[1.12.X] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.6.15 [28. April 2022]

[Nils277]

@DStaal Thanks, for the Info, I keep an eye on the development of these parts of UKS and do more basic stuff until the changes are done. Don't want to do everything twice 

[DStaal]

You're welcome.  Why I mentioned it. 

Also, I worked a bit on the UKS wiki, writing up this page aimed at mod authors: https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki/Supporting-MKS-in-your-mod

If you have comments, or something you think should be included, feel free to tell me and I'll see what I can do.  So far it's mostly been mod users who've been working on the wiki, so it's possible we're missing something important from your end.

[Nils277]

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

You're welcome.  Why I mentioned it. 

Also, I worked a bit on the UKS wiki, writing up this page aimed at mod authors: https://github.com/BobPalmer/MKS/wiki/Supporting-MKS-in-your-mod

If you have comments, or something you think should be included, feel free to tell me and I'll see what I can do.  So far it's mostly been mod users who've been working on the wiki, so it's possible we're missing something important from your end.

Oh, this wiki will be very helpful :-)

I think a big problem is to keep it up to date. Roverdude really tends to change the Systems a lot over the time. UKS and USI-LS both. 

I will contact you when I find new things etc.

I really hope that I won't have to change the support for UKS every two weeks when it changes to constantly...might get a bit frustrating. 

[jayvaughan08]

Loving the Mod! Thank you for this Nils277 !

Just a heads up, on the new garage parts it looks like there's some clipping between the new garage adapter, the new garage, and the new door. Also, the new garage does some wonky stuff if you try to adjust it using the move tool in the editor.

And a question... using TAC-LS (and perhaps this should be a TAC question), in the wiki it says its possible to be self sustaining on minmus because there's water. Is that still current? I haven't been able to find any water on minmus using the CRP. There are hydrates though.  I think I just figured it out, you can mine ore and use the Sabatier reactor to make water.

I do wish that the hab, greenhouse, and science modules were the same length and mass just about. I spend an incredible amount of time in the editor trying to get everything balanced on my rockets when using the bi or tri-coupler. Perhaps this is by design (for challenge) I suppose? Anyways, I'm loving the models and the mod so I'm hesitant to suggest changing anything!

P.S. does anyone know of a mod to add in counter weights (preferably radial)?

Edited June 3, 2016 by jayvaughan08

[Nils277]

2 hours ago, jayvaughan08 said:

Loving the Mod! Thank you for this Nils277 !

Just a heads up, on the new garage parts it looks like there's some clipping between the new garage adapter, the new garage, and the new door. Also, the new garage does some wonky stuff if you try to adjust it using the move tool in the editor.

And a question... using TAC-LS (and perhaps this should be a TAC question), in the wiki it says its possible to be self sustaining on minmus because there's water. Is that still current? I haven't been able to find any water on minmus using the CRP. There are hydrates though.  I think I just figured it out, you can mine ore and use the Sabatier reactor to make water.

I do wish that the hab, greenhouse, and science modules were the same length and mass just about. I spend an incredible amount of time in the editor trying to get everything balanced on my rockets when using the bi or tri-coupler. Perhaps this is by design (for challenge) I suppose? Anyways, I'm loving the models and the mod so I'm hesitant to suggest changing anything!

P.S. does anyone know of a mod to add in counter weights (preferably radial)?

I can see the clipping between the garage adapter and the garage with the side door. But what i can't see clipping with the door. Can you show that in a screenshot pls?  
 

To the question with the water: Um, the sabatier needs Hydrogen and CO2 to work, not ore. According to the definitions in CRP, water should be able to be mined in Minmus. But it is very rare. The documentation is a bit out of data. It is referring to when i did not add compatibility for CRP and the Drills were hardcoded to be able to mine water on specific planets. I should probably add a warning to the docu until i find time to update it.

Yes, it should be a bit of a challange to bring them into orbit. But i think it might be a good idea to make their weight to be a function of their length. This way a rocket will be balanced when the stacked modules are about the same length. (This won't include the fueltank though, as it must be heavier because of its fuel alone)

[Nils277]

Update for CKAN: The newest version 1.1.1 is availale now!

 

[DStaal]

11 hours ago, Nils277 said:

Oh, this wiki will be very helpful :-)

I think a big problem is to keep it up to date. Roverdude really tends to change the Systems a lot over the time. UKS and USI-LS both. 

I will contact you when I find new things etc.

I really hope that I won't have to change the support for UKS every two weeks when it changes to constantly...might get a bit frustrating. 

Yeah, I'm hoping that while the mechanics may change, the modules enabling the mechanics don't.  (Or at least, not as often.)  Then it's just a question of new modules/mechanics that come into play.

I have another idea for helping maintenance of resource storage - I'll have to see if I can get it to work and then if RoverDude will go for it.  (It should help him as well, if it works.)  I'll keep you posted.

[spoonyboobah]

Hey @Nils277, love your mod, this is stock level quality and should be bought by SQUAD

Just a couple of questions and I wanted to share and hear your thoughts, is there a reason with your USI-LS patches that the Central Hub has a 90% Life Support Recycler that requires Water to run? Because I would think that the Central Hub being the initial part upon a moon or world that forcing Water being needed is a little too difficult for new bases? 

Would maybe like to see it being dialled down to a lesser percentage Life Support Recycler, that only requires ElectricCharge would be better for the Central Hub and make the Mk2 Greenhouse have the better Life Support that requires Water to encourage expanding and using it?

Also, I know you deprecated the rigid corridor structures, however with the release of 1.1 and its better optimization, I would like to see them being brought back as I have great fun using KAS to build my base bit by bit? I ship them down in a KIS container and use a rover to move them close  (Can't wait for @RoverDude to release the "Akita" rover as this would be a perfect small manoeuvrable flatbed to put parts on to move into position) Would you also, maybe consider creating a Mk2 "Warehouse" like part that uses KIS but has much larger storage then the Storage Rack containers? But being much larger would be harder to put in place?

Finally, I know you plan to bring support for OSE by making a KPBS Workshop, would you make the parts of your mod printable by OSE, so in future I and others can build KPBS parts in-situ and expand my base with KAS?

Sorry for ranting on but I have been building a base on Minmus and have had many ideas and once again thanks for all your effort and work with KPBS it is one of my favourite mods of all time  

[DStaal]

51 minutes ago, spoonyblobah said:

Hey @Nils277, love your mod, this is stock level quality and should be bought by SQUAD

Just a couple of questions and I wanted to share and hear your thoughts, is there a reason with your USI-LS patches that the Central Hub has a 90% Life Support Recycler that requires Water to run? Because I would think that the Central Hub being the initial part upon a moon or world that forcing Water being needed is a little too difficult for new bases? 

Would maybe like to see it being dialled down to a lesser percentage Life Support Recycler, that only requires ElectricCharge would be better for the Central Hub and make the Mk2 Greenhouse have the better Life Support that requires Water to encourage expanding and using it?

Also, I know you deprecated the rigid corridor structures, however with the release of 1.1 and its better optimization, I would like to see them being brought back as I have great fun using KAS to build my base bit by bit? I ship them down in a KIS container and use a rover to move them close  (Can't wait for @RoverDude to release the "Akita" rover as this would be a perfect small manoeuvrable flatbed to put parts on to move into position) Would you also, maybe consider creating a Mk2 "Warehouse" like part that uses KIS but has much larger storage then the Storage Rack containers? But being much larger would be harder to put in place?

Finally, I know you plan to bring support for OSE by making a KPBS Workshop, would you make the parts of your mod printable by OSE, so in future I and others can build KPBS parts in-situ and expand my base with KAS?

Sorry for ranting on but I have been building a base on Minmus and have had many ideas and once again thanks for all your effort and work with KPBS it is one of my favourite mods of all time  

I think the thought on the Central Hub is that it's not the 'first' piece - it's the central piece.  It's the only two-story building in this pack, and obviously has more capability than a lot of other parts.  It's the command center for your entire colony, not just the one base.  Start with an easier part to ship out (like the cupola, or the command module), and build up to the Central Hub.  Or put in the central hub, and plan to bring the full life support system online later - shipping in supplies while the colony's still under construction is valid, after all.

(That said, I'm starting to make the argument that the 'water purifier' level of recyclers should really be thought of as converting water to supplies, instead of recycling supplies.  But still, having that in the Central Hub could make sense - as would having a more conventional recycler, so whatever Nils decides.)

And: Are the mod parts not printable by OSE?  I haven't tested recently, but I thought OSE could print anything it could fit in storage, generally.  (Though for larger parts I tend to find building using EL is faster and easier.)  Now, the parts in this mod are fairly large and rigid, so fitting them in KIS storage might be an issue, but it should be possible - assuming you have a printer that supports the size and storage volume to put it in.  (OSE printers have a maximum size they can print, as well as the maximum size of storage you have available.)

[spoonyboobah]

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

I think the thought on the Central Hub is that it's not the 'first' piece - it's the central piece.  It's the only two-story building in this pack, and obviously has more capability than a lot of other parts.  It's the command center for your entire colony, not just the one base.  Start with an easier part to ship out (like the cupola, or the command module), and build up to the Central Hub.  Or put in the central hub, and plan to bring the full life support system online later - shipping in supplies while the colony's still under construction is valid, after all.

(That said, I'm starting to make the argument that the 'water purifier' level of recyclers should really be thought of as converting water to supplies, instead of recycling supplies.  But still, having that in the Central Hub could make sense - as would having a more conventional recycler, so whatever Nils decides.)

And: Are the mod parts not printable by OSE?  I haven't tested recently, but I thought OSE could print anything it could fit in storage, generally.  (Though for larger parts I tend to find building using EL is faster and easier.)  Now, the parts in this mod are fairly large and rigid, so fitting them in KIS storage might be an issue, but it should be possible - assuming you have a printer that supports the size and storage volume to put it in.  (OSE printers have a maximum size they can print, as well as the maximum size of storage you have available.)

Hi @DStaal,

 

I always assumed the Central Hub should be the first piece as it clearly has basic science lab and accommodation as per the IVA, and due to its size, its easily stack mountable so I have always sent it first as the initial outpost. The only thing that was off was the overly efficient life support that required Water.

As for OSE, I'm not entirely sure now, the only way I use OSE at the moment is using the 3D Printing Lab module that comes with the mod with a volume of 300 litres I believe?? and nothing from KPBS came up on the OSE UI but I may have to do more investigating...Is there any Parts out there that use OSE at higher volumes except from MKS???

As for EL, I will probably start using the core dll in the future and build entire sections in one go and dock them. As long as it doesn't make it too complex...

 

[jayvaughan08]

21 hours ago, Nils277 said:

I can see the clipping between the garage adapter and the garage with the side door. But what i can't see clipping with the door. Can you show that in a screenshot pls?  
 

To the question with the water: Um, the sabatier needs Hydrogen and CO2 to work, not ore. According to the definitions in CRP, water should be able to be mined in Minmus. But it is very rare. The documentation is a bit out of data. It is referring to when i did not add compatibility for CRP and the Drills were hardcoded to be able to mine water on specific planets. I should probably add a warning to the docu until i find time to update it.

Yes, it should be a bit of a challange to bring them into orbit. But i think it might be a good idea to make their weight to be a function of their length. This way a rocket will be balanced when the stacked modules are about the same length. (This won't include the fueltank though, as it must be heavier because of its fuel alone)

Ah I see, re: the Sabatier... Although, in the description doesn't it say "this container uses CO2 and Hydrogen extracted from Ore to generate Water..." however we have no means of converting said ore into hydrogen unless I missing something and it can't be mined with just TAC and KPBS. It would work if the input was supposed to be ore instead of hydrogen though.

Regarding the balancing. I'm someone who likes things very balanced and symmetric which is why I love modular systems. And having mass equal when the modules are about the same length would be great. The problem is so far, getting the modules 'exactly' the same length isn't really possible. They're always off by a few units no matter which combination parts I use. Sorry, that's probably just OCD. I'm not complaining or suggesting, I'm happy to use what you've made and/or are already making for the future.

Garage Picture Attached:

[CobaltWolf]

On 5/27/2016 at 8:43 AM, Nils277 said:

Oh. My. Lawd. That is a thing of beauty. Makes me want to go back and improve the SEP textures. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help - if you want OBJs of the parts or anything.

I believe I mentioned - the limitation of our current implementation using DMagicScienceAnimate means that the parts require, specifically, the SEP_CentralStation part connected to the vessel in order to work. I would like to be able to use either/or but I don't believe that functionality is available unless we were to create and add a dummy part module, since we can make requirements for either specific parts or specific modules. Would someone be able to make a plugin that adds a dummy module (something like ModuleSEPCentralStation) that can be used to select the parts? That way this would work better.

[Nils277]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh. My. Lawd. That is a thing of beauty. Makes me want to go back and improve the SEP textures. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help - if you want OBJs of the parts or anything.

I believe I mentioned - the limitation of our current implementation using DMagicScienceAnimate means that the parts require, specifically, the SEP_CentralStation part connected to the vessel in order to work. I would like to be able to use either/or but I don't believe that functionality is available unless we were to create and add a dummy part module, since we can make requirements for either specific parts or specific modules. Would someone be able to make a plugin that adds a dummy module (something like ModuleSEPCentralStation) that can be used to select the parts? That way this would work better.

Thanks, it is actualy finished with animation and all and already in the latest update. Unfortunately i never really recognized that the experiemts need specifically the SEP_CentralStation to be attached to the vessel to be functional. Making a dummy module sounds like a quite good idea! Wrote you a pm about it 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Nils277

[Nils277]

15 hours ago, jayvaughan08 said:

Ah I see, re: the Sabatier... Although, in the description doesn't it say "this container uses CO2 and Hydrogen extracted from Ore to generate Water..." however we have no means of converting said ore into hydrogen unless I missing something and it can't be mined with just TAC and KPBS. It would work if the input was supposed to be ore instead of hydrogen though.

Regarding the balancing. I'm someone who likes things very balanced and symmetric which is why I love modular systems. And having mass equal when the modules are about the same length would be great. The problem is so far, getting the modules 'exactly' the same length isn't really possible. They're always off by a few units no matter which combination parts I use. Sorry, that's probably just OCD. I'm not complaining or suggesting, I'm happy to use what you've made and/or are already making for the future.

Garage Picture Attached:

Oh, the description of the sabatier is not up do date. Have to update it in the next update. It used to use ore but i changed it to be more compatible with the way the converters from universal storage.

I described the lengths some time ago (maybe in the old thread):
Habitat (MK1/MK2) = 2x Command
Command = 2x Adapter/Engine
Laboratory = Habitat + Adapter
Greenhouse = Habitat + Command
Big Storage = Habitat

The Small and Medium sized storages and the Airlocks do not fit into that scheme though. 
 

[jayvaughan08]

4 hours ago, Nils277 said:

Oh, the description of the sabatier is not up do date. Have to update it in the next update. It used to use ore but i changed it to be more compatible with the way the converters from universal storage.

I described the lengths some time ago (maybe in the old thread):
Habitat (MK1/MK2) = 2x Command
Command = 2x Adapter/Engine
Laboratory = Habitat + Adapter
Greenhouse = Habitat + Command
Big Storage = Habitat

The Small and Medium sized storages and the Airlocks do not fit into that scheme though. 
 

Ok, awesome then. Thank you for the replies!

[Rafael acevedo]

My Base with the latest version of kpbs, pathfinder and the malemute rover  Hope you like it

[Bloody_looser]

@Nils277, FYI @RoverDude's Malemute rover geology lab still doesn't fit into the garage.

Edit: Nevermind I screwed-up installation somehow.

Also, can we have moar attachment nodes on the inside of the garage?

Edited June 5, 2016 by Bloody_looser
My bad

[jayvaughan08]

1 minute ago, Bloody_looser said:

@Nils277, FYI @RoverDude's Malemute rover geology lab still doesn't fit into the garage.

 

Also, can we have moar attachment nodes on the inside of the garage?

Are you're sure you're using the new garage and not the old one? the old garages were left in I think to prevent craft from breaking.

It's tight. But I was able to get it to fit. At least using the mini wheels on it. Looks like @Rafael acevedo was able to get it to work with the full size wheels though.

[Bloody_looser]

3 minutes ago, jayvaughan08 said:

Are you're sure you're using the new garage and not the old one? the old garages were left in I think to prevent craft from breaking.

You've made me question that.

Moar nodes point still stands though.

[jayvaughan08]

1 minute ago, Bloody_looser said:

You've made me question that.

Moar nodes point still stands though.

I second that request actually. Nodes on the floor and ceiling would be nice.

[Rafael acevedo]

On May 22, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Nils277 said:

oh, thats a zero too much i guess. Will be fixed in the next update.

This will be the fourth rover right? You really live up to your name 

Had no issues fitting the malamute with geology lab inside. As for docking it inside , I install akbps docking port to both the male ute and the garage. This allows me to dock inside will send pictures in a few. Also try moving the geology lab to the center, so when you come up the ramp you don't hit the roof or optionally lower the hangar to the ground so the ramp is level (i.e. No slope)

Edited June 5, 2016 by Rafael acevedo

[Rafael acevedo]

1 hour ago, jayvaughan08 said:

Are you're sure you're using the new garage and not the old one? the old garages were left in I think to prevent craft from breaking.

It's tight. But I was able to get it to fit. At least using the mini wheels on it. Looks like @Rafael acevedo was able to get it to work with the full size wheels though.

Its a perfect fit

[The Thyroid Man]

This is a GREAT mod. I'm loving it. The only problem is that the lab doesn't seem to work for me. I can't transfer over people, (it doesn't show up as a habitable module) but when I click on it, it says 0/1 crew to operate. When I try to EVA transfer over to it, it says "cannot board a full module" even though I know it has no people in it. I was testing it out in sandbox mode, could that be part of it?

although, otherwise, keep up the good work!

[jayvaughan08]

 

1 hour ago, The Thyroid Man said:

This is a GREAT mod. I'm loving it. The only problem is that the lab doesn't seem to work for me. I can't transfer over people, (it doesn't show up as a habitable module) but when I click on it, it says 0/1 crew to operate. When I try to EVA transfer over to it, it says "cannot board a full module" even though I know it has no people in it. I was testing it out in sandbox mode, could that be part of it?

although, otherwise, keep up the good work!

It's giving you the message even after you right clicked and hit 'deploy' before attempting to board it?

edit: and it actually deploys (has electric charge and probe core... youll see the animation)

Edited June 8, 2016 by jayvaughan08

[tsaven]

On 5/30/2016 at 2:55 PM, DStaal said:

For anyone who's using my UKS configs - I've updated them on Github.  Changes:

Question.  If we're using your configs, do they automatically overwrite/take precedence over the defaults or do we need to edit/remove the configs that already come with KPBS?

Edited June 9, 2016 by tsaven