Dealing with >500 data from experiment in MPL

[Foxster]

Experiments run on Eeloo produce a lot of data. A Materials Study I have just run produces 516. 

The trouble is that can't be processed by the MPL because of the data limit of 500. 

Any way around this or is an MPL useless for some experiments on Eeloo?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Foxster

[KatzOhki]

I think you could maybe just process one experiment at a time, but if it's more than 500 with a single experiment then I don't know what to tell you. That's the kind of glitch that would force me to some kind of save modification.

[KerikBalm]

Ummm.... That to me justifies a .cfg file edit to increase data storage. Luckily, that is easy to do.

[monophonic]

It legitimately counts as a bug. I would report it and mod the lab to accept enough data to allow me to process the experiment.

@Claw, would this qualify for stock bug fixes?

[r_rolo1]

Well, in general I always thought that 500 data per science lab was ridiculosly low, but if you can't even run some experiments through it because of that ...well, it definitely is in need of a fix.

Edited January 10, 2016 by r_rolo1

[Claw]

Yep. Sounds like it's a situation that wasn't thought of when the 500 science cap was placed on the lab. That was done to limit it's "overpower"-ness (if that's a word), though I think few people take one all the way out to Eeloo. Nice find.

[John FX]

You don`t need to take the MPL all the way out to Eeloo, you can bring the results back to kerbin and process them there.

I think you should be able to overstock an MPL but if you do you could lose the excess data, for example I have an MPL in orbit with an experiment waiting to be process with 216 data. I`d like to process it when I have 400 data left, put my data up to 500 and lose 116 data but I have to wait until I have all 216 data spare in my MPL.

That or be able to process parts of experiments, in the case above I would then be left with 116 data left to be processed for that experiment.

Either way would be nice.

[LordKael]

I think it should just automatically add new data, and the 500 data cap only affects the speed at which it is converted to science. 

[r_rolo1]

16 minutes ago, Claw said:

Yep. Sounds like it's a situation that wasn't thought of when the 500 science cap was placed on the lab. That was done to limit it's "overpower"-ness (if that's a word), though I think few people take one all the way out to Eeloo. Nice find.

TBH I don't really see any real exploit that could be done with the science lab that the data cap could prevent ... It is not that you can't simply store the science that you have that you can't convert ASAP because of the cap and convert it piecemeal as you get space for the data.

On other words, why do we have a data cap at all? *dunno*

[Foxster]

12 minutes ago, r_rolo1 said:

TBH I don't really see any real exploit that could be done with the science lab that the data cap could prevent ... It is not that you can't simply store the science that you have that you can't convert ASAP because of the cap and convert it piecemeal as you get space for the data.

On other words, why do we have a data cap at all? *dunno*

Maybe just so that you have to visit the lab occasionally rather than load it up with a few thousand data and leave it until it's all cooked. 

Seeing how it works with timewarp though that really isn't much of a restriction. 

26 minutes ago, John FX said:

You don`t need to take the MPL all the way out to Eeloo, you can bring the results back to kerbin and process them there.

I didn't need to but I'd never done it before so I thought, why not?  

I was just finishing off a little self-imposed challenge of completing the tech tree on a new science mode game within 24 hours. I had just 500 more science to generate and thought this might be a fun way to do it. 

[r_rolo1]

3 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Maybe just so that you have to visit the lab occasionally rather than load it up with a few thousand data and leave it until it's all cooked. 

Seeing how it works with timewarp though that really isn't much of a restriction. 

Yeah, that was pretty much my point. At this point of the game, where waiting out with some kerbals in a far far away outpost has no consequences and time warping is actually encouraged by the current stock game structure, forcing a data storage cap serves little propose. If there was any kind of life support in stock, , stuff would be diferent ...

[John FX]

Someone recently posted about MPL trains that they thought of building where you get a few MPL and build them int a train in the SPH which you launch and roll them off the end of the runway. Then you get a few science experiments from a quick flight or similar and put them in the first MPL. You process them into data them move them to the second and so on.

After a while you have a load of MPL sitting there chugging away at making science and bingo, full tech tree in a short while relatively all without leaving LKO.

Having a data cap on an individual MPL does not stop their ability to be used in a way that breaks the game science wise. Maybe there should not be a data cap but a cap on the science that results. You would have to transmit every 100 science or they stop researching.

 

Congrats on getting your MPL to Eeloo though.

[Foxster]

4 minutes ago, John FX said:

Maybe there should not be a data cap but a cap on the science that results. You would have to transmit every 100 science or they stop researching.

I think there is a cap now of 500 science and it will then stop generating more. So, there really isn't that much need for the data cap at all. 

[Foxster]

6 minutes ago, John FX said:

Congrats on getting your MPL to Eeloo though.

Cheers.

I'm starting to wonder if anyone has ever done this before. Not because it's terribly hard but because it's perhaps not that useful - except that the science multiplier is X15 on the surface of Eeloo, the highest in the system. 

[John FX]

Well let`s face it, if you are standing on Eeloo you don`t have need for more advanced tech to go to further planets...

Are those solar panels doing anything?

[Foxster]

3 minutes ago, John FX said:

Are those solar panels doing anything?

[KerikBalm]

meanwhile, around moho, an X stat is producing roughly 6x more power than that gigantor.

IIRC, a gigantor produces about 150 EC/sec at moho.... so call it roughly 300x more power.

Also... was eeloo at perapsis or apoapsis when you got there? at perapsis, its closer than Jool after all.

I really think the stock solar system needs 1 more planet, an "ice giant", then move eeloo to be in a resonance with that (like pluto and neptune). 1 gas giant instead of 2, 1 ice giant instead of 2... seems like a good system to me.

Then Eeloo would really be bad for solar power... it seems most people act as if its so far out... but its closer than jool much of the time (though not half)... which in terms of sunlight intensity is like being at Jupiter

 

 

[Jeanjvs]

I have the same problem with surface samples on my Laythe base.

[Temstar]

Maybe we need a part that's explicitly designed to store data, like a space station file server. Then have data be transferable just like electricity.

[Claw]

4 hours ago, r_rolo1 said:

TBH I don't really see any real exploit that could be done

I don't know either, tbh. It isn't how I would do science at all. It's just another one of those minor bits that makes an attempt at introducing some sort of limiting mechanic, but doesn't really fit in with how the game is structured.

If you all really want to lift the cap with an add-on, it's easily done in one of two ways. Either get Module Manager and make a config file to modify the lab, or open the largeCrewedLab.cfg and edit it directly yourself.

 

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleScienceLab
        containerModuleIndex = 0
        dataStorage = 500
        crewsRequired = 1
        canResetConnectedModules = True
        canResetNearbyModules = True
        interactionRange = 5
        SurfaceBonus = 0.1
        ContextBonus = 0.25
        homeworldMultiplier = 0.1
        RESOURCE_PROCESS
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            amount = 10
        }
    }

 

Change dataStorage = 500 to whatever you want, save, and restart the game. I know that's not an answer to "why is there a cap?" But for those of you who want it changed (add-ons or not), it can be done fairly easily.

[Wjolcz]

I just want to move around the IVA spaces with the camera (not the actual models of kerbals) and do the experiments myself.

How well I do and how many points I get should depend on how many experiments I performed and if I stirred them together clockwise or counter-clockwise.

IVAs could have some more uses than just looking pretty. Beep boop clicking big red buttons to see what happens!

[fourfa]

18 minutes ago, Temstar said:

Maybe we need a part that's explicitly designed to store data, like a space station file server. Then have data be transferable just like electricity.

There is a science hard drive in Tarsier Space Technology:

though it needs a bit of tweaking - the small hard drive can't hold even a single set of science data from all the stock instruments, the large one only holds like 4 landings worth.  Easily tweaked though

[katateochi]

10 hours ago, John FX said:

You don`t need to take the MPL all the way out to Eeloo, you can bring the results back to kerbin and process them there.

I think (not 100%) that there is a bonus for processing the science within the SOI you got it from.  So there's possibly some advantage to taking the lab with, but I'm not sure.

9 hours ago, John FX said:

Someone recently posted about MPL trains that they thought of building where you get a few MPL and build them int a train in the SPH which you launch and roll them off the end of the runway. Then you get a few science experiments from a quick flight or similar and put them in the first MPL. You process them into data them move them to the second and so on.

After a while you have a load of MPL sitting there chugging away at making science and bingo, full tech tree in a short while relatively all without leaving LKO.

Having a data cap on an individual MPL does not stop their ability to be used in a way that breaks the game science wise. Maybe there should not be a data cap but a cap on the science that results. You would have to transmit every 100 science or they stop researching.

 

Congrats on getting your MPL to Eeloo though.

There is a problem (awkwardness) to this approach.  I had a multi lab station and the concept works fine, BUT when it comes to re-stocking the labs with data, you have to disconnect all but the lab you want to transfer data to. Otherwise it will fill one lab up and then say you can't put any more data into the lab, even though there are other empty labs present. (that was the case in 1.0.4, not tired that again in 1.0.5)

 

[KerbMav]

3 hours ago, katateochi said:

I think (not 100%) that there is a bonus for processing the science within the SOI you got it from.  So there's possibly some advantage to taking the lab with, but I'm not sure.

Yes, and another bonus for doing it while landed.

There is also a malus for doing it on Kerbins surface.

14 hours ago, r_rolo1 said:

TBH I don't really see any real exploit that could be done with the science lab that the data cap could prevent ... It is not that you can't simply store the science that you have that you can't convert ASAP because of the cap and convert it piecemeal as you get space for the data.

On other words, why do we have a data cap at all? *dunno*

The lab generates science faster the more data it has available, so the cap was implemented to prevent an overly fast generation of science points.

Yes, the algorithm could have been written to only take a data value up to 500 into account, but this has not been done.
Yes, time does not really matter in KSP, nevertheless this was the reasoning behind this.

[Armisael]

There is one other effect from the data cap (that I've noticed at least). If you have several hundred data of experiments sitting in a lab waiting for processing, it's tied up there - if you want to bring the data back home, you either don't process much of it or you have to wait a long time.

I dunno if this is a good reason, but it certainly is a thing.