Combat Drone Inititative - Trial 1 Complete - Round 3 Videos Posted

[SasquatchM]

And, going by the rules, there is nothing to prevent me from starting said craft facing directly into the side of the VAB either.

[Wjolcz]

50 minutes ago, CreativeCombat said:

Limiting the number of parts and of which type one can attach does not really prevent one from placing those parts inside of each other to make the plane as a whole a smaller target, and thus more effective than a non-clipped plane, though.  The cost limit is certainly a more interesting idea than the points limited used in Top Gun AI but there's no reason for a designer to not put all his wings inside the fuselage and thus make them impossible to shoot off (without going through the fuselage first which would kill the plane anyway if the wings weren't clipped) as it's currently written. 

I'm actually curious to see an example of a craft with clipped parts that would give a visible advantage over the opponents. Can you provide such example?

[CreativeCombat]

36 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

I'm actually curious to see an example of a craft with clipped parts that would give a visible advantage over the opponents. Can you provide such example?

This is an extreme example, and not actually compliant to the rules of this tournament (or even armed) but it illustrates the point very nicely. 

http://imgur.com/XMXjvVK

http://imgur.com/0XRVWGx 

Both planes are made from the same number of parts.  In the second picture, the parts have been offset to be clipped inside each other.  As a result, the second plane presents a smaller target while being the same price and, if more carefully designed, the same CoL and CoM.  

Consider if a bullet struck the space where the right wing is on the unclipped plane.  It would damage or destroy wing, flinging the plane out of control and giving an advantage to its opponent.  If that same bullet struck in the exact same place on the clipped plane, it would miss the clipped plane completely dealing no damage.  The same is true of the fuselage and engine.  Therefore, the clipped plane has a significant advantage over its unclipped counterpart. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by CreativeCombat

[DoctorDavinci]

1 hour ago, CreativeCombat said:

This is an extreme example, and not actually compliant to the rules of this tournament (or even armed) but it illustrates the point very nicely. 

http://imgur.com/XMXjvVK

http://imgur.com/0XRVWGx 

Both planes are made from the same number of parts.  In the second picture, the parts have been offset to be clipped inside each other.  As a result, the second plane presents a smaller target while being the same price and, if more carefully designed, the same CoL and CoM.  

Consider if a bullet struck the space where the right wing is on the unclipped plane.  It would damage or destroy wing, flinging the plane out of control and giving an advantage to its opponent.  If that same bullet struck in the exact same place on the clipped plane, it would miss the clipped plane completely dealing no damage.  The same is true of the fuselage and engine.  Therefore, the clipped plane has a significant advantage over its unclipped counterpart. 

Perhaps you could build a drone that is compliant to the rules that uses clipped wings as you describe ... If what you say is true then it would be a formidable drone and I for one would love to see a working example that is within the scope of this challenge

On another note ... If SasquatchM requires a rig to use for running fights, I can supply such a rig

Edited January 4, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[CreativeCombat]

1 hour ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Perhaps you could build a drone that is compliant to the rules that uses clipped wings as you describe ... If what you say is true then it would be a formidable drone and I for one would love to see a working example that is within the scope of this challenge

On another note ... If SasquatchM requires a rig to use for running fights, I can supply such a rig

The plane I posted was only non compliant because it used a manned cockpit instead of a probe core.  If you swapped out the cockpit for a probe, it would be compliant with the rules and could be submitted.  Though it is unarmed, and poorly made on account of being something built in 5~ minutes to explain a concept rather than to be an actual plane. 

That at being said, there WAS a (in)famously formidable plane in the Top Gun AI thread known as the FA-33 Goldenhawk.  It had extensively clipped wings stuffed inside its fuselage, giving it the lift of an Albatross while being smaller than an Aeris.  As a result, it was an incredibly formidable combatant due to its small size making it nearly impossible to hit, and its wings and control surfaces making it highly maneuverable.  

I can't provide you with the craft file as my computer is down at the moment.  You might be able to dig it up from the thread, though.  Wing and part clipping was widely banned on that thread by community consensus, partially due to the antics of the Goldenhawk.  The problem with allowing wing and part clipping is that by allowing it, you effectively make it mandatory because an unclipped plane is significantly weak than a clipped one.  Therefore, designers and participants cease making unclipped planes in the interest of winning, similar to how if you allowed brass knuckles in a boxing tournament, you could bet that every boxer would be wearing a pair after they saw the first guy in one.  

[DoctorDavinci]

7 minutes ago, CreativeCombat said:

...... The problem with allowing wing and part clipping is that by allowing it, you effectively make it mandatory because an unclipped plane is significantly weak than a clipped one.  Therefore, designers and participants cease making unclipped planes in the interest of winning, similar to how if you allowed brass knuckles in a boxing tournament, you could bet that every boxer would be wearing a pair after they saw the first guy in one.  

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this ... I was only trying to egg you on to build one

That being said, placing wings and control surfaces where realistically it would be impossible to goes against the spirit of the challenge IMO

[CreativeCombat]

So, is part clipping allowed or no? 

[SasquatchM]

18 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Perhaps you could build a drone that is compliant to the rules that uses clipped wings as you describe ... If what you say is true then it would be a formidable drone and I for one would love to see a working example that is within the scope of this challenge

On another note ... If SasquatchM requires a rig to use for running fights, I can supply such a rig

Recording is covere. Thanks though

8 hours ago, CreativeCombat said:

So, is part clipping allowed or no? 

It was not specifically disallowed by the rules; however, I was at least hoping that people would live within the spirit of a friendly challenge. If people want to abuse the spirit of the challenge so obviously, well, I did not ban clipping.  It is entirely possible that I will haunt all of their posts on these forums and post links to a poor sportsmanship award image or something.

Edited January 5, 2016 by SasquatchM

[CreativeCombat]

I believe the sudden lapse in submissions may be due to the fact that the last person who submits a plane will have a significant advantage over other participants, as they will be able to examine all planes previously submitted in the thread and design theirs specifically to defeat those planes.  Therefore, everyone wants to be the last person to submit. 

[SasquatchM]

Well, I am considering running with what we have soon, or filling in with my own designs if we can't get another 3.  Next run I think I will ask for submissions in private messages, but encourage people to post pics of their craft at least.

[DoctorDavinci]

45 minutes ago, SasquatchM said:

Well, I am considering running with what we have soon, or filling in with my own designs if we can't get another 3.  Next run I think I will ask for submissions in private messages, but encourage people to post pics of their craft at least.

I like the idea of running the 5 we have now and on the next run have submissions in private messages.

Only thing I would add is that after each tourney the entrants craft files are shared among the entrants so we all have a chance to improve our designs for the next run.

[CreativeCombat]

On 1/6/2016 at 3:30 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

I like the idea of running the 5 we have now and on the next run have submissions in private messages.

Only thing I would add is that after each tourney the entrants craft files are shared among the entrants so we all have a chance to improve our designs for the next run.

I'm still working on my submission, currently in its ~52nd iteration and a lot of TLC and time has gone into it.  If this is what you're going to do, then it would mean a lot to me if you could provide a final deadline before doing so. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by CreativeCombat

[SasquatchM]

12 hours ago, CreativeCombat said:

I'm still working on my submission, currently in its ~52nd iteration and a lot of TLC and time has gone into it.  If this is what you're going to do, then it would mean a lot to me if you could provide a final deadline before doing so. 

52?  Wow.  I think I did about 4 this time, but I had no intention of actually having my craft win either.

 

Well, I would suggest submitting it by end of day tomorrow if you want it to be included in this round.

 

For the next round there may be multiple parts to the challenge or slightly different rules, just to keep it interesting.  Like maybe ground attack runs, or part limitations.  i sort of like the idea of tweaking the challenge between rounds.

[CreativeCombat]

http://imgur.com/M9cgIOC

My submission, Dawson's Christian.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/47d7f4734fuec1f/Dawson%27s%20Christian%20M82.craft?dl=0

Edited January 9, 2016 by CreativeCombat

[SasquatchM]

Sorry about the delay. We ended up moving into our new home a week earlier than expected.

[CreativeCombat]

So, is this happening, or what? 

[SasquatchM]

I am hoping to get a couple battles recorded tonight.  Sorry for the delay, but my family's move has proved to be interesting.

[DoctorDavinci]

Looking forward to it

[SasquatchM]

Here is the video of the very first 5 matches in round 1.  Doppelganger vs. QF-1

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by SasquatchM

[DoctorDavinci]

13 minutes ago, SasquatchM said:

Here is the video of the very first 5 matches in round 1.  Doppelganger vs. QF-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4MM94VtJ0

 

So the video is private

[SasquatchM]

Sorry, I noticed right away. Fixed now, but is still a little odd as it is processing.

[SasquatchM]

For whatever reason the embedded video doesn't seem to want to cooperate.  I'll poke at it some more tomorrow.

[DoctorDavinci]

That was a fantastic match ... Can't wait to see the next round

[CreativeCombat]

On 1/14/2016 at 8:44 PM, SasquatchM said:

Here is the video of the very first 5 matches in round 1.  Doppelganger vs. QF-1

 

 

 

Might I recommend that you install some visual mods to make the fights look more exciting, such as Destruction Effects?  As a suggestion, I have this installed for my tournament over on the Top Gun AI thread.  

Edited January 15, 2016 by CreativeCombat

[SasquatchM]

The entire first round is finished recording, all remaining 10 matches.  I still have to edit and upload them, but progress is made!

 

I did add Destruction FX, thanks for the link!

Edited January 15, 2016 by SasquatchM