked.

just my little hypothesis...

The Earth\'s core has cooled down 250 Kelvin from it\'s initial 5000 Kelvin over the last 4.5 billion years. Iron remains molten at around 1800 Kelvin, so if we\'re at 4750 after 4.5 billion we\'ve got far longer, and the sun is supposed to go way before that.

The core helps maintain spin, as mentioned earlier, but I suppose we don\'t have a common way of increasing the spin...

I was just wondering if passing planets and their gravity might help, but I suppose they\'re more likely to slow us like the moon.

Also, the reason why the earth\'s core is still heated is because of radioactive elements like uranium and thorium.

The main isotope that fuels this is U-238, with a half life of 4.5GYA. So technically the intensity halfs every 4.5GYA, and ahhhh... im too tired to think properly!

blehblehbleh =P

[LockeCole]

That\'s cool

Radioactive core helps maintains heat through decay

Nice to know

[samstarman5]

...I was just wondering if passing planets and their gravity might help, but I suppose they\'re more likely to slow us like the moon.

If you mean passing as in slingshotting, then it would help. Slingshotting actually confers some of the world\'s spin to your speed, so you gain momentum out of the trade. The loss on the world\'s part is so minor it is barely considering. It does fall under the There is No Free Lunch philosophy, where you can never get something for nothing.

NASA has been using slingshot trajectories for all their transplanetary probes. The Cassini probe which went to Saturn visited Earth twice and Venus three times before leaving the inner solar system in order to get enough velocity. I think that might have been due more to dealing with a less than ideal window and making the best of where other worlds were at the time.

Here\'s a handy little tool for discovering how differences in approach can affect slingshotting around Jupiter. Careful, you can actually crash into the gas giant.

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/more_stuff/flashlets/Slingshot.htm