To return or not to return?

[Vanamonde]

At first I was so happy to land alive that I just left the guys there so I could come back and marvel at my achievement. Now if I land in a place that turns out not to have nice scenery, I take off and practice coming back to Kerbin. Otherwise, I leave them there so they can pose for postcards:

[Endeavour]

After getting the picture there isn\'t much point of leaving them there. And it\'s easy enough to put more back if you want another picture.

[VincentMcConnell]

Don\'t you think an RCS system is kind of pointless? Nice lander, though.

FYI: You don\'t need RCS just to land. Simply adjust your attitude on the descent.

[Randox]

I always like to bring my Kerbalnaughts home. However, I use a lander mod to help with building a descent and assent stage, so when I leave, I leave the descent stage behind to serve as a trophy, and something for my future rover missions to look at, as in the attached picture. The command pod that left the legs behind returned safely, even if they didn\'t have enough fuel to pull out of their polar return approach and had to settle for an ocean instead of the KSC. I sent the rover next so that I would be able to look around, and maybe explore the methane lakes. Decided to jump into orbit and travel halfway around the moon to check out the old landing stage. Unfortunately, until we get EVA\'s and maybe a crew transport module, the rover crew have no real way to return home. While there might be enough fuel to relaunch the rover (those legs are good for more than just the landing), it can\'t safely land on Kerbin anyway, because I\'ve never thought about it before. I think my next generation of rover will be able to detach the command pod from the fuel tank, so that if I do send it back to kerbin, they won\'t die in a horrible fiery blaze of glory.

And now I\'m sad, because their stranded and they didn\'t need to be. When we get EVA\'s, I will certainly send out a rescue ship.

[Katalliaan]

It depends on the purpose of the mission. If there is a reason to leave it, I do so (marker, satellite, out of fuel, etc). Otherwise, I try to return it to Kerbin.

[Vanamonde]

Don\'t you think an RCS system is kind of pointless?

Au contraire! It\'s true that even big ships can turn without them, so I leave it turned off until the final phase of my landing approach. Then I have 4 of the linear RCS thrusters aimed straight down, which I use for bursts to fine tune my descent rate, and then to bring myself to an almost complete stop just before touchdown. It\'s MUCH easier than trying to throttle-up/throttle-down continually to maintain descent rate because you have finer control and faster response time. So as long as I have the tank installed anyway, I might as well go ahead and add the 4-way thrusters, for versatility. They don\'t weight much, and can add to the vertical thrust.

Besides, I\'m still pretty new at the game and not that great of a pilot. On several occasions I\'ve limped a crash-damaged or out-of-gas ship home on the delta-V of the RCS system. When your weight is down to your last stage, it can serve as an auxiliary propulsion system, if you have time for the sustained burns it requires to build up effect.

I\'ve tried to build a Minmus lander that uses RCS instead of regular engines, but it burns through the little tanks too quickly. Produces more than enough thrust to liftoff, though.

RCS: don\'t leave home without it!

Attached: closeups of the RCS arrangement of the lander in the pic above, and my Minmus lander.

[VincentMcConnell]

You don\'t have to throttle up and down.. Just run the engines at a fairly low thrust to make what\'s called a 'descent rate'. If you do it correctly, you can leave the engine running during the entire descent. RCS was not used on the Apollo missions to fine tune the descent rate.

[Crass]

You don\'t have to throttle up and down.. Just run the engines at a fairly low thrust to make what\'s called a 'descent rate'. If you do it correctly, you can leave the engine running during the entire descent. RCS was not used on the Apollo missions to fine tune the descent rate.

STOP LIKING THINGS I DONT LIKE!!!

In all seriousness, I put RCS on almost all my landers even if I only use a sliver of its fuel. And for newer pilots, and wonky landers it can really be hard to find a nice balance on the throttle for an even descent rate. Apollo missions also had a fairly useful if basic landing computer, and had things like radar rangefinders to tell them they\'re precise altitude. Being able to kill your horizontal movement while keeping your rocket oriented upright is a godsend, and in stock Kerbal it really is flying by the seat of your pants. In those hairy situations RCS does make a difference.

To the original post: Nice photo op, it is great to savoir the moment but if I were you I would try my best getting throes suckers home. Or hell, fly em to Minmus. ;P

[Cykyrios]

I always have one RCS tank on my lander, not to fine-tune the descent, but rather to ensure I land perfectly vertical: I don\'t want to tilt the rocket several degrees at mere hundreds of meters above the surface to kill that remaining horizontal velocity. It also helps to change your landing site a few hundred meters without too much maneuvering (but consumes more fuel).

All in all, I find that adding that tank plus RCS thrusters is worth the weight, and can also help fine-tuning your return/reentry trajectory.

[samstarman5]

I feel something should be left behind. I wouldn\'t mind when EVA\'s are further developed, a Kerbal flag is included to plant at landing sites. Get on it, Nova!

Don\'t you think an RCS system is kind of pointless? Nice lander, though.

FYI: You don\'t need RCS just to land. Simply adjust your attitude on the descent.

Ask Jim Lovell that.

[sss]

I NEVER leave my kerbins on the mun! ;P unless ive made a city or ive destroyed the engine.

[Vanamonde]

You don\'t have to throttle up and down..

I also use the method of directing my attitude to kill horizontal speed. I find it easier than using RCS. However, as you\'re changing attitude to direct part of your thrust horizontally, that component of the vector is no longer being applied to vertical thrust; therefore, your descent speed can vary. Furthermore, if it builds up while you\'re steering, when you resume vertical flight you\'ll need to shed the additional momentum as well as resume counter-acting gravity, which would require throttling up from what had been an adequate setting for a slow descent before you built up the vertical momentum. Which would subsequently require throttling down again, so that you don\'t overcorrect and bob up like a cork. Rather than throttling up and down to maintain my rate of descent against these factors, I get it close to where I want it, then fine tune with RCS bursts. Then I can leave the throttle at a constant setting, and it\'s one less thing to worry about.

RCS was not used on the Apollo missions to fine tune the descent rate.

I doubt their burners were scaled to make a serious change in the ship\'s momentum, but the ones in the game are, so why not? Also, I imagine their throttle was more sophisticated. For me, the difference between climbing, hovering, and sinking is about notches 1-3 out of 15 on the game\'s throttle scale, so changing it at all can make a huge difference in my trajectory. It\'s too gross a tool for fine control.

Anyway, we could have a thread for landing strategies if somebody wants to start one, like the ascent path discussion. I\'m sure there are other valid methods. This works for me. And like I said, the RCS can come in handy in other ways.

if I were you I would try my best getting throes suckers home.

Once crews persist and gain experience, I will definitely bring them back. For right now, I just figure they\'re camping out and toasting smores. ;D

[Vostok]

I always try to bring the kerbals back home, but I like to leave something behind on the mun or minimus, usually a descent stage, then detach a return stage or rover-return stage from that, leaving it as evidence on the mun.

[decemberstorm]

i try to return my guys home but when a particular spaceship gives my lots of trouble ill leave it their.

[Randox]

Been thinking about making a video on how to land without becoming a fireball, and I have confirmed that I can still do the whole flight start to finish on manual control (was afraid I might have gotten too used to plugins).

For me, I normally finish killing lateral velocity at about 4km altitude (for the Mun. 6km for Minimus). After that, if your engine and attitude control is good, its a strait drop with minimal finial corrections after that to account for chaning orbital circumfrence. But getting most of the work done up high is nice, because its lower stress. By the time I ditch my descent rocket, and its just lander using its own engine, it should be a pretty strait drop. I normall ditch the descent rocket at 1km on the Mun.

[Menelmacar]

I always have one RCS tank on my lander, not to fine-tune the descent, but rather to ensure I land perfectly vertical: I don\'t want to tilt the rocket several degrees at mere hundreds of meters above the surface to kill that remaining horizontal velocity. It also helps to change your landing site a few hundred meters without too much maneuvering (but consumes more fuel).

All in all, I find that adding that tank plus RCS thrusters is worth the weight, and can also help fine-tuning your return/reentry trajectory.

I use RCS on my landers and orbiters - I like having control over my attitude! How do you guys do all the spins necessary for a TMI-circ-and-munar touchdown without RCS? I find little bursts can really help my course and the ability to push pro-grade when my attitude is retro-grade is super handy for minor adjustments.

Using a joystick with RCS bound to the hat switch has much improved my Mun landing smoothness - like others I more or less cut all my speed about 4km up from the Mun, then I turn on my sas and keep pointing normal, at slow vert speeds your vector moves around like mad but with RCS on the hat switch (I assume keyboard too but the control is much finer on a stick) you can just steer your vector icon around. I managed to touch down a heavy lander last night at around -1m/s.

I always return if it\'s possible - but I haven\'t quite figured out returning yet, or even landing at any particular location.

I\'d like to know how those who don\'t use RCS control their ships in space - just gimballed engines (and messing up your course while you change your course) or is there something I\'m missing?

[GoodGuy]

Well, landing without RCS is pretty easy. At least to the experienced pilot. I kind of despise RCS in ships that don\'t need them. I mean, if there is a ship that requires RCS to go straight, then there\'s a problem.

[Menelmacar]

Well, landing without RCS is pretty easy. At least to the experienced pilot. I kind of despise RCS in ships that don\'t need them. I mean, if there is a ship that requires RCS to go straight, then there\'s a problem.

It\'s not going straight that\'s the problem, it\'s turning around in space (which you do a lot when you overshoot your targets like I do ;D ) - I\'d love to lose a lot of that RCS weight on my ships if I could just figure out how to spin around without throttling up a gimballed engine and increasing my chances of going off into obvlivion.

[Randox]

My rockets normally carry an RCS tank and 4 or 6 thrusters bellow their lander, but its really just for emergencies, and a habbit from some of the previous designs that didn\'t handle so well, and needed RCS during takeoff to help them fly strait. I still feel better having it though, so I normally keep a tank around, even though on most missions the thrusters never get used. My landers never carry them though, although I do like the idea of using them to help keep lateral velocity in check. Might be a bit easier to manage than tilting.

My rockets can turn just fine though using their SAS modules, which are capable of providing easily enough torque. Now, depending on the mass of your ship, and where the unit(s) are, its not going to be super fast, but its normally enough. My only vessel that uses considerable RCS is my orbital interceptor pod, which is essentially a flying RCS system. It has a real engine to handle orbit changes, but for the actual interception, I need the full 6 degrees of freedom and the fine control of an RCS system.

[Panichio]

My first landings always stay.

[Vanamonde]

It amuses me that no/sometimes is consistently outpolling yes by 3:2. There are A LOT of stranded Kerbals out there!

[Menelmacar]

I replied depends, Sometimes my kerbals die or are stranded due to untested landers and mind-altering substances. I always TRY to bring them back but I\'m just not good enough to respond yes on the poll, poor kerbals :\'(

[Analogy]

If you are able to land them on Mun, you have more than enough skill to bring them back. Honestly, bringing them back is just the victory lap compared to what it takes to bring them there. The moment they land safely on Kerbin is the moment you know you\'ve succeeded.

[samstarman5]

If you are able to land them on Mun, you have more than enough skill to bring them back. Honestly, bringing them back is just the victory lap compared to what it takes to bring them there. The moment they land safely on Kerbin is the moment you know you\'ve succeeded.

It\'s not a successful failure without the return.

I have to wonder how much this will change when atmo re-entry mechanics get changed with heat added. There may be more inclined to keep their craft on the Mun as opposed to taking the chance of goofing on the return and carbonizing your kerbals.

[Vanamonde]

Mun was starting to get kind of crowded, so I\'ve begun bringing my missions home. It\'s pretty easy once you know how, but figuring out the process was quite tricky and counter-intuitive. My first 3 returns hit atmo about 20 degrees from vertical at 3km/s, which I suspect is more like a Tunguska event than a landing. Did you notice that sissy little accelerometer in the cabin only goes up to a paltry 15Gs? ;D But I think I\'ve got the hang of it now, and it is rather satisfying to bring the guys home. Now to try it from Minmus.