Kerbal planet simulator

[idoporges]

there should be a simulator to help us run experiments!
for example - i would like to know if the craft i made can escape Eve, i would just go to the simulator which will simulate my craft on the surface of a planet with the same stats as Eve so i could test my craft.
the planet simulated is not meant to be interesting or fun and therefore should be completely spherical, bland, colorless (one monotone color) and without any features.

optional: multi planet simulation to experiment whether my craft can get from body A to body B, or to practice such a thing before a mission.
optional: simulator only availible once science building is fully upgraded
optional: option to start the simulation with the craft in the body`s orbit specified by the user (ap and pe inputs must be above atmosphere

 

my programming knowledge is limited but it seems to me the tools for creating such a thing already exist in-game

[AbacusWizard]

That would actually be really useful--maybe the simulator could have a dial-a-planet feature allowing the user to choose the sim-planet's mass, radius, and atmospheric characteristics (depth, pressure at sea level, presence or absence of oxygen), or select presets matching the various planets already in the solar system.

[Djolox]

Some kind of VR Kerbal Technology?! Approve.

[Matt77]

I really like this idea. Perhaps scanned planets could be more / fully detailed.

It seems fairly simple to implement too.

 

[Pthigrivi]

Well this has come up many times. The thing is Kerbal already is a simulator. You can already revert, so the consequences for failure are kind of moot as well. What I understand is the desire to guesstimate whether a craft can return to orbit on another body without the somewhat laborious task of repeatedly launching to Kerbin orbit, transferring, landing, etc. To me a better solution to this would be (drumroll) adding a dV calculator. If they're afraid of information overload or not pushing players to experiment with designs first the calculator could have an unlock mechanic, becoming available on the first building upgrade and/or unlocking TWR and dV calcs for different worlds only after sending a probe to do experiments there first.

[Enceos]

Why not just use HyperEdit?

[Warzouz]

Yes, I don't feel this is a needed feature. Sandbox mod + Hyperedit does do the trick. As said, KSP is a simulation.

A more gameplay feature would be to be able to prepare the mission in advance (setting nodes, checking for transfer windows, select landing site...)

[idoporges]

10 hours ago, Enceos said:

Why not just use HyperEdit?

because teleporting to another planet is basically cheating and ruins the fun, the simulation`s planet would be bland
 

 

10 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Well this has come up many times. The thing is Kerbal already is a simulator. You can already revert, so the consequences for failure are kind of moot as well. What I understand is the desire to guesstimate whether a craft can return to orbit on another body without the somewhat laborious task of repeatedly launching to Kerbin orbit, transferring, landing, etc. To me a better solution to this would be (drumroll) adding a dV calculator. If they're afraid of information overload or not pushing players to experiment with designs first the calculator could have an unlock mechanic, becoming available on the first building upgrade and/or unlocking TWR and dV calcs for different worlds only after sending a probe to do experiments there first.

calculated gameplay is not desired by everyone, others prefer experimentation.
also the Dv wont calculate alot of features, for example the different efficiency for engines inside the atmosphere or SSTO`s on laythe or normal planes on any other planet with an atmosphere or aerobreaking limits etc... i just came up with almost a dozen uses i didnt realize existed

 

 

and besides the best part is that it should be a really trivial feature to add

Edited February 19, 2016 by idoporges

[Enceos]

The Kerbal Construction Time mod has a built-in simulation feature for bodies you have reached.

[Warzouz]

9 hours ago, idoporges said:

because teleporting to another planet is basically cheating and ruins the fun, the simulation`s planet would be bland

Not if you assume it's a simulation. A simulation don't have to start by the launch of the vehicle. Of course it's subjective, but using HE is not different than having a simulation, or even testing in sandbox.

[idoporges]

1 hour ago, Warzouz said:

Not if you assume it's a simulation. A simulation don't have to start by the launch of the vehicle. Of course it's subjective, but using HE is not different than having a simulation, or even testing in sandbox.

you completely missed the point... the point is that if you can simulate or teleport to Laythe for example then actually going to Laythe is way less fun or rewarding, the simulation wont simulate laythe per say but a huge chunk of atmospheric rock which is like Laythe only really uninteresting (imagine a monotone green ball with no sea)

[Gauga159]

I too have very little programing experiece (exept some python and BASIC) so yeah i look at your sugestion and think is it really possible? so a few updates after it's implementation will be updates

[Bloody_looser]

Idea is kinda ok. But if we could simulate a KSC on a simulated planet, and then kinda simulate a planet in a simulated KSC on a simulated planet and then simulate a rocket in a simulated KSC on a simulated planet and then kinda fly to the simulated planet, which we've simulated in a simulated KSC...

That would be the real stuff.

[juanml82]

On 19/2/2016 at 10:27 AM, Pthigrivi said:

Well this has come up many times. The thing is Kerbal already is a simulator. You can already revert, so the consequences for failure are kind of moot as well. What I understand is the desire to guesstimate whether a craft can return to orbit on another body without the somewhat laborious task of repeatedly launching to Kerbin orbit, transferring, landing, etc. To me a better solution to this would be (drumroll) adding a dV calculator. If they're afraid of information overload or not pushing players to experiment with designs first the calculator could have an unlock mechanic, becoming available on the first building upgrade and/or unlocking TWR and dV calcs for different worlds only after sending a probe to do experiments there first.

Yeah, but if you want to design an Eve lander you need:

KER, which should be stock

Design the ship

Design the booster to put it in LKO

Test booster and ship to check if it can make it to LKO, and with how much fuel

Hyperedit the ship, without boosters, to Low Eve Orbit and try to land it, to check if it survives reentry

Test if it can reach LEO from Eve's surface, for which you need: have the ship, without boosters, in the VAB. Hyperedit it to LEO. Hyperedit it to a suitable landing location on Eve's surface. Test it. See it fail for whatever reasons. Go back to the Space Center. Enter the VAB. Rinse and repeat.

 

This is the kind of scenarios in which Squad's original idea of testing ships by flying them doesn't work, it's just too time consuming to do it without mods, and even with mods there are plenty of scenes changes.

A simulate button would let you design the Eve lander (hopefully with a stock KER so you can keep an eye on TWR and dV) by simply pressing a button from the VAB: finish retouching the lander, press the simulate button, enter the ASL altitude where you want to launch, and you test if your lander makes it to LEO. Or you test if it can survive reentry. And once it fails, you're quickly back into the VAB to continue refining the design.

And keeping it with bland graphics makes sure it doesn't replace actually going there.

Edited February 20, 2016 by juanml82

[Matuchkin]

A very exceptionally nice addition to all the previous threads on simulation- deserves a thread for itself.

Anyway, I do believe this is a widely wanted concept around the forums, so, now that I witnessed over 13 threads with this topic, I ask @SQUAD, @KasperVld, or any other member of the team to reply to this thread with their thoughts/ ideas/ considerations/ progress reports.

[Speadge]

I second this idea.

As people said, its a simulation game. But its aiming for beeing more than just a space-sim, but a "getting into space and exploring experience"-sim.
The core of the career mode is to gain money and science to be able to reach even further - with the goal to give you the experience of a real space program building up.

So it might be really game breaking for ppl if thex "cheat" their way to a destination to test their crafts their so they are able to use them after they "really" flew there. Thats really odd.

To add some feeling to the game it would be great to have at least kind of virtual test-chamber for the kerbals to add atmosphere and gravity to a design and test it. You can even add some realistic parts into it by needing some science experience done (i.e. on / around Eve) to have gravitional /atm data available for tests.

That would ppl need to fly to eve with a probe, get some data, send them back and design the crafts aith that data. Adds more "exploring" to the game and might be more satisfying if it works in "real" after all those data grinding like it did in a virtual simulation.

Just imagine ppl playing "ironman" (no reverts / quickloads). They want the real fun... and they should be able to use their gathered science for preparing best for Eve & else instead of needing to try dozens of times including the whole flight to the bodies.

So my call: kind of "basic" 2d sim (see all those mobile apps) ingame that can use grav/atm data of a body i already scanned to test my designs.
One can still make mistakesin the design/actula flight, but at least you can check if it MIGHT work the waay u thought about it.
 

 

[Pthigrivi]

4 hours ago, juanml82 said:

This is the kind of scenarios in which Squad's original idea of testing ships by flying them doesn't work, it's just too time consuming to do it without mods, and even with mods there are plenty of scenes changes.

 

I actually totally agree on the overly time-consuming nature of the current set up. I also think there's value in squad's vision of learning by experimentation and trial and error. Its a question of balance. Of course what you want is to launch your ship and know %100 that its going to work, but where's the tension in that? Why bother even flying the mission? If there's no risk you lose the sense of reward. You lose that white-knuckle feeling of 'oh god is it going to work or not?' and then 'eff yeah I did it!' If you're trying and failing over and over for minor reasons, I agree, that gets pretty tedious and dispiriting, which is why I think there's a strong case for a staged progression giving timely, useful information to players like dV in the VAB before they go interplanetary. Players also aught to learn to send lower-cost probes early to test the waters and learn what they're up against on different planets before sending a mother ship. We should be learning the principles of design, and then applying those principles to bigger, more ambitious missions. We should be encouraged to do text rigs, running a design through its paces before sending them to other worlds. Between double-checking staging and looking at TWR and dV info in the VAB with a little bit of padding a player should be able to gather a reasonable level of confidence that their lander will work without removing all risk and spoiling the excitement of the actual mission.