[WIP] Real Scale Boosters

[Phineas Freak]

@NecroBonesfor the fairings, i assume that, for now, you use the stock bases. Have you thought about making some common Payload Attach Fittings?

Edited January 13, 2016 by Phineas Freak

[NecroBones]

8 hours ago, Felbourn said:

Yea the best benefit of the separated models is for modding your mod.    I think your "basic release" should be combined parts for the reasons you stated, AND because it's easier for users to understand how it all fits together who don't want to assemble 15,000 parts to get it working. It's even arguable whether the engine needs to be separate in the basic release. Technically nothing stops the tanks and engine and RCS and RESOURCEs and all that from all being one PART file since in my experience it's only staging via spacebar (and not wanting action groups to make things work at a basic level) that limits what can be combined. But if the tanks and truss and engine and RCS were separate MODELs in the PART then oh how joyous it makes things for a modder of mods like me!

Yeah I originally thought about integrating the engines with the stages, but decided against it for a couple of reasons. One is that people will probably want to experiment with different engine combinations than are used in the real world, but also it makes my life a little easier by only needing to make each engine once, without duplicating it all over the place. It makes it slightly harder too since they need their own part configs, and I have to make a "top" for the engines, but I'm making those really simple, like the KS-25 Vector's small cap. I think it's striking a pretty awesome balance at this point.

 

But yeah, those DCSSs have pretty complete models in each of those sections (no missing polygons where things meet up), so I can probably just save it out in separate segments. I'll just have to reorganize the colliders a little.

 

 

7 hours ago, Norcalplanner said:

Just wanted to drop a note to say... WOW!

NB, I've always enjoyed your mods thoroughly, and recommend them frequently to others.  This is definitely kicking things up a notch.  Thanks again for all the hard work you put into your mods.  It shows.

Thanks! Glad you like it!   Feedback like this helps keep me going.

 

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

@NecroBonesfor the fairings, i assume that, for now, you use the stock bases. Have you thought about making some common Payload Attach Fittings?

Yeah, the bases themselves are custom for each stage size they'll attach to, but it's using the stock procedural fairings. I may circle back at some point to put in more realistic clamshell fairings, but that's more of a long-term goal. When I started, I wasn't sure I'd include fairings at all since I envisioned it as just including the booster sections. Imagine the Saturn V from the bottom up to the Instrument Unit, but not the fairings or Apollo craft. Also strap-ons like the Space Shuttle SRBs. But fairings are pretty important, so I'm including those, as well as basic adapters to use normal sizes on the rockets as well.

[NecroBones]

Check this out. File this one under the "why not?" and "because we can" categories.

 

Since Porkjet's SSME artwork is pretty nice, I added a config that adds the RS-25 SSME using his model. It scales it up 95% to get it to about the right diameter, and gives it the real world mass/ISP/thrust, etc. This screenshot is also a test that the split-out DCSS models still line up correctly.

 

 

EDIT: I've been trying to gives all parts a real-world "Manufacturer" value. Where I'm ading things that don't exist (adapters to fit stock sizes for instance), I've frequently been making it "Rocketjet Kerbodyne".   Do you guys think it would be useful to add "RSB:" in front of all of those so they all sort together when sorting on manufacturer?

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by NecroBones

[Phineas Freak]

Better create your own manufacturer. If you worry about RO, manufacturer names will be changed anyway to match the real.

[Kartoffelkuchen]

I'd rather suggest using your own manufacturer for all parts. It also let's you show parts from the same manzfacturer which makes things easier.

[Felbourn]

Gorgeous models and textures, separated parts, it's just... just so... so...

[NathanKell]

Heh, talk about extremes of TWR difference, going from 5m DCSS to...that with an SSME!

[jonrd463]

Lol! I've had a few occasions where I lost patience with an upper stage's lack of oomph and said "screw it!" and slapped on a RS-25.

[NecroBones]

5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Better create your own manufacturer. If you worry about RO, manufacturer names will be changed anyway to match the real.

 

5 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

I'd rather suggest using your own manufacturer for all parts. It also let's you show parts from the same manzfacturer which makes things easier.

OK. Sounds like we're probably drawing a consensus here. I can either make it "Real Scale Boosters" or just some up with something different for the manufacturer.

 

 

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Heh, talk about extremes of TWR difference, going from 5m DCSS to...that with an SSME!

 

3 minutes ago, jonrd463 said:

Lol! I've had a few occasions where I lost patience with an upper stage's lack of oomph and said "screw it!" and slapped on a RS-25.

Holy smokes, yes indeed. At one point I started using Rhinos for everything, because quick burns are awesome.

 

Speaking of TWR and high thrust... Have you ever wanted to try slapping some Shuttle SRBs onto a Saturn V? I know I've wanted to see that. Soon, it shall be possible:

 

As an aside, one difficulty I'm running into with regards to thrust numbers is the fact that solid propellant rockets tend to have variable thrust during the ascent. Some websites give the maximum thrust, others the average. For the STS SRB below, I picked something that is still on the high side apparently (the burn time is a bit less than it should be), but of course the player can always use the thrust limiter to bring it down to the average or something.

 

[VenomousRequiem]

1 minute ago, NecroBones said:

 

OK. Sounds like we're probably drawing a consensus here. I can either make it "Real Scale Boosters" or just some up with something different for the manufacturer.

 

 

 

Holy smokes, yes indeed. At one point I started using Rhinos for everything, because quick burns are awesome.

 

Speaking of TWR and high thrust... Have you ever wanted to try slapping some Shuttle SRBs onto a Saturn V? I know I've wanted to see that. Soon, it shall be possible:

 

As an aside, one difficulty I'm running into with regards to thrust numbers is the fact that solid propellant rockets tend to have variable thrust during the ascent. Some websites give the maximum thrust, others the average. For the STS SRB below, I picked something that is still on the high side apparently (the burn time is a bit less than it should be), but of course the player can always use the thrust limiter to bring it down to the average or something.

 

Could you make an Aries 1 as well? You'd have to add another segment to that SRB and a J-2x second stage. 

[NecroBones]

Just now, VenomousRequiem said:

Could you make an Aries 1 as well? You'd have to add another segment to that SRB and a J-2x second stage. 

Huh, I hadn't thought about that, but it's a good idea.

[Felbourn]

3 hours ago, NecroBones said:

I can either make it "Real Scale Boosters" or just some up with something different for the manufacturer.

Necrotech Industries

[Jimbodiah]

Saturn V with boosters, isn't that just an SLS ?

[jonrd463]

5 hours ago, NecroBones said:

Speaking of TWR and high thrust... Have you ever wanted to try slapping some Shuttle SRBs onto a Saturn V? I know I've wanted to see that. Soon, it shall be possible:

I'll do you one better. How about SRB's the size of a Saturn 5 main stage surrounding a 20m monster core? This is a WIP build I'm working on in RO capable of hauling over 800t to LEO. As for why? Because.

Edited January 14, 2016 by jonrd463

[NecroBones]

49 minutes ago, jonrd463 said:

I'll do you one better. How about SRB's the size of a Saturn 5 main stage surrounding a 20m monster core? This is a WIP build I'm working on in RO capable of hauling over 800t to LEO. As for why? Because.

LOL. No other reason is needed, right?

 

-------

 

Made some improvements to the STS SRB, which I needed to do before forking off copies to make other sizes (such as for Ares I). Often the first test turns up all sorts of things to fix, such as problems with the gimbal, heat glow, etc. In this case there was a mesh gap because the gimbal range is so wide, and I needed to fix that. (The SRBs have a +/i 8 degree nozzle gimbal, so I wanted to replicate that).

 

As an aside, my internet access was down most of the evening, and may have intermittent problems, plus I'll be busy with other things for a few days. There probably won't be any new screenshots until early next week. Or if there are, it'll only be one or two before then.

 

The first shot below has it flying with the 3.75m probe core from SpaceY just under the nose cone. The nose is like the SpaceY ones recently added-- with separator SRMs. I reused the art assets, but sharing a texture with the new SRB.

 

 

[Jimbodiah]

@jonrd463 I have a Jupiter III for those kinds of things (stock game). Launched an Orion CM with it just for fun

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[NecroBones]

OK I just had to see what this would look like.

 

 

 

 

[Jimbodiah]

SLS!  it just has the first two satV stages combined  Copy paste with rockets haha

[Phineas Freak]

10 hours ago, NecroBones said:

Speaking of TWR and high thrust... Have you ever wanted to try slapping some Shuttle SRBs onto a Saturn V? I know I've wanted to see that. Soon,

Considering that the Saturn V MLV 4 would have a payload capacity of ~160 metric tonnes with the puny (compared to the RSRM) Titan UA1205 boosters, i cannot imagine what capacity this puppy can have...

If you want data about the RSRM, the Orbital ATK catalog includes all possible versions (2, 3, 4 and 5 segments). The 4 and 5 - segment versions would be awesome!

[jonrd463]

Jimbodiah - Nice! I love doing ridiculously huge builds in regular sized KSP and thought I'd try it in RO. While we have the luxury of sandbox mode and the limits of our imaginations, it's easy to see just how financially ludicrous such builds are in real life.

Necrobones - An idea I've been toying with is "what if?" Heavy variants of historical rockets using the same design scheme as the Falcon and Delta IV heavies. For instance, a Redstone heavy using two strap-on Redstone first stages. I also thought about a Saturn V heavy(-ier), but that leapfrogged into the monster I posted above.

BTW, your models are looking fantastic! Even though I said in an earlier post that I'd probably skip this for RO, I may have to reconsider. Like I said, I have fun building my own, but if I ever get around to doing an actual RO-based space program, your stuff would be great for controlling part counts. Hand building with procedurals tends to rack up a lot of parts in the way of struts, individual tanks, etc.

[NathanKell]

15 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

SLS!  it just has the first two satV stages combined  Copy paste with rockets haha

Eh?

It's more like it has the middle stage only, and some strapons. See the Saturn II studies. Saturn V is like if you took the SLS boosters and put them under the core, and didn't ground-light the core, and then added a third stage on top. 3 stage kero+hydro+hydro != 1.5 stage solid+hydro sustainer.

 

Tbh they have little more than paint scheme in common. And not even that, now. :]

[Jimbodiah]

I was only kidding, Nathan

[NecroBones]

 

So just a head's up (again) that I won't be able to add much (or get on the forum much) for the next few days.

 

To that end, I figure this is probably a good time to get some hands-on feedback. This is totally not release-ready yet, not even as a beta, so I'm calling this a "pre-pre-alpha". I think I have the tech tree stuff set up reasonably well, but if you're using SpaceY, be sure to get the SpaceY updates I posted today, since it expects that.

 

The career prices for parts are totally up in the air and probably don't make much sense right now.

 

Otherwise, feel free to do some building and launching with what I have so far, and let me know your thoughts:

 

Download link:  http://ksp.necrobones.com/files/RealScaleBoosters/RealScaleBoosters-0.1.zip

 

EDIT: Also, if you look in the mod's "Ships" folder, I have some saved copies of Delta IV and Saturn rockets, without payloads. The Deltas have the #1 action group set to extend the upper stage engine's skirt extension.

Edited January 14, 2016 by NecroBones

[Gaarst]

@NecroBones, nice one ! Trying it right now !

I'll see what these things can do in RSS.

[Gaarst]

Seems alright so far.

I have two complains, but I don't think you can solve them:

• VAB is too small ! Building a Saturn V is very frustrating
• The RS-68's plume is so nice in real life that KSP's plume looks just bad

Anyway, no complains about the mod so far, didn't find any bugs while playing for a little bit, and the launchers are perfectly able to fulfill their job in terms of payload to LEO. (I never realised upper stages in real rockets had so low TWR, I have to make my ascent profiles a lot steeper than what I usually do, and even then I usually end up falling for a while before reaching orbital velocity).