Noob to making mods

[Yorou]

I would like your opinion on this. 

 

I, like many others, find the career mode lacking. I have been thinking about how to improve for a couple of months now and an idea has coalesced in my mind. I think it's a great overhaul to the current career system and would love to be able to mod it in game. 

 

So here's where I need your opinion. Considering I have almost no programming knowledge, is it realistic for me to even try?

 

For my idea, I think I would need to learn how to manipulate contracts, how to change certain parts functionality and how to modify the parts unlock screen. 

 

I'm sure this is a bit vague to you guys, but I am unsure how to share my idea. 

[Ser]

1 hour ago, Yorou said:

So here's where I need your opinion. Considering I have almost no programming knowledge, is it realistic for me to even try?

It would be hard but if you not only have ideas but also are intrested in learning how to code, you should definitely try. Start studying the source code of the simple mods that work with the things you're going to.

Everyone have started with something.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Ser

[Streetwind]

13 hours ago, Yorou said:

For my idea, I think I would need to learn how to manipulate contracts, how to change certain parts functionality and how to modify the parts unlock screen. 

Modifying the parts unlock screen... you mean the R&D center?

...ahahaha. Hahahaha. *cough*sputter*  Erm, I mean. Good luck. You are going to need it.

 

The other two things? No actual coding required at all, only ModuleManager.  

[stupid_chris]

1 hour ago, Streetwind said:

Modifying the parts unlock screen... you mean the R&D center?

...ahahaha. Hahahaha. *cough*sputter*  Erm, I mean. Good luck. You are going to need it.

... It could potentially be as simple as overlaying your own screen over it and disabling the stock system. Better not give advice on things we have no clue about.

Otherwise, that sounds doable, but a lot of it sounds like things that other mods potentially already do. Make sure that before you launch yourself in this, you know exactly where you're going, why, and what exactly you want to achieve, else you might end in some other mod's shadow. It's also much much safer to start small. If you have some coding experience, that's a good start. Otherwise, start learning C#, outside of KSP. It's far from the best learning environment. The addon development forum has a lot of links and info that can help you regardless of your situation. Start small and progressively work up the complexity of the things you're trying. It's definitely not impossible, but it sounds like a pretty large scale project that would take a lot of time and effort. If you throw yourself into it too fast, you'll discourage and likely drop the idea.

[Streetwind]

1 hour ago, stupid_chris said:

... It could potentially be as simple as overlaying your own screen over it and disabling the stock system. Better not give advice on things we have no clue about.

Well, I based my comment on what I've seen while following the custom techtree mod scene for the past two years. It was always a troublesome undertaking because of just how inaccessible the R&D system used to be. It got a lot better in (I think it was) 1.0 when Squad allowed directly modifying the tech tree via config file, but at the same time, that locked away certain features we had previously available through things like TechManager. It remains a working but unsatifying solution, and other parts of the R&D screen still aren't nearly as easily tweaked.

And, well, overlaying the entire scene with your own screen... I don't think any KSP mod has ever done something like that? At least I know none, feel free to correct me. Considering you'd have to build all the mechanics you want that screen to support, build a bridge to KSP's own game mechanics, and also produce a whole new GUI, I personally can't imagine that it would be anything less than a small mountain of work.

[sarbian]

My advice would be to start small. If you go with a big project from the start you will have trouble finishing it.

As for the R&D screen I would advise to not go near it until 1.1 is out. The code is likely to change and make things easier or harder, so spending time on it now seems pointless.

[Yorou]

Thanks for all your input. It really does help. 

 

I'm curious, should I keep my ideas secret or is the modding community respectful of other's idea? I mean, would my concept be stolen?

[stupid_chris]

8 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Well, I based my comment on what I've seen while following the custom techtree mod scene for the past two years. It was always a troublesome undertaking because of just how inaccessible the R&D system used to be. It got a lot better in (I think it was) 1.0 when Squad allowed directly modifying the tech tree via config file, but at the same time, that locked away certain features we had previously available through things like TechManager. It remains a working but unsatifying solution, and other parts of the R&D screen still aren't nearly as easily tweaked.

And, well, overlaying the entire scene with your own screen... I don't think any KSP mod has ever done something like that? At least I know none, feel free to correct me. Considering you'd have to build all the mechanics you want that screen to support, build a bridge to KSP's own game mechanics, and also produce a whole new GUI, I personally can't imagine that it would be anything less than a small mountain of work.

Yes, modifying the already existing tech tree is rather hard, because you dont have access to all the private members of the corresponding class, you have to do with what is public, and that's rarely easy or enough. That's why overlaying sounds better. And yes it has been done, but not in the way you're thinking. FAR is essentially overlaying over the stock aero system. It nullifies the stock system, and pushes it's own forward. It's the same idea. Deactivate the original, add your own over. For major changes to how the tech tree would work, that's likely easier than modifying the original tree's mechanics.

4 hours ago, Yorou said:

Thanks for all your input. It really does help. 

I'm curious, should I keep my ideas secret or is the modding community respectful of other's idea? I mean, would my concept be stolen?

For now, your concept is pretty vague. But the community is not known for infighting and ripping off other people's content. The goal of the modding community is not to get your mod to be the best, but to give the best experience to the users. This is why most of the modders (especially those in charge of the most used mods) usually work together to help integrate their mods to each other seamlessly. We usually try to all work in the same direction. The more info you'll give, the best we can help.

[Ser]

On 03.02.2016 at 11:47 AM, Streetwind said:

Modifying the parts unlock screen... you mean the R&D center?

 

Actually, it's doable.

On 03.02.2016 at 1:02 PM, stupid_chris said:

... It could potentially be as simple as overlaying your own screen over it and disabling the stock system. Better not give advice on things we have no clue about.

And that seems to be not necessary. I've managed to manipulate the elements of R&D screen: you can add custom hooks on them and even gain access to GUI panels and buttons, haven't tried that with the part unlocking stuff though, but it seems to be doable.

@Yorou, Anyway, I'm agree with @Sarbian, it is better to wait for 1.1 release because GUI is expected to be seriously rewritten there and all of your time and effort put into it could be in vain.

18 hours ago, Yorou said:

I'm curious, should I keep my ideas secret or is the modding community respectful of other's idea? I mean, would my concept be stolen?

If someone steals your idea you should be glad: you won't have to implement that yourself then By the way, that's another solution for your question: you may just place a requirement on the forums and if someone finds it interesting he'll implement it thus letting you to not bother with coding.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ser

[Yorou]

Haha, your right Ser. Even better, I could team up with someone who can code my ideas... 

 

I'll work on a "sales" pitch and post it up. There's quite a bit of planning and fleshing out to do.

 

This is exciting, I can't wait to share it all!

[stupid_chris]

6 hours ago, Ser said:

And that seems to be not necessary. I've managed to manipulate the elements of R&D screen: you can add custom hooks on them and even gain access to GUI panels and buttons, haven't tried that with the part unlocking stuff though, but it seems to be doable.

Never said it was necessary. It all depends on the depth of the changes brought to the tech tree. If the goal is to have a completely new format, the old architecture could be completely obsolete, so bending it to do what you're looking for could be quite complex when you could write a dedicated system yourself.

[Yorou]

In my opinion, the old tech tree has to go. Parts will not be unlocked with science points and they won't be made available in the same fashion... We'll see when I'm ready to share it all. 

[Ser]

Yorou, I've thought about something like that too: changing the way of how parts are unlocked. Look at Kerbal Construction Time mod. I haven't used it myself but as I recall its author mentioned that "parts won't be unlocked momentarily", so it seems like KCT does something with part unlocking process.

stupid_chris, your solution has one great downside: there's a high probability that all other R&D mods' behaviors will be destroyed unless you do it very carefully and really care of replacing the stock system in compatible way. Replacing event hooks on components does that too but there's at least a chance to find some conventions to avoid interference.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ser

[njmksr]

On 2/2/2016 at 1:52 PM, Yorou said:

I would like your opinion on this. 

 

I, like many others, find the career mode lacking. I have been thinking about how to improve for a couple of months now and an idea has coalesced in my mind. I think it's a great overhaul to the current career system and would love to be able to mod it in game. 

 

So here's where I need your opinion. Considering I have almost no programming knowledge, is it realistic for me to even try?

 

For my idea, I think I would need to learn how to manipulate contracts, how to change certain parts functionality and how to modify the parts unlock screen. 

 

I'm sure this is a bit vague to you guys, but I am unsure how to share my idea. 

This is the sort of place that I started from. My advice: USE THE WIKI. There is tons of documentation on it.

[stupid_chris]

On 2/5/2016 at 3:52 AM, Ser said:

stupid_chris, your solution has one great downside: there's a high probability that all other R&D mods' behaviors will be destroyed unless you do it very carefully and really care of replacing the stock system in compatible way. Replacing event hooks on components does that too but there's at least a chance to find some conventions to avoid interference.

Seeing the way he approaches thing, that does not sound like something that would be intended for use with other mods. If you want to completely change the way R&D worksand want to throw away the stock tree, im not seeing a reason to force yourself into compatibility with mods that deal with a rendered obsolete system. I'm all for inter mod compatibility, but sometimes its out of scope

[pellinor]

On 3.2.2016 at 4:59 PM, Yorou said:

I'm curious, should I keep my ideas secret or is the modding community respectful of other's idea? I mean, would my concept be stolen?

Most people here make things just because they want them in their own game. Also there usually are far mode ideas looking for a modder than modders looking for ideas. If someone 'steals' my idea it basically means that I will get the result without having to work for it.