[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

[smotheredrun]

@Avalon304 , I have done another batch of flights with both shuttles in 1.1.3.  Not reporting a complaint or issue here.  In fact the opposite.  The Mini does consistently spin out on landing.  Since I typically use both orbiters for station building and experiment delivery (Station Science mod is a staple for me now), I have been experimenting with different set ups.  Specifically regarding the Mini, adding one of the small B9 radial RCS tanks on both wings seems to let me roll down the runway maybe a second or two longer if I had any fuel left in them.  Placing 2 additional airbrakes (stock or small B9, but I prefer the look of the B9) on either side for the rear fuselage has increased my deceleration and heat management on retry too.  I think that the extra airbrakes may contribute to the spin outs as the one time I forgot to deploy them I didn't spin out until about 10m/s velocity on the runway.  I'll test the Mini using the airbrakes on approach and retracting all of them once I am over the runway/ground.

So far, all of the spin outs begin with the nose lifting at about 10-30m/s (sorry for the wide range.... I'll see if I can narrow that speed down a bit).  Upon input of correction, the nose drops (good) and then the vehicle seems to lurch to one side, usually to the right (bad).  Then if I correct further, the vehicle starts down the "weighty shifty back and forthy" spiral of rapid unplanned partial disassembly.  Should I not correct, SAS appears to try and same result (more explosions - GOOD!).  Turn off SAS and not correct.... bigger and better explosions seem to follow (better!!).....  More Kerbals required for pilot training...  Will test further.

It is my understanding based upon a post several pages back that the flaps don't have any effect on aerodynamics/control post 1.0.5?

I have noticed that the Mini seems to handle a little better in atmospheric descent (3 flights recently) with around 120-150 units of LF in the vehicle.  Decelerating sooner (referring to the .pdf guide supplied with the mod) over the shores or ocean instead of the mountain range near the desert (returning a Station Science experiment module) allows for a colder descent and you can always use that extra fuel to get you to the runway if you end up short.  For that part, I have been using the 2 OMS with the gimbal action group used to decrease the angle and the centre SSME with its gimbal on the default launch setting.  This seems to help both orbiters handle better under power settings of up to approx 75%.  Any higher and both shuttles have stability issues of the jet powered brick kind. 

To be honest, I have grown fond of the buggy wheels on the Mini, seems akin to test flying a first generation craft, then based upon testing (krashing), an improved version (the Super 25) is built and tested/used/krashed as the mainline vehicle.  With the spin outs on the runway/grass, the Mini is a reliable and slightly reusable launch vehicle.

Not sure if any of this babbling helps with your work, but there it is.

Edited September 19, 2016 by smotheredrun

[Raptor22]

I've found a use for the tanks that will help with either the current remote tech or the new system coming up in 1.2. All of the tanks have one bottom node. So, I strap a probe core, some batteries, RTGs, and an antenna, and voila! What used to be a useless piece of space junk is now a functioning relay satellite!

Honestly, I do love how customizable this is. While there are only a few parts specially made for certain purposes, there are times where you can add your own twist. For example, I made an SSTO version of the Super25 by putting two intakes (mirror geometry) in-between the two tail fins, then replacing the main SSE engines with R.A.P.I.E.R. engines, while keeping the OMS engines for low-power burns. I add drop-tanks on the sides of the fuselage for ascent, and by using the offset tool and tweakscale I placed a tank inside the main tank area (not very realistic, but it's KSP. If you could *once, a while ago* climb to the moon with a ladder and a bug, then anything is possible) to act as both reserve fuel, and for the fuel for landing. When using powered flight, they fly remarkably well. The Super25 is surprisingly nimble for its size. I've made bombers, fighters, passenger jets, SSTA's (with the help of some more quantum entan-*AHEM* offsetting), and more. The station parts are also VERY useful. 

Not only that, but it's just that everything is so beautiful! I'm amazed by the attention to detail, especially with the EX, where @helldiver - please correct me if I am wrong - wants to model all of the interior sections. That means the fuel lines, hydraulics, etc. 
Although, that might also lead to some more lag. We'll just have to wait and see how everything turns out.

Speaking of the EX, @helldiver, how's it shaping up? 

(of course with my ADHD I just now realized that I already asked that question. Oh well, perhaps he missed it, or perhaps he hasn't been on. God, I feel like I have the memory of a 50-year-old when I'm only 15, thanks to a little LIVING HELL called Attention Deficiency Hyperactive Disorder, also known as: "I can't get any work done because I get distracted every 5 seconds! WHOOPEE!")

[Machman]

I just found this mod again, but for some reason, Spacedock is giving me bad .zip files. is this happening for anyone else? and its not just this mod either.

im using the latest Chrome browser on a 64bit Win10 laptop if that helps

 

[Avalon304]

32 minutes ago, Machman said:

I just found this mod again, but for some reason, Spacedock is giving me bad .zip files. is this happening for anyone else? and its not just this mod either.

im using the latest Chrome browser on a 64bit Win10 laptop if that helps

 

Right now, it appears that Spacedock is not up, so I cant test to see whats happening.

 

EDIT: It looks like the dev of SpaceDock is currently on vacation and wont be back for another week, but has been working intermittently on the site. There is a link on the SpaceDock thread, here on the forums that you can use to get mods off the site. Im not linking it here since they want it to be used sparingly, so go find it there.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Avalon304

[Capt. Hunt]

I've been out of the game for a while and recently redownloaded everything.  Are the alternate textures no longer supported?  I can't find the link to them in the OP.

[Machman]

14 minutes ago, Avalon304 said:

Right now, it appears that Spacedock is not up, so I cant test to see whats happening.

 

EDIT: It looks like the dev of SpaceDock is currently on vacation and wont be back for another week, but has been working intermittently on the site. There is a link on the SpaceDock thread, here on the forums that you can use to get mods off the site. Im not linking it here since they want it to be used sparingly, so go find it there.

I got the super 25 downloaded without error, using  Ubuntu 16.04LTS on a franken-Laptop originating from 2007. (i keep it around to fix issues windows cant)

the Dauntless is still corrupted though, 7zip says "Data error : KSO/parts/kerbin_orbiter_norm_Nrm.dds" doesnt matter how or what i download it with, any advice, and i will check out that thread Avalon304

[Avalon304]

45 minutes ago, Capt. Hunt said:

I've been out of the game for a while and recently redownloaded everything.  Are the alternate textures no longer supported?  I can't find the link to them in the OP.

You can use them if you have them. Im not sure why they werent relinked to.

[Capt. Hunt]

ok, so I found the textures, but I guess I'm a little rusty with the Module coding. The buttons appear in the right click menu, but then the texture doesn't change:

MODULE
  {
		name = FStextureSwitch2
		moduleID = 0
		objectNames = KSO_Cabin
		textureRootFolder = KSO/Parts/
		textureNames = kerbin_orbiter;altnames/adamant;altnames/dauntless;altnames/tenacious
		mapNames = KSOS_orbiter_Norm_NRM
		nextButtonText = Next Paint Job
		prevButtonText = Previous Paint Job
        statusText = Current Paint Job
		showPreviousButton = false
		useFuelSwitchModule = false
		repaintableEVA = true
		switchableInFlight = false
  }

 

[Avalon304]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hunt said:

ok, so I found the textures, but I guess I'm a little rusty with the Module coding. The buttons appear in the right click menu, but then the texture doesn't change:

MODULE
  {
		name = FStextureSwitch2
		moduleID = 0
		objectNames = KSO_Cabin
		textureRootFolder = KSO/Parts/
		textureNames = kerbin_orbiter;altnames/adamant;altnames/dauntless;altnames/tenacious
		mapNames = KSOS_orbiter_Norm_NRM
		nextButtonText = Next Paint Job
		prevButtonText = Previous Paint Job
        statusText = Current Paint Job
		showPreviousButton = false
		useFuelSwitchModule = false
		repaintableEVA = true
		switchableInFlight = false
  }

 

Where do you have the alternate textures? they should be in KSO/Parts/altnames with those file names (adamant, dauntless and tenacious) and then you use the blank texture as kerbin_orbiter in the Parts folder.

[Capt. Hunt]

yeah, that's where i put them

[Avalon304]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Hunt said:

yeah, that's where i put them

Then I cant help you as that should work perfectly.

 

Are you using the included texture switch configs (I think theyre located in KSO/Configs) or is that somewhere else?

[Capt. Hunt]

there aren't any included texture switch configs that I've found

[Avalon304]

On 9/22/2016 at 7:06 PM, Capt. Hunt said:

there aren't any included texture switch configs that I've found

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Where are you getting that texture switch config you posted?

[Capt. Hunt]

I wrote it myself using the code from a couple other mods that use it as examples.

[Avalon304]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hunt said:

I wrote it myself using the code from a couple other mods that use it as examples.

I could swear we had included bundled texture switch configs (or theyre built into the KSO command modules), but if we havent and if they arent, can you try these:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14006682/Texture Switch.zip

 

Those are the base configs that I use. Im gonna make sure Nazari has a copy of them so he can potentially distribute them with the next version. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Avalon304

[Capt. Hunt]

thanks, that seems to have worked.  And thank you for including the wing switch too, that was the next step once I figured these out.

[Avalon304]

19 minutes ago, Capt. Hunt said:

thanks, that seems to have worked.  And thank you for including the wing switch too, that was the next step once I figured these out.

No problem. Glad it worked!

[Capt. Hunt]

On 9/19/2016 at 9:46 AM, smotheredrun said:

@Avalon304 , I have done another batch of flights with both shuttles in 1.1.3.  Not reporting a complaint or issue here.  In fact the opposite.  The Mini does consistently spin out on landing.  Since I typically use both orbiters for station building and experiment delivery (Station Science mod is a staple for me now), I have been experimenting with different set ups.  Specifically regarding the Mini, adding one of the small B9 radial RCS tanks on both wings seems to let me roll down the runway maybe a second or two longer if I had any fuel left in them.  Placing 2 additional airbrakes (stock or small B9, but I prefer the look of the B9) on either side for the rear fuselage has increased my deceleration and heat management on retry too.  I think that the extra airbrakes may contribute to the spin outs as the one time I forgot to deploy them I didn't spin out until about 10m/s velocity on the runway.  I'll test the Mini using the airbrakes on approach and retracting all of them once I am over the runway/ground.

So far, all of the spin outs begin with the nose lifting at about 10-30m/s (sorry for the wide range.... I'll see if I can narrow that speed down a bit).  Upon input of correction, the nose drops (good) and then the vehicle seems to lurch to one side, usually to the right (bad).  Then if I correct further, the vehicle starts down the "weighty shifty back and forthy" spiral of rapid unplanned partial disassembly.  Should I not correct, SAS appears to try and same result (more explosions - GOOD!).  Turn off SAS and not correct.... bigger and better explosions seem to follow (better!!).....  More Kerbals required for pilot training...  Will test further.

It is my understanding based upon a post several pages back that the flaps don't have any effect on aerodynamics/control post 1.0.5?

I have noticed that the Mini seems to handle a little better in atmospheric descent (3 flights recently) with around 120-150 units of LF in the vehicle.  Decelerating sooner (referring to the .pdf guide supplied with the mod) over the shores or ocean instead of the mountain range near the desert (returning a Station Science experiment module) allows for a colder descent and you can always use that extra fuel to get you to the runway if you end up short.  For that part, I have been using the 2 OMS with the gimbal action group used to decrease the angle and the centre SSME with its gimbal on the default launch setting.  This seems to help both orbiters handle better under power settings of up to approx 75%.  Any higher and both shuttles have stability issues of the jet powered brick kind. 

To be honest, I have grown fond of the buggy wheels on the Mini, seems akin to test flying a first generation craft, then based upon testing (krashing), an improved version (the Super 25) is built and tested/used/krashed as the mainline vehicle.  With the spin outs on the runway/grass, the Mini is a reliable and slightly reusable launch vehicle.

Not sure if any of this babbling helps with your work, but there it is.

I haven't had the vehicle exit controlled flight regimens very often, but then again I haven't added any extra airbrakes, so that might have something to do with it, you might try disabling the pitch/roll/yaw controls on the brakes so they only extend when you need them.  I get by just fine with only the included airbrake in the tail section, I just pop that and occasionally flare to bleed off excess heat.  I also tend to land hot, in excess of 100 m/s at touchdown, which keeps the ship stable longer.  The only major modification I make to the mini is a realchute cone, on the stack node between the SSMEs, set to drag mode.  That usually will slow me down safely.  If you're using mechjeb, I've noticed smoother reentries if you turn off SmartASS and switch on the stock SAS below 50km.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Capt. Hunt

[Capt. Hunt]

just noticed something else, for some reason I can't take science data from the Greenlab via EVA.

[Raptor22]

@Capt. Hunt Hm. That's weird. I haven't noticed that in my version. What mods do you have other than KSO and its dependencies? I believe that you mentioned having Mechjeb.

 

Also, @Avalon304, I was wanting to post a thread for some missions that I will be doing with the KSO shuttles. Is it alright if I post pictures of it?

(I'm asking this both so that I don't tick you off and so that I can defend myself when the mods inevitably harangue me about it not being my mod, etc.)

I'll give all credit where due, and a link back here.

[Raptor22]

By the way, @Capt. Hunt, your ribbons are arranged incorrectly. Since you have 7 ribbons, you should have two rows of three ribbons, with a third row having a single ribbon on top. Your first ribbon is in the bottom-left corner (viewed from front), and your 7th at the top.

(sorry about that. JROTC kind of causes OCD)

It would look something like this:

 ______________________

 |_____________________|

 

My ascii/table art is terrible, but I think you get the idea.

[Avalon304]

15 minutes ago, Raptor22 said:

Also, @Avalon304, I was wanting to post a thread for some missions that I will be doing with the KSO shuttles. Is it alright if I post pictures of it?

(I'm asking this both so that I don't tick you off and so that I can defend myself when the mods inevitably harangue me about it not being my mod, etc.)

I'll give all credit where due, and a link back here.

You dont have to ask to post pictures of missions you run with the mod (or any mod)... I mean... as far as Im aware theres no rule saying you have to... so long as youre posting it where ever threads like that are supposed to be.

[Capt. Hunt]

Asside from maybe KIS/KAS, I can't think of any mods that would effect it, and I can take experiments from other parts just fine.

I also checked the module script, and it should allow it, I'll try increasing the interaction range, maybe the default 1.2 units is too short.

[Raptor22]

On 9/29/2016 at 7:53 PM, Avalon304 said:

You dont have to ask to post pictures of missions you run with the mod (or any mod)... I mean... as far as Im aware theres no rule saying you have to... so long as youre posting it where ever threads like that are supposed to be.

Thanks!

[DStaal]

So, since I just launched a station based on these station parts (and I have a crew transporter that I have about 5 of running around the Kerbin SOI that uses them) I have a couple of questions.    One: Will anything be needed for updates to 1.2?  I'm guessing not much if anything, as it's mostly parts, but I wanted to be sure.  Secondly: If I were to develop some USI-LS patches for these parts, would you like them sent someplace?