Generation ships? That means......

[Buster Charlie]

22 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

After a long long mission my lander finally arrived on Eeloo. Anxiously I select the Hitchiker and click "transfer crew" to decide who is the lucky Kerbal to go first to the airlock (I always use a Mk I lander can as airlock). Will it be Jeb or Val? Jeb or Val? Jeb or...

Frotgard? Flembob? Snidgard? I don't remember putting those in my ship?!

Hehehehe. That's certainly a new feature for 1.2

10 minutes ago, SpaceCommunism said:

actually this is something that has come up in mars one that it is likely that humans cannot reproduce in space or on mars (I think related to gravity and radiation). I suspect that we will likely have technology to produce artificial wombs and probably use genetic engineering within a few decades, but it is genuinely improbable that we will be will be able to colonize without beating these limitations somehow. The same would logically be true for the kerbals.

Also there are many theories on the kerbals being colonists or products of genetic engineering. I'm not going to throw any darts at that board, but some people have brought up that the kerbals are all green, I just wanted to point out that this is not necessarily true, if in the 1970s you looked at nasa (especially the astronauts) you would have thought all the earthlings were white. It could simply be that the racial dynamics on kerblin are such that the green class of kerbals are the dominant class and that there are purple and blue kerbals that are not in the space program because of their disparate socioeconomic backgrounds.

Oh Jeeze that's just what we need in KSP.

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Buster Charlie

[Vanamonde]

Please do not get into reproduction, race, and politics on our space game forum. It never ends well. 

[Provisional Name 12]

Something we don't really know is how long a kerbal is supposed to live then or how resilient they are. Is 250 years too long?

I definitely think it would be easy to make an age mod and implement things like cryo storage of some kind. Though I am unsure if it is actually a realistic technology.

[Temstar]

8 hours ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

I figure you'd send frozen embryos along with the ship. However Kerbals reproduce, it probably doesn't work well in space.

I don't think it will be a big issue. Long duration flights need spin generated gravity anyway to keep the crew healthy so they can just do the business like nature intended, no need to resort to frozen fertilized eggs (unless it's for genetic diversity issues) or iron womb.

The problem is: you can select the first generation to all have "the right stuff" and be capable astronauts, but how do you ensure subsequent generations will be up to the job of crewing a generation ship? What if they want to turn the ship around?

[numerobis]

They can't turn the ship around, so that problem is fixed.

You'll also need a large source population to avoid ending up like the Hapsburgs. In the original Civilization (or was it Civ2) you sent populations of 10-40k off to alpha Centauri, which is about the population bottleneck we seem to detect in humans circa 60kya.

Unless Kerbal genetics is vastly different, that's the scale of population you need to send to get a minimally viable colony: thousands, probably tens of thousands of individuals.

You're gonna need a big rocket.

[Kokanee]

All of this talk of Kerbal mating rituals reminds me of this old muppet show clip;

 

 

[Buster Charlie]

14 minutes ago, numerobis said:

They can't turn the ship around, so that problem is fixed.

You'll also need a large source population to avoid ending up like the Hapsburgs. In the original Civilization (or was it Civ2) you sent populations of 10-40k off to alpha Centauri, which is about the population bottleneck we seem to detect in humans circa 60kya.

Unless Kerbal genetics is vastly different, that's the scale of population you need to send to get a minimally viable colony: thousands, probably tens of thousands of individuals.

You're gonna need a big rocket.

WHat if you're not doing the whole ship at once, or even more evil it's a "collect science and return to KSP" mission?

This article suggests you could do as little as 160 to 80 people, YMMV, and of course we really don't know about KSP lifespan or whatnot.

[numerobis]

If you're going there and back, sure, just a few dozen will do. But that feels unlikely to me: why would the crew even want to go back to somewhere they haven't been in generations? How likely is it that the people back home would even maintain funding for this mission over a timespan of centuries?

I'm pretty sure if you're going to do a trip of that duration, you need to make sure you've sent a forever village.

Edited February 25, 2016 by numerobis

[Buster Charlie]

1 minute ago, numerobis said:

If you're going there and back, sure, just a few dozen will do. But that feels unlikely to me: why would the crew even want to go back to somewhere they haven't been in generations? How likely is it that the people back home would even maintain funding for this mission over a timespan of centuries?

I'm pretty sure if you're going to do a trip of that duration, you need to make sure you've sent a forever village.

I'm talking about, in specific, Kerbal Space Program, the video game. I'm taking the logical conclusion of the mods people have done, to the extreme.

 

You have different solar systems, you have life support and habitation, why not deal with the last issue of long journeys, mortality? 

 

The video game aspect is literally, Collect science, return to KSC for reward. In real life I doubt you'd do that. In a game, you might. After all people sheepishly brag about leaving kerbals stranded indefinitely due to a failed mission, so  like the movie "war games" the only way to win is not to play, if your goal is kerbals live happy and peaceful...

 

So in essence, I was really trying to start a conversation about this as a viable mod or gameplay extension for those who are really hardcore into colonization stuff.

 

I did put this in general discussion, not the science forum, specifically because I didn't want to get too deep into the weeds on real life and such.

I'm going for an abstraction, like fallout shelter, someone already mentioned 'vaults' as an analogue. In the mobile game fallout shelter, it's not pornographic or explicit, but they have the idea of reproduction and aging as a game mechanic and resource, in the same way as in the USI life support, you don't just bring supplies, you also bring recycles to extend your mission beyond your initial supplies.

[Nightshift83]

KSP + Crusader Kings + Starfleet Comand + EnemyEngaged(Apache vs Havoc) = the game of my dreams (someday I'll make it!!)

 

[Sir_Robert]

1 hour ago, Nightshift83 said:

KSP + Crusader Kings + Starfleet Comand + EnemyEngaged(Apache vs Havoc) = the game of my dreams (someday I'll make it!!)

 

Crusader Kings in space? Now there's a thought

[Skorpychan]

Well, Kerbals are green. Orks are green.

Thus, Kerbals must reproduce by shedding spores. That's what the puff of dirt is when they hit the ground; the kerbal exploding into spores on impact.

[AlextheBodacious]

19 hours ago, Buster Charlie said:

sanity ending a sanityendingelf sustaining colony ship

kerb all

Autocorrect did a number on this one.

[Jhawk1099]

16 hours ago, SpaceCommunism said:

I definitely think it would be easy to make an age mod and implement things like cryo storage of some kind. Though I am unsure if it is actually a realistic technology.

HA! Realism? In KSP? Only after a generous amount of modding does KSP become close to almost realistic. But its probably a good thing because I am not a NASA engineer and as such not capable of doing anything realistic 

[Starwaster]

On 2/24/2016 at 10:30 AM, Wallygator said:

On the long journey, one kerbal uses a pool que to whack another over the head. The target kerbal breaks into multiple little green chunks that gently grow into full size kerbals. 

Or am I having a 1970's board game flashback? 

Either way, it works for me. 

Draw a Weapons Chit to determine the effect of the weapon on the Kerbal.

[AbacusWizard]

I have heard it said that a chicken is an egg's way of making more eggs.

Perhaps a kerbal is a spaceship's way of making more spaceships. (Note that most kerbals do come from lone command pods in orbit.)

[loch.ness]

5 hours ago, AbacusWizard said:

I have heard it said that a chicken is an egg's way of making more eggs.

Perhaps a kerbal is a spaceship's way of making more spaceships. (Note that most kerbals do come from lone command pods in orbit.)

This is both hilarious and creepy -  I love it.

 

I think I might have to have some fun imaging the writing of Sigmund Kermeud as he examines why Jeb, Bill, Bob, and Val continue to attempt to regress into an infantile state through "E.V.A."  instead of embracing their adult identity as interplanetary rockets.

 

As far as modding generation-ships, mortality, and reproduction goes.  I think there is a "civilian population" mod that allows for alot of these features but it is centered on planetary colonies because the physical size of ship you'd need for a generation ship is just too part count prohibitive for KSP.

 

If players are looking for interstellar travel (or really even kerballed missions to outer planets (OPM) they are accepting either A) significant Sci-Fi like warp drives or cryo-freeze, or B) ignoring life-support which isn't in the game yet anyway.

[Wallygator]

13 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Draw a Weapons Chit to determine the effect of the weapon on the Kerbal.

FRAGMENTS! Snits, Snits revenge and AGTFOS. Ha! A the memories.

On Topic: Is it really that important that the reproductive mechanism is defined? Seems like that should likely remain a RP preference for the time being. Or kept abstract enough that if the Devs decide to allow population growth simulation then as long as a variety of genders make up a reasonable sized gene-pool, then more Kerbals will appear over time - to eat the last remaining snacks.  Frankly, let them have their privacy while that do what they do like on the discovery channel.