[1.11.+] ESLD Jump Beacons Revived (1.4.0)

[DStaal]

It's also worth noting that recent flap between CKAN and mod authors resulted in an agreement that means the process to get something onto CKAN is likely to be slower than it was.  (But is also less likely to be wrong and cause issues.)

If you want to use CKAN for convenience realize it is not and cannot be the the best way to get a completely up-to-the-minute version of all your mods.  It takes time for the CKAN people to notice a mod has been updated, and then to update their info for it.  (And in some cases *test* the new info to make sure it's correct.)  If you want to get updates faster, you can always install them manually.

[rasta013]

  On 7/6/2016 at 8:32 PM, Jasmir said:

A gameplay question: I've searched ~10 Asteroids by grabbing then and look at the surface-scanner. But none of then seems do have Karborundum. Is this right? The wiki says, "it can be found there"...

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No - Asteroids will never have K+ on them any more.  Default locations for K+ is on Eve, Eeloo or very close to the sun if you can manage to build a craft that doesn't burn up trying to harvest it.  If you want it in other locations a simple resource patch can add it to any location you desire, including asteroids, although that would make it ridiculously easy.  My personal favorites for add-on locations are Dres and Tylo.  I also added it to the atmosphere of Jool in low quantities but it allows me to use a MM patched atmosphere scoop to harvest it there as well - extremely challenging but a lot of fun.

Example of resource configuration (taken from the CRP K+ Eeloo definition):

  Reveal hidden contents

//
//    Community Resource Pack
//    Resource:
//
//Resource types:  
//    0 = Crustal            (Stuff you dig up)
//    1 = Oceanic            (Stuff in the oceans)
//    2 = Atmospheric        (Stuff in the air, varies with pressure)
//    3 = Interplanetary    (Stuff you find between planets)
//
//Express all numbers as percentages 0.0-100.0, not 0.0-1.0!
//

PLANETARY_RESOURCE
{
    ResourceName = Karborundum
    ResourceType = 0
    PlanetName = Eeloo     //Name of the location you wish the resource to be found
    
    Distribution
    {
        PresenceChance = 100    //Chance to find the resource on this body
        MinAbundance = .001       //The minimum resource deposit level
        MaxAbundance = .01        //The maximum resource deposit level
        Variance = 50                    //The variation of the deposits across a biome
        Dispersal = 3                     //The concentration of deposits within a biome (spiky vs. diffuse)
    }
}

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by rasta013
Finish writing the distribution definitions

[Booots]

  On 7/6/2016 at 8:32 PM, Jasmir said:

A gameplay question: I've searched ~10 Asteroids by grabbing then and look at the surface-scanner. But none of then seems do have Karborundum. Is this right? The wiki says, "it can be found there"...

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  On 7/6/2016 at 10:01 PM, rasta013 said:

No - Asteroids will never have K+ on them any more.  Default locations for K+ is on Eve, Eeloo or very close to the sun if you can manage to build a craft that doesn't burn up trying to harvest it.  If you want it in other locations a simple resource patch can add it to any location you desire, including asteroids, although that would make it ridiculously easy.  My personal favorites for add-on locations are Dres and Tylo.  I also added it to the atmosphere of Jool in low quantities but it allows me to use a MM patched atmosphere scoop to harvest it there as well - extremely challenging but a lot of fun.

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I'll get around to updating the wiki on that. K+, the primary curator of Karborundum, configures where it can be found (and also includes mining parts for it). As far as I know, rasta013 is correct, except that the Sun region isn't burning close. There did used to be a folder of Extras included in the distribution of this mod that added Karborundum to Dres and Tylo (and Minmus in 'Easy' mode). I can re-introduce that if there's interest. Also if people want it I can include an MM patch to make the stock drils mine Karborundum too.

Essentially, this mod adds only the jump capability and is semi-dependent on K+ (or custom MM patches) to obtain the jump resource. If a user doesn't want to add K+ they may MM patch stock drills to mine Karborundum or MM patch the beacons themselves to use another resource. Personally, I MM patch stock drills to mine Karborundum and send an epic mission to Eeloo.

 

[rasta013]

  On 7/7/2016 at 1:16 AM, Booots said:

*snip* except that the Sun region isn't burning close *snip*

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Yeah, TBH, I haven't tried to harvest from the sun in a long time...

[Deimos Rast]

  On 7/6/2016 at 10:01 PM, rasta013 said:

No - Asteroids will never have K+ on them any more.  Default locations for K+ is on Eve, Eeloo or very close to the sun if you can manage to build a craft that doesn't burn up trying to harvest it.  If you want it in other locations a simple resource patch can add it to any location you desire, including asteroids, although that would make it ridiculously easy.  My personal favorites for add-on locations are Dres and Tylo.  I also added it to the atmosphere of Jool in low quantities but it allows me to use a MM patched atmosphere scoop to harvest it there as well - extremely challenging but a lot of fun.

Example of resource configuration (taken from the CRP K+ Eeloo definition):

  Reveal hidden contents

//
//    Community Resource Pack
//    Resource:
//
//Resource types:  
//    0 = Crustal            (Stuff you dig up)
//    1 = Oceanic            (Stuff in the oceans)
//    2 = Atmospheric        (Stuff in the air, varies with pressure)
//    3 = Interplanetary    (Stuff you find between planets)
//
//Express all numbers as percentages 0.0-100.0, not 0.0-1.0!
//

PLANETARY_RESOURCE
{
    ResourceName = Karborundum
    ResourceType = 0
    PlanetName = Eeloo     //Name of the location you wish the resource to be found
    
    Distribution
    {
        PresenceChance = 100    //Chance to find the resource on this body
        MinAbundance = .001       //The minimum resource deposit level
        MaxAbundance = .01        //The maximum resource deposit level
        Variance = 50                    //The variation of the deposits across a biome
        Dispersal = 3                     //The concentration of deposits within a biome (spiky vs. diffuse)
    }
}

 

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By K+ I'm assuming you mean Karborundum...and CRP still adds Karborundum to asteroids (along with the other stuff you mentioned). See below, it's from Asteroid.cfg in the CRP folder (v0.5.4).

---

@Booots FYI, if I'm reading the comment on the cost of the LB15 beacon correctly, you factored in the resource cost into the beacon price. KSP costs in the config are "dry costs" and don't factor in resource costs until the player gets to the VAB. You've changed that, and now effectively the player gets double charged for Karborundum (an additional 1000000) - once in the config and once again in the VAB when they fill up the Karborundum tank. Ouch.

 

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAsteroidResource
		resourceName = Karborundum
		presenceChance = 25
		lowRange = 1
		highRange = 10
	}

 

[Electr0ninja]

@Deimos Rast so when you load up an LB15 what is the cost shown? in the VAB

 

Is the tank showing as prefilled on the LB15? If not there may be a CRP version issue or a ESLD version issue.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Electr0ninja

[Booots]

  On 7/7/2016 at 2:38 AM, Deimos Rast said:

By K+ I'm assuming you mean Karborundum...and CRP still adds Karborundum to asteroids (along with the other stuff you mentioned). See below, it's from Asteroid.cfg in the CRP folder (v0.5.4).

---

@Booots FYI, if I'm reading the comment on the cost of the LB15 beacon correctly, you factored in the resource cost into the beacon price. KSP costs in the config are "dry costs" and don't factor in resource costs until the player gets to the VAB. You've changed that, and now effectively the player gets double charged for Karborundum (an additional 1000000) - once in the config and once again in the VAB when they fill up the Karborundum tank. Ouch.

Expand  

By K+, I mean the mod linked below. Karborundum is the resource it adds specific parts for.

I'm pretty sure part config costs are actually the wet cost. It's confusing because the config mass is dry, but cost is wet. The mouseover will show the wet cost (which is scarily large), but because the tanks start empty it's not so bad once you add the part. For example, the LB-15 tooltip shows 1150000 funds () but once the part in the editor it's only 150000 as it should be. Is there a good way of letting people know it's not actually going to cost that much? Can I specify a dry cost instead somehow?

[Stoney3K]

  On 6/22/2016 at 10:59 AM, rasta013 said:

So much for forcing limitations...

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I can understand why. For players that just want to toy around with the beacons in sandbox and don't want to wait for transfer windows to hurl every single ship around the Kerbol system, that makes sense since you can just send a tanker up to refuel a beacon if it is running dry. It's still inefficient for career players to do so because shipping a full tank of Karborundum would just be unaffordable.

[Jasmir]

I'd like to suggest the following:

- Keep the fuel hard to find & harder to harvest. (At least, i would switch Eeloo with Moho, since Moho is harder to reach due much higher DV requirements)

- MM-Patches for Stock Parts (and mod parts) are a great idea

- The price of the Fuel is ok (to sell it for founds if you don't like contract grinding), but it should not be tweakable.

- Maybe the beacons are still to cheap?

- Maybe the tank parts should not too hard to reach in the CommunityTechTree.

- Maybe a MM-Patch to use the procedural Tanks as Karborundum Storage?

[rasta013]

  On 7/7/2016 at 2:38 AM, Deimos Rast said:

By K+ I'm assuming you mean Karborundum...and CRP still adds Karborundum to asteroids (along with the other stuff you mentioned). See below, it's from Asteroid.cfg in the CRP folder (v0.5.4).

Expand  

Yeah I personally meant Karborundum, forgot that RoverDude named that Karborundum expansion K+.  As for the whole asteroid thing I honestly didn't realize that.  I didn't check the CRP config either so oops...I thought I remembered it being removed but it's nice to also find out I'm wrong since that little chance does help considerably and I'll actually start looking at asteroids again for them. LOL

  On 7/7/2016 at 1:16 PM, Stoney3K said:

I can understand why. For players that just want to toy around with the beacons in sandbox and don't want to wait for transfer windows to hurl every single ship around the Kerbol system, that makes sense since you can just send a tanker up to refuel a beacon if it is running dry. It's still inefficient for career players to do so because shipping a full tank of Karborundum would just be unaffordable.

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Yeah I completely understand the decision to make it tweakable and feel the need for sandbox to have it that way is more important than keeping it completely off limits to career.  Also, as you mention, those costs to add it are tremendous and serve as a lovely money sink.

 

[Electr0ninja]

  On 7/7/2016 at 12:17 PM, Booots said:

By K+, I mean the mod linked below. Karborundum is the resource it adds specific parts for.

I'm pretty sure part config costs are actually the wet cost. It's confusing because the config mass is dry, but cost is wet. The mouseover will show the wet cost (which is scarily large), but because the tanks start empty it's not so bad once you add the part. For example, the LB-15 tooltip shows 1150000 funds () but once the part in the editor it's only 150000 as it should be. Is there a good way of letting people know it's not actually going to cost that much? Can I specify a dry cost instead somehow?

Expand  

you could have the tanks start full, thus making the cost accurate, and put a drycost in the item description, but mabye that is too jury rigged.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Electr0ninja

[hab136]

  On 7/7/2016 at 12:17 PM, Booots said:

I'm pretty sure part config costs are actually the wet cost. It's confusing because the config mass is dry, but cost is wet. The mouseover will show the wet cost (which is scarily large), but because the tanks start empty it's not so bad once you add the part. For example, the LB-15 tooltip shows 1150000 funds () but once the part in the editor it's only 150000 as it should be. Is there a good way of letting people know it's not actually going to cost that much? Can I specify a dry cost instead somehow?

Expand  

Yes, the "cost = " line in the part config is the wet cost, which is the dry cost plus the cost of the maxAmount of resources, regardless of how many it actually starts with.  Looks like you've already figured that out and gone and patched it in Github for the next release.

-cost = 70000
+cost = 250000 // 50000 + resources (50 * 4000)

There's no way to specify a dry cost.  That would be too easy!  However it should show the proper dry cost in the VAB for things that start empty, so don't worry about it

[GrimDarknight]

So this is still not showing for 1.1.3 at all on CKAN.

Edited July 9, 2016 by GrimDarknight

[Stoney3K]

Is there any way we can make the beacons work with the heat system? For example, trying to shove a ship that is obviously too massive through a tiny beacon would make the beacon generate TONS of heat and destroy it if you don't have enough radiators. That would make the beacons a little more challenging to play with, even in sandbox. I sometimes feel like that, once you have a fueled beacon in place, it's too easy to use and to keep running.

I really like having these beacons pose a gameplay challenge, but I feel like "mine an impossible fuel from a third party mod on a world that is difficult too reach" is not really it. These things should be difficult to USE, regardless of the supporting infrastructure that supplies them with fuel.

[rasta013]

  On 7/12/2016 at 5:43 PM, Stoney3K said:

from a third party mod

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Well the mine the fuel and a different world is true but adding the 3rd party mod is not necessary.  Patches are included to add karborundum to drills and the CRP already includes definitions for its locations which you can also expand upon very, very easily.  Hell, if you wanted too, you could have it appear at 100% in 100% density on Kerbin if you really felt like it.  Point being, the resource is optional in all kinds of ways.  You can even configure the mod to not require any resource at all.

As for your other suggestion re: heat system - ohhhh...that would be cool!!!

[linuxgurugamer]

Just an FYI, I've gotten the netkan file fixed for CKAN, so it should hopefully show up soon

[The-Doctor]

  On 6/4/2016 at 8:45 PM, Booots said:

Credit to @TMarkos for the original mod. Until such time as he returns, I'll be maintaining and continuing this mod. Original forum thread.

The Extra-Kerbin Space Technology Research Agency's Superluminal Logicstics Division (EKSTRA SLD) (ESLD) is proud to present their first-ever public release of technology. As colony-building becomes a more common project, Kerbals are spending too much idle time between the stars. This will not do! The ESLD Beacon network will get your Kerbals from point A to points B through Z in no time at all, presuming you've positioned and fueled them, read the warning manual and installed all necessary safeguards. The ESLD is not liable for any deaths or insurance claims that result from the use of our beacons.

Wiki

These are not cheaty, easy jump beacons. They incorporate:

• Line of sight checking.
• Gravity restrictions (also checked under LoS).
• Incredibly costly fuel. More on that in a second.
• Scaling fuel costs with tonnage/distance.
• Tech advancements that allow increased capability.
• Proximity requirements for activation.
• Unique beacon models optimized for different transport scenarios.
• The general process to use this network is to place at least two beacons, then approach one with a hailer (currently just MM'd into the stock antennas). The hailer allows you to open a dialog window with the active beacon, where it will tell you what other active beacons it can see and if it has enough fuel to send you there. Assuming it does on both counts, press the button and off you go.

Fuel is an important consideration, because it's what keeps the beacon system balanced in career mode. True to the maxim that you can choose two from the list of fast, cheap and high-quality, the jump fuel that makes the system tick is incredibly costly, to the extent that most transfers the beacon system performs are more expensive than or comparable to traditional rocketry-based solutions. Time is the ONLY thing you save with beacons, and some players may even plow more into logistics than they would otherwise have cause to do if they feel like maintaining an accessible and fueled beacon network at all times. The mod includes a cfg to allow players to use stock extraction parts to obtain Karborundum.

I'll put this here for my own sanity: if you're playing career, at the start your beacons won't be able to safely transport Kerbals, Karborundum or a variety of other high-energy resources. There will be warnings in the pre-jump window if something bad is about to happen. READ THE WARNINGS.

Link to post outlining optimal beacon types to use:

Known bugs:

• Jump orbit predictions do not appear (disabled until I figure out how to use the new orbit renderer).

Part.cfg changes powered by sarbian & ialdabaoth's ModuleManager plugin; used with permission.

Released under the GPL2 license.

Download Link: Github SpaceDock

Also available on CKAN

Changelog:

  Reveal hidden contents

0.8:

• Added action group capability to beacons and tech boxes.
• Added editor information for beacons and tech boxes.
• All beacons now use generic coefficients for cost instead of hard-coded formulas (IB-1 excepted).
• Fixed model orientation of tech boxes.
• Background performance improvements.
• Updated bundled CRP.

0.7B:

• Fix DDS textures.
• Fix animations and emissives
• Remove the extraneous ModuleAnimateGeneric that used to be required.

0.7a:

• Fix GUI to work with KSP's change to Unity v5.
• Fix collider meshes on beacons.
  • Textures changed to .tga because that's the only way I could get Unity to build the .mu files. Switch back to .dds at your own risk.
• Simplify collider mesh and visual mesh of the tanks to improve performance.
• Partially implement the ability to define new beacons via .cfg's.

 

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Is there a version of this mod that works for 1.1.2? I'm building a massive ship in that version as Hanger extender doesn't work yet in 1.1.3.

[Booots]

  On 8/12/2016 at 2:55 AM, The-Doctor said:

Is there a version of this mod that works for 1.1.2? I'm building a massive ship in that version as Hanger extender doesn't work yet in 1.1.3.

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Yep! Check the Github release page (https://github.com/DBooots/ESLDBeacons/releases) and you should find what you're looking for. Note that that will be at least one update behind and so will be missing features (and the bundled CRP will be grossly out of date). I might suggest trying the most recent one for 1.1.3, though. I suspect it may run on 1.1.2 alright. Either way, no updates are save-breaking so you'll be fine to use the old version for now and update when you're ready.

Thanks for the interest!

(P.S. Can I ask that you edit your post, please, and cut out the OP quote? It's just a minor pet peeve of mine when scrolling. Thanks!)

[The-Doctor]

@Boots I'm building a battlestar, I have included the launch tubes and all that can actually hold craft, it's massive, since hanger extender isn't yet up to date for 1.1.3 I have no choice but to use such. And thanks much for the link,I wish you could make at least one of them function without needing a beacon to target lol, just like in Battlestar Galactica, that would help me out greatly and  make this mod my sure go to mod. BTW, can the craft ump through planets? Like, if a planet is in the way would they phase through it?

[Booots]

  On 8/12/2016 at 3:11 AM, The-Doctor said:

I wish you could make at least one of them function without needing a beacon to target lol, just like in Battlestar Galactica, that would help me out greatly and  make this mod my sure go to mod. BTW, can the craft ump through planets? Like, if a planet is in the way would they phase through it?

Expand  

That sounds like an amazing project!

The problem with not needing a beacon to target is in defining the target orbit in terms of location and velocity. Having a beacon gives a pre-defined orbit that is really easy to use. Also, without needing a target beacon, you essentially have HyperEdit.

As far as planets: nope! If a planet is in the way, you cannot jump. Part of me wants to disable that and just crash the ship into the planet for maximum exploding-ness, but that'd be cruel. In fact, as it is, it isn't just the planet that blocks the line-of-sight needed to jump, but also the planet's gravity well as some beacons can't transfer into deep gravity. For example, the LB-100 can't even transfer something into Laythe orbit because Jool's gravity is too high. I use a relay in high Joolian orbit to receive and then forward it with an LB-10. Check out this page for more information on how gravity affects the jump.

[The-Doctor]

  On 8/12/2016 at 3:18 AM, Booots said:

That sounds like an amazing project!

The problem with not needing a beacon to target is in defining the target orbit in terms of location and velocity. Having a beacon gives a pre-defined orbit that is really easy to use. Also, without needing a target beacon, you essentially have HyperEdit.

As far as planets: nope! If a planet is in the way, you cannot jump. Part of me wants to disable that and just crash the ship into the planet for maximum exploding-ness, but that'd be cruel. In fact, as it is, it isn't just the planet that blocks the line-of-sight needed to jump, but also the planet's gravity well as some beacons can't transfer into deep gravity. For example, the LB-100 can't even transfer something into Laythe orbit because Jool's gravity is too high. I use a relay in high Joolian orbit to receive and then forward it with an LB-10. Check out this page for more information on how gravity affects the jump.

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Nice, well I was hoping to use the Alcubierre standalone drive to warp the ship to locations, then other ships can follow using the beacons. Your mod seems super awesome btw. Ounce I'm done with buidling the battlestar I'll post it on KerbalX and link you it. I'm nearly done with the super structure and that's with 2 days of work.

[linuxgurugamer]

You could also try using this mod (another FTL mod I'm maintaining):  https://spacedock.info/mod/835/FTL Drive Continued

It should work in 1.1.2, if it doesn't, let me know and I can do a quick 1.1.2 build

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by linuxgurugamer

[fritobandito]

Are there any situations where a Beacon will send to another identical beacon, but the receiving beacon can not send back? 

I'm having an issue where I have a lb100 at Kerbin, Eve, and Sarnus. Identical setups in terms of power generations, addons, etc. Kerbin and Sarnus can send both ways, yet neither show Eve in their context menu. Eve is able to send one way to Kerbin, and Sarnus does not show in its warp menu. 

[Luxord52]

  On 8/15/2016 at 10:07 PM, fritobandito said:

Are there any situations where a Beacon will send to another identical beacon, but the receiving beacon can not send back? 

I'm having an issue where I have a lb100 at Kerbin, Eve, and Sarnus. Identical setups in terms of power generations, addons, etc. Kerbin and Sarnus can send both ways, yet neither show Eve in their context menu. Eve is able to send one way to Kerbin, and Sarnus does not show in its warp menu. 

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Are you far enough out that the gravity well has no impact? If so, can you try and replicate the situation in a new save with hyperedit to confirm that the problem persists?

[TMarkos]

  On 8/15/2016 at 10:10 PM, Luxord52 said:

Are you far enough out that the gravity well has no impact? If so, can you try and replicate the situation in a new save with hyperedit to confirm that the problem persists?

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Gravity well shouldn't make a difference, the list should be a full inventory of active non-self beacons and would then show blocked transfers as such. I suspect that the problem stems from a change to the target generation code that DBooots made to resolve a key duplication error - he predicted the possibility in a comment.  The comment is line 173 in ESLDHailer.cs. This in turn seems to reflect a tendency by KSP to treat two distinct parts as identical in some cases. I have a sneaky suspicion that it has to do with some generalization it's making as part of performance optimization for unloaded craft. Solution is probably to move away from using the module itself as the far target key and instead use the parent vessel, or a unique id if that has the same problem.