[WIP] Real Scale Boosters

[NecroBones]

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

There were 4 types of SRMs on the Saturn V:

S-IVB Ullage SRM: 60 Kg, 15 kN, 220 s VACISP, 3.8 s burn time.
S-II Retro SRM: 226 Kg, 155 kN, 197 s VACISP, 1.5 s burn time.
S-II Ullage SRM: 256 Kg, 102 kN, 257 s VACISP, 3.8 s burn time.
S-IC Retro SRM: 230 Kg, 337 kN, 148 s VACISP, 0.6 s burn time.

(Thrust values for vacuum conditions. Mass values for loaded conditions. Source: Saturn V Flight Manual)

 

Awesome, thanks!  I found numbers for the thrust, and "roughly 4 seconds" for the burn time for the S-II ullage SRM so far, but that was it (though I did find that they're angled outward 10 degrees, so I replicated that). I thought about just doing the S-II ullage SRMs and let people use those in whatever combo they want, but I could do the others too. Google Image Search has been wonderful for this project so far, but of course the SRMs tend not to have a lot of close-ups, but I'll look and see what's out there.

Edited January 5, 2016 by NecroBones

[NecroBones]

I now have the S-II ullage SRMs tuned to 3.9 seconds at 257 vac ISP, and 0.256 tons loaded:

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by NecroBones

[legoclone09]

This pack looks great, but we need 10 meter docking ports. Do not question my incentives. 

[VenomousRequiem]

Can we see aft section of the S-IVb? Also will you be making the Auxiliary Flight Pack?

[NecroBones]

23 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Can we see aft section of the S-IVb? Also will you be making the Auxiliary Flight Pack?

I assume you mean these:

 

Probably.

 

Here's a test flight that screenshotted with the S-IVB:

 

[VenomousRequiem]

6 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

I assume you mean these:

 

Probably.

 

Here's a test flight that screenshotted with the S-IVB:

 

I did mean those! And the S-IVb looks good! 

[NecroBones]

I still have more to do on the Saturn of course, but I decided to detour slightly into Delta IV territory. The common booster core still needs more detail, particularly at the bottom near the engines, and I haven't built anything that goes on top of it yet (screenshot below has SpaceY stuff stuck on top), and the engines are a very simple design since they're mostly hidden in the boosters except for the bell anyway.

 

Edited January 6, 2016 by NecroBones

[NecroBones]

Worked on the Saturn S-IB stage:

 

 

 

EDIT: I made those white stripes on the black tanks a little too big in those screenshots. I've tweaked it afterward.

Edited January 7, 2016 by NecroBones

[VenomousRequiem]

Wow this is progressing fast! I'm proud of you, fam

[NecroBones]

39 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Wow this is progressing fast! I'm proud of you, fam

Heh Yes, much to my wife's dismay, I've been glued to the computer pretty continuously. Of course, it's also partially that I'm pretty shameless about copying bits I've already made and recombining them.

[NathanKell]

Great progress!

 

Question: Are those fins part of the stage part, or are they attached in 8x symmetry? Both KSP and FAR require the latter config if they're to provide lift, not just drag.

[NecroBones]

1 hour ago, NathanKell said:

Question: Are those fins part of the stage part, or are they attached in 8x symmetry? Both KSP and FAR require the latter config if they're to provide lift, not just drag.

 

Huh, that's a good point. Right now they're integrated (hence the Saturn IB having those paint lines matching up as they should on all sides). What I did was adjust the CoP on those parts so that they aerodynamically orient themselves into the air-stream as expected when in free-fall in stock. I didn't think about how FAR might handle that differently. I could separate them out pretty easily, but we'll lose the historical accuracy of all 8 fins on the S-IB being painted differently.That's probably a small price to pay though.

 

[VenomousRequiem]

Is this going to have RO versions and such? Like with the RealFuels and RealPlumes and such?

[NecroBones]

3 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Is this going to have RO versions and such? Like with the RealFuels and RealPlumes and such?

My overall goal is "yes", but I think most of those add the support from their end.... I think. I'll be happy to add what I need to though.

 

To get it started, these are using stock-alike custom particle emitters for the engines, and the overall propellant masses are correct. This lets us have reasonably accurate performance to the real world rockets, despite using the stock LiquidFuel and Oxidizer. It's just a matter of having the right MM configs to replace the fuels in the tanks (and fuel ratios in the engines), etc. The dry-masses are already where they need to be.

 

 

[NecroBones]

Of course my S-IVB is painted more like the Saturn V version than the Saturn IB version, and the angles are a little different, and I have a different number of ullage motors placed, etc, but I made a side-by-side. Man, I hope the Unity 5 shaders allow for more realistic sunlight conditions. Everything on the launch pad always seems so dark to me.

 

[BetaguyGZT]

Wow! I'm already a fan of your work, NB. This mod is taking my admiration to a whole new level. My goodness.

Can't wait to give it a spin!

[NecroBones]

 

I'm slowly back-filling some of the accessories for the Saturns. Something I'm thinking about is the retro-rockets for the S-IC stage. Apparently they're hidden inside the four engine fairings, and are designed to fire right through it and tear it open. I can either just make the flame effects come from the fairing, with no apparent port, or I can fudge it and add small nozzles that weren't there in the historical rockets. Or just skip these retro SRMs altogether. Hmm. Undecided.

 

13 hours ago, BetaguyGZT said:

Wow! I'm already a fan of your work, NB. This mod is taking my admiration to a whole new level. My goodness.

Can't wait to give it a spin!

Thanks, glad you like it so far!

[NecroBones]

 

So looking further at the ullage/retro SRMs, I'm seeing also that the Saturn V separation was handled differently between the 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd stage junctions. Get this...

 

When the S-IC (first stage) separated, it would fire its own retros (down in the engine fairings) while separating at the lower plane of the interstage. The interstage's ullage motors would fire, and then the five J-2 engines of the S-II (second stage) would fire, allowing for the upper plane of that interstage to decouple. Hence the video sequences that exist of the interstage falling away and getting burned by the engines.

 

But when the S-II (second stage) was done and needed to separate, it was handled differently. The upper plane only would detach. The interstage contained the retro SRMs to push the S-II rearward. Then the S-IVB (third stage) would fire its ullage motors, and ignite the one J-2 engine.

 

So that second separation was in some ways simpler. I think this means I need to rearrange the decoupler nodes on the parts again. The only fuel tank that needs a built in decoupler module is the S-IC. Ill circle back on the Saturn IB and look at its differences once I get this sorted out.

 

[NecroBones]

7 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

When the S-IC (first stage) separated, it would fire its own retros (down in the engine fairings) while separating at the lower plane of the interstage. The interstage's ullage motors would fire, and then the five J-2 engines of the S-II (second stage) would fire, allowing for the upper plane of that interstage to decouple. Hence the video sequences that exist of the interstage falling away and getting burned by the engines.

 

 

 

Here's the video clip I'm talking about. The interstage detaches at about 2:10

 

[NecroBones]

Test-firing some ullage/retro SRMs. Short-fueled the first stage to do it at low altitude.

 

I'm making the retro-motors part of the interstage or tank as appropriate, however the ullage motors are radial parts.

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by NecroBones

[VenomousRequiem]

How is the S-IVb set up? Is the little green adapter that tapers down to J-2 size part of the fuel tank, and then the J-2 a separate part?

That question extends to the S-II as well. Is the adapter to the 5 J-2s part of the tank?

Edited January 8, 2016 by VenomousRequiem

[NecroBones]

More SRM tests (notice the retro flames from the stage 1 engine fairings):

 

 

3 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

How is the S-IVb set up? Is the little green adapter that tapers down to J-2 size part of the fuel tank, and then the J-2 a separate part?

That question extends to the S-II as well. Is the adapter to the 5 J-2s part of the tank?

The conical sections are part of the tank, with the engines being separate parts. There's an attachment node inside the cone that accepts the interstage, which in turn is truly hollow (colliders around the perimeter only), so the engines can function even with the interstage still stuck on.

[VenomousRequiem]

4 minutes ago, NecroBones said:

The conical sections are part of the tank, with the engines being separate parts. There's an attachment node inside the cone that accepts the interstage, which in turn is truly hollow (colliders around the perimeter only), so the engines can function even with the interstage still stuck on.

That's what I was hoping you'd say! 

If you need help with anything, I suck but would be happy to help! You've got me on Steam if I'm not mistaken. :b

Update- You should make the ullage and retrorockets have a bigger, more dramatic effect! There's nothing like a big dramatic stage, with lots of flames and whatnot.

Edited January 8, 2016 by VenomousRequiem

[NecroBones]

4 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Update- You should make the ullage and retrorockets have a bigger, more dramatic effect! There's nothing like a big dramatic stage, with lots of flames and whatnot.

lol! Yeah, big fire is always fun, isn't it?

 

Anyway, showing off more screenies. Here's a close-up of some of the new radial parts on the S-IVB:

 

 

I'm also going to get back to work on the Delta IV family. But I just realized I have a problem that I need to work around. The Delta IV common booster cores have pipes on one side, and when they're arranged into the Heavy, they all should have the pipes on the same side. But since KSP rotates things around, using a single attachment point on the radial booster no matter which side of the center stack you're on, it would result in one side booster having the pipes on the wrong side. Same thing with the asymmetrical details on the bottom cone (that I haven't detailed yet). Since I haven't added any of this asymmetry yet, right now it looks like the screenie below. I can either leave it this way, or do mesh switching via Firespitter/InterstellarFuelSwitch to allow optional reversal of the details (effectively rotate the booster 180 degrees). Not sure what I'll do yet.

 

[NathanKell]

Yep, that's why I mentioned dual-plane separation and two decouples, in that post I made a ways back. Your saying it made sense and your were going with it made me think that you were indeed aware of the S-II interstage's dual-plane (vs. S-IVB's single-plane) methodology...

From the pics, looks like you've got it all sorted though.