The Grand KSP 1.1 Discussion Thread

[klgraham1013]

Need an excuse?  Blame Unity!

...but, to be serious, not a bad update.  Let's keep killing them bugs for 1.2.  Rover wheels are pretty important to my play style.

[Don Kerban]

Hi guys. I've managed to run KSP on a 3 monitor setup, both in 1.0.5 and in 1.1. In 1.1 it's even better since the frame rate has drastically increased. Here's how I did it:

I used this to get rid of the borders after disabling the fullscreen mode: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Startup_parameters. However, this fix only worked for me by adding the popup parameter in Steam. It wouldn't work in the Windows shortcut.

Next, I modified the settings.cfg file. You can find that in the KSP root folder. Open it with a text editor and search for these:
SCREEN_RESOLUTION_WIDTH = 1920
SCREEN_RESOLUTION_HEIGHT = 1080

Modify the values as you wish -> save -> run KSP.

I am currently running in 5440X1080. It's awesome

 Snapshot (http://postimg.org/image/5us9pqrjr/full/)

However, on the side monitors things get very skewed up, but it's not much of a problem since most of the action happens on the central one.

 

[smjjames]

34 minutes ago, J.Random said:

Dude. The problem is not bugs. The problem is that some bugs are serious, like that access-violation-CTD-without-dump issue. You just don't release with such bugs. Why the freaking rush? Even more insulting is that it's done after promises not to repeat "1.0" scenario. To make it a complete sequel, Squad should probably go on vacation (after all that OT which many people, including myself, called a bad idea) and return to fixing this "release" a couple months later. I don't think I'll care two months later and, frankly, I'm not sure if I should continue caring even now. NMS is right around the corner.

And hey, if I knew someone could interpret "z-fighting" as lighting issue or barber-pole shadows or something like that, I would add "look! Flickering green triangle thingamajig" - but I was confident that it's kinda obvious.

The problem is that the random CTD isn't reproducible. People, including me, have made bug reports of them, but the fact that they are so random and unreproducible is what's making it hard for the devs to track it down. 

For or the record though, I've only had maybe 3 of those crashes, all of them doing rather common and easily reproducible things. 

I wonder if the fact that a crashlog isn't being generated is in itself a bug. 

[adsii1970]

For those of you who braved the pre-release in search of bugs and glitches. Enjoy!

NOTE: My photo editing stylus has died so I had to clip Jebediah with nothing but a mouse. One of the benefits of an 80 pixel tall image is it's really too small to see the horrible photo editing job done freehand with a mouse. For a signature badge, most will never see the full size image to see the rough lines... anyhow.. wanted to put the disclaimer out.

Edited April 20, 2016 by adsii1970

[Fearless Son]

7 hours ago, Curveball Anders said:

KSP like all other good software is a mish-mash of good intentions, brilliance and random chance.

Anyone who works in the software industry for any length of time comes to know this intimately.  Development is a balancing act of time, functionality, personal ability, and expending the scope of things that were never expected to scale that way.  

Put as a metaphor, for every clean and polished-looking rocket design you see, there are dozens of struts clipped inside holding it together.  

[Znath]

Exactly Laythedragon. 

1.1's performance level is out of this world.  I'm pretty confident that they'll fix the wheel and landing gear being made of glass pretty soon.

They're unnaturally weak... like their impact rating is 50m/s and they're braking sub20

 

It's a bug, so... I'll wait.

 

This really really.... really really sucks for people like me who really enjoy planes and land vehicles.

 

But I'm also pretty excited that I'll finally be able to build big stuff!

[J.Random]

6 minutes ago, smjjames said:

The problem is that the random CTD isn't reproducible.

The one in the editor is, and quite easily. The one on staging in flight is tricky, yes. It can be caught, but I don't really see the point in running the "released" game with debugger attached anymore.

[smjjames]

1 minute ago, J.Random said:

The one in the editor is, and quite easily. The one on staging in flight is tricky, yes. It can be caught, but I don't really see the point in running the "released" game with debugger attached anymore.

I haven't had those two, personally. And the debugger window has been there for a long time and is simply too useful to remove. 

If you're having those crashes and they're reproducible, why not write up a bug report?

[J.Random]

1 minute ago, smjjames said:

I haven't had those two, personally. And the debugger window has been there for a long time and is simply too useful to remove. 

If you're having those crashes and they're reproducible, why not write up a bug report?

I don't mean KSP debug window. I mean an actual debugger from Windows SDK, which can be attached to KSP process and allows to see the trace when problem occurs. The issue is already there, #8241.

[Table]

So, 64bit means you can basically use almost all the memory you have? 

Then why am I crashing?  I'm only using about 4gb of memory and I have 16gb

[smjjames]

Just now, Table said:

So, 64bit means you can basically use almost all the memory you have? 

Then why am I crashing?  I'm only using about 4gb of memory and I have 16gb

Double check if you're using 64bit, the version number in the lower right on the main menu screen will say (64x) next to it. 

Also, are you using any mods? We have to eliminate it being caused by mods. 

7 minutes ago, J.Random said:

I don't mean KSP debug window. I mean an actual debugger from Windows SDK, which can be attached to KSP process and allows to see the trace when problem occurs. The issue is already there, #8241.

Oh, how do o do that? Would be useful for those random crashes. Or any crash really. 

[steve_v]

Surprised it's out so soon TBH.

Good: Performance, working AA (finally) on Linux, UI overhaul is awesome.

Bad: Wheels appear to have the structural integrity of a sugar sculpture, bunch of game engine bugs still unfixed (pulseaudio, windowed mode broken / unable to run at non-native resolution without various graphical/UI glitches, GC stutter still present, seemingly random crashes - e.g. double free() -> aborted ctd.) That's just the few I encountered in a ~1hr first-play on GNU/Linux.
Some of these have workarounds, but a working workaround is not an excuse to release with serious bugs - particularly crashes.

My very first startup of 1.1 was a crash-to-desktop, fixing that resulted in the game starting, but going spastic with random window geometries, locking input and forcing me to kill it from the CLI. Fixable, but not exactly a shiny first-impression.

Overall much pleased with the engine upgrade, though enough issues remain that I feel it could have done with a little more time.
 

Edited April 20, 2016 by steve_v

[J.Random]

17 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Oh, how do o do that? Would be useful for those random crashes. Or any crash really. 

Well, google "windbg", I guess. It has a manual and I'm not ready to teach anyone how to use it, especially as I don't know all its features myself (the need to debug anything windows-specific arises very rarely).

[SelectHalfling0]

Um.... wasn't there a pre-release? I feel like all these issues should've been encountered and fixed by now.

[HebaruSan]

18 minutes ago, steve_v said:

My very first startup of 1.1 was a crash-to-desktop, fixing that resulted in the game starting, but going spastic with random window geometries, locking input and forcing me to kill it from the CLI. Fixable, but not exactly a shiny first-impression.

I really pity Steam users with auto updates enabled on Linux who don't monitor the forum. For many of them, their experience would be, the game randomly stopped working last night and still won't load. The release announcements should at least have pointers to the workarounds to reduce the number of times the community has to explain them.

3 minutes ago, SelectHalfling0 said:

Um.... wasn't there a pre-release? I feel like all these issues should've been encountered and fixed by now.

Yes, they were encountered and reported on the bug tracker. The criterion for the release seems to have been, "How much time has passed" rather than "How many serious bugs remain".

Edited April 20, 2016 by HebaruSan

[Pds314]

10 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

The level 1 runway (i.e., the one part of Kerbin's surface that is least like a runway) is so bumpy that you roll backward. Every other runway, you still roll forward.

LOL. The lvl 1 runway is truly awful. You'd be better off using the helipad on top of the VAB.

[Matuchkin]

And I remember the hype over version 1.0.

*Sentimental Tear*

[UnionPacific1983WP]

Just started up 1.1 for the first time. I noticed that the main theme music sounds slightly different, like the background trumpet (or some sort of brass instrument) sounds slightly more pronounced.

Anyone else notice this?

Also, I like the new background images for loading up the game!

[Wragie]

I installed yesterday afternoon after being surprised it was out. I thought the devs would be playing wack-a-mole with the bugs for a while longer.  I was hoping it would be an improvement but wasn't holding my breath based on the .90-1.05 experiences. Normally I would crash out to desktop or a blank/blacked out screen quite frequently. For an example for an hours play I would expect no less than 4 or 5 crashes with at least two system reboots. Some was caused by using a lot of mods bumping up against the ram limits (I believe so anyway) but others were distinctly known win10 issues (video display driver has stopped responding is the main one) . The later usually the cause for a three fingered salute with a few choice words thrown in. And having to deal with interesting results such as permanently loosing Jeb/Bill/Val on the way to the launch pad despite having re-spawn enabled. I hadn't lost anyone so went to use the "crew" and the game died right after clicking the launch button in the VAB the game crashed out and they were gone. While they showed as missing they would never re-spawn. That occurred more than once but that one time wiped out my top tier kerbals in one go.

After getting the 1.1 (using x64 on win10) installed and playing non-stop for about 6 hours (no I am hardly addicted at all lol) I had exactly ONE crash! And that was the win 10 display driver. That occurred fairly soon after starting (maybe 30 mins in) but after it just worked. Not a single random crash glitch etc. Am quite pleased overall with the increased stability and speed. I am currently running through my mods wanted wish list and seeing just how far it can be pushed before it melts lol.

 

[basic.syntax]

43 minutes ago, J.Random said:

The one in the editor is, and quite easily. The one on staging in flight is tricky, yes. It can be caught, but I don't really see the point in running the "released" game with debugger attached anymore.

I can say that I've seen it once now, for the first time, following the simple scenario shown in YT video demo linked by CJDAM in bug #8241. It took about a minute of rapidly swiping a decoupler across a command pod in x2 symmetry. (I'm on W8.1.) Then I tried again, but was unable after 2-3 minutes of rapid swiping. I thought it might occur 8x faster while dragging a decoupler across objects already in 8x symmetry, but no luck so far. The bug is still active, it's had many eyes on it. I think it should eventually be reproduced in-house (automation test tools may help) or the related code tightened up.

The problem was clearly not considered a show stopper (since KSP v1.1 is 'out') because of the difficulty of nailing down a consistent repro scenario. As stated, I've seen this problem one time and only by intentionally trying to provoke it, since I started messing around with craft in the pre-release period. Intermittent / random problems are the worst.

[Vanamonde]

Quote

Um.... wasn't there a pre-release? 

Yes, and a pretty busy one it was, too.

Hyperbole doesn't help anyone, people. No one is trying to "insult" you through a game version release. 

A number of 1.1-related threads have been merged into this master thread. When a new version comes out, there's a tendency for the forum to be flooded with overlapping threads, so for right now, we're trying to keep the discussion all in one place to reduce confusion and redundancy. 

[Sethur]

Since 1.1, the KSP theme song and most part of the background music seems to have been compressed to death, especially the theme songs sounds very washed out to me compared to 1.0.5. This has been reported on the bug tracker for the pre-release and I reported it again after the proper release here: http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9324

People also experiencing this issue should state so here and on the bug tracker to draw attention to this issue, otherwise a fix will be very low priority.

[Arsonide]

2 hours ago, J.Random said:

but I was confident that it's kinda obvious.

And therein lies the problem. We read through literally hundreds of issues at a time and have to discern which ones are top priority and which ones might be fixable now. However, priority involves much more than just the severity of the issue. A relatively minor issue that is simple to reproduce using well documented steps might bump up in priority, because those are (usually) simple to debug and work through, making it faster to get off of the tracker. That doesn't mean the severe issues are less important, it just means we need them to be well documented so we can actually find and fix them.

Issues with vague titles, short descriptions, no logs, and no reproduction steps are harder to prioritize. Images are helpful, but they are the dressing on the issue sandwich. Given the volume of issues we were combing through, these under-documented issues are hard to get to when we have thirty other well-documented ones begging for our attention. Assuming things are obvious means that we have to read between the lines on an issue, and dedicate precious time to figuring out how to replicate it, rather than jumping in and actually fixing it.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Arsonide

[Curveball Anders]

2 hours ago, joespeed1952 said:

could anyone tell me why I am lagging worse in this release than in 1.0.5? Computer specs: Windows 10 64-bit, 1900x1080 TV monitor. Intel graphics.

(me bold)

I feel your pain bro.

I actually did a test run on my word processor / intel graphics workstation and while 1.1 works, it's a wee bit laggy.

Note that the 64bit exec can both handle more memory and uses more memory in doing so.

So unless you want to mod your install beyond the dreaded 4 (or 3.75) limit, use the 32 bit version.

And ponder getting yourself an actual GPU, Intel graphics is fine for text, but nothing else.

[joespeed1952]

Just now, Curveball Anders said:

And ponder getting yourself an actual GPU, Intel graphics is fine for text, but nothing else.

Okay. I've always heard how Intel is the best graphics and stuff. I am thinking of getting myself an actual gaming computer, as I am just running a laptop, and should really get a computing unit, rather than just the crappy laptop one.... I usually use an 8GB Stick with ReadyBoost on Win. It helps somewhat on minimum graphics, but I'll try x32 and see if that works better.