WW2 BAD-T 2 - BDA AI Dogfight Tournament [SEMIFINALS]

[Pds314]

On 4/14/2016 at 11:48 AM, ferram4 said:

For the supercharger settings there are only two curves, one which is a single-stage supercharger that has a crit alt around ~4.5km, and one which is a two-stage supercharger with crit alts around 1.5km and 6km and a crossover near 2km (I think).  The main difference is that the single-stage will reach a lower altitude before its power starts to drop off, while the two-stage can reach a higher altitude before it finally completely runs out of breath, but it pays for it with a lower-altitude loss in power.

And as for the plane designs and AI settings, you people are insane with your high settings.  Seriously, your designs are all so much better than they're performing because they can't keep their guns on target.  Which I suppose gives realistic hit numbers but not for the right reasons.

Yeah. Mine ended up getting shot down 4 times without getting a kill. It was simultaneously undermaneuverable and inaccurate. It would fly by, shoot, miss, and then get followed. At one point the opponent actually caught up with it because it was being inefficient. This is despite it having better TWR and maximum speed.

 

Problem is if I increase the maneuverability, it becomes unstable. It being an almost pure B&Z fighter, it needs to stay on target AND retain energy well.

(also there's the not small issue of increasing maneuverability leading to flailing, which can cause crashes.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by Pds314

[tetryds]

@Pds314 That was the problem, you can't do both if you want to do one of them well, your design would work much better as a turnfighter because it's so light.

[Pds314]

1 minute ago, tetryds said:

@Pds314 That was the problem, you can't do both if you want to do one of them well, your design would work much better as a turnfighter because it's so light.

Should probably have given it "Big and Swoopy" wings rather than "good" wings. Lol. 

[Van Disaster]

One of the avoidance modes also tries to dump energy ( you can see it attempt to use airbrakes, and it cuts the throttle ) - the only way around that is to avoid triggering that mode, which I'm not sure is possible just by tuning.

I've yet to build a B&Z craft that can run away from my turnfighters :S

[Dwerto]

Unfortunately I realized much too late that my plane has way too much rudder deflection. 

[Pds314]

21 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

One of the avoidance modes also tries to dump energy ( you can see it attempt to use airbrakes, and it cuts the throttle ) - the only way around that is to avoid triggering that mode, which I'm not sure is possible just by tuning.

I've yet to build a B&Z craft that can run away from my turnfighters :S

Mine usually can escape due to its absurd TWR and thrust, the problem is that the AI sometimes does some bizarre things that slow it down, like flying straight up or excessively wobbling and cutting the engines. The main advantages it has are wasted when it needlessly cuts the throttle.

[Van Disaster]

1 hour ago, Pds314 said:

Mine usually can escape due to its absurd TWR and thrust, the problem is that the AI sometimes does some bizarre things that slow it down, like flying straight up or excessively wobbling and cutting the engines. The main advantages it has are wasted when it needlessly cuts the throttle.

That is probably the avoidance mode - you can see what it's doing if you turn the debug labels on. The flying straight should be called "Goldfish mode" I suppose [Edit: yes, it does sometimes cut throttle when it's not avoiding, now I think about it]

Edited April 15, 2016 by Van Disaster

[BahamutoD]

Hmm, the only times it should drop throttle is if it's exceeding max speed, or trying to stay behind a target (which is more rare now that ferram4 has added BnZ behavior).  IIRC

Of course, all of the behaviors are works in progress

Edited April 15, 2016 by BahamutoD

[DoctorDavinci]

So the 3rd battle of the BAD T2 Second Tier has been uploaded ... You can watch the video HERE

@Pds314 - My suggestion is to balance your fuel load as well as your ammo so that your CoM doesn't shift on you as your craft uses fuel and bullets. If you center the CoM of these resources right on the CoM of your craft then the balance will stay the same regardless of how much resources have been used.

[ferram4]

There is one other case where it will drop throttle, and that's when it's already pretty screwed with another plane very close behind it and the only thing that it can hope to do is force and overshoot.  If the plane is in that situation it's pretty dead no matter what unless its wingman comes in to save it.

A lot of the favoring of turnfighters here is because the engines are still quite a bit more powerful than they should be.  Thrust doesn't quite fall off fast enough with increasing speed, and the thrust on the runway is somewhere around 1.5x-2x what the very best WWII engines could put out... running on settings with either water or MW50 injection that the engines really aren't happy about maintaining for too much time.

[Pds314]

27 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

There is one other case where it will drop throttle, and that's when it's already pretty screwed with another plane very close behind it and the only thing that it can hope to do is force and overshoot.  If the plane is in that situation it's pretty dead no matter what unless its wingman comes in to save it.

A lot of the favoring of turnfighters here is because the engines are still quite a bit more powerful than they should be.  Thrust doesn't quite fall off fast enough with increasing speed, and the thrust on the runway is somewhere around 1.5x-2x what the very best WWII engines could put out... running on settings with either water or MW50 injection that the engines really aren't happy about maintaining for too much time.

I remember measuring the effective engine power and the B40-S has like 3000+ HP at 500-something mph, assuming the velocity is the same as the exhaust velocity.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Pds314

[Van Disaster]

4 hours ago, BahamutoD said:

Hmm, the only times it should drop throttle is if it's exceeding max speed, or trying to stay behind a target (which is more rare now that ferram4 has added BnZ behavior).  IIRC

Of course, all of the behaviors are works in progress

Noticed it in a climb, mostly - I'm sure I'll get some vid evidence with labels on eventually. Not common, so not a huge deal. Forgetting there's an enemy behind is a bigger deal also occasionally rocking the wings instead of committing to a turn which I can imagine a couple of reasons for.

Here's the next tuning example: I raised steer damping a little which as it suggests removed a bit of ( long period ) oscillation - but that also made the pilot more reluctant to turn hard, so I had to raise steer factor again, which was somewhat back to where we started. Raising steer damping slightly once again got us to here, which is 4.7/2.5. Still a bit wobbly, but note how little ammunition is used.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9pIwDhdqA

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Van Disaster

[tetryds]

More battles incoming!

Already uploading, should be up soon(tm).

[MarvinCZ]

And the battles are up!

First:

Spoiler

 

And second:

Spoiler

 

 

My battle went better than I even hoped.

Edited April 16, 2016 by MarvinCZ

[ferram4]

I don't think the Tytonid pilots pulled enough aileron rolls.  I am disappointed in them.  I like how the only loss I took was Jeb panic-evading into the ground, I suppose I'll have to look into making that less likely to happen.  I mean, it's realistic and is even a common occurrence in War Thunder, but it's frustrating when it happens.

Also, nice editing with the music.  It worked very well.

[DoctorDavinci]

@ferram4 - That asymmetrical monster of yours works quite well, love the design and how she fly's

[tetryds]

@LtColTeddyBear, your airplane broke the rules, exceeding the amount of points, which would be fine, because I simply removed weapons from it.

The problem is that no matter how hard I try, it fails to take off, these two factors force me to disqualify your airplane.

CompetitionCraft5-2 will be fighting the dummy on his match instead, the dummy will be used to fulfill the gap wins the match.

Soon I will have run all the battles for round 1, then I will edit and release them with time

No, I won't tell you if you won just yet.

[pyrosheep]

If anyone wants to see my craft they are welcome to now that the compition is well under way.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6oqgkrgc0tminmj/F-1%20Cobra%20A.craft?dl=0

[tetryds]

Surprise, surprise!

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I have a lot to say about all of these battles, I will just let you watch them first.

[Van Disaster]

Hah, the first match of the second video, that has to be the luckiest - shoot one craft & it's wingman flies through the bullet hail? what's the odds.

That SkyRebal is quite a craft.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Van Disaster

[DoctorDavinci]

Just fantastic is all I can say ... Many of these craft can turn on a dime and keep their momentum which is just amazing

I guess if my Bad Company manages to move forward it will have it's work cut out for it

[gridghost]

Excellent fights and really nice and interesting fighters. 

[MarvinCZ]

Yes, excellent. The second was especially well matched. And I loved how the UpperProp lured the enemies into an ambush in its first battle.

Edited April 17, 2016 by MarvinCZ

[tetryds]

The UpperProp surprised me, I did put some work on it but I would never expect it to be able to win.

Also, with 2x 30mm it's the most heavily armored airplane on the tournament.

Maybe it gets to round 3, that would be cool.

Imagine if it wins the tournament, lewl.

[Wjolcz]

The battles are soooooooo entertaining to watch! And you release them faster than I expected too!

Great planes everybody!