Cant Deploy While Stowed is BACK?!?

[AlamoVampire]

OK. House Keeping: Mods, not sure where this really should be, not a game play question per-se, not a glitch near as I can tell <not a programmer so, not sure to be honest> so I dont think support for either modded OR un-modded is the place to go, if you know a better home than general, place this there

House Keeping done. Onto the issue.

I could SWEAR the whole "Cannot deploy while stowed" thing was tackled. This will contain 4 pictures. 1 taken on Minmus, sorry for the quality, its a picture from my cellphone, the original image taken via F1 was lost when I slash and burned my install trying to sort out a different issue, so, this was the only image I have, is version 1.0.4 KSP with the landing gear fully deployed on minmus with Jeb looking into the flight deck at Bob. only the payload has changed, a docking adapter set that got left in orbit as a station hub. The remaining 3 pictures are KSP 1.1.3. 

KSP 1.0.4: Goliath Class Shuttle landed at Minmus. Gear Deployed.

------------

KSP 1.1.2: Goliath Class Shuttle on orbit at Kerbin during landing gear check prior to de-orbit burn and associated message:

KSP 1.1.2: Goliath Class Shuttle on parachute descent, showing nose gear doors and associated message:

KSP 1.1.2: Goliath Class Shuttle on parachute descent, showing nose gear doors and associated message lateral view:

 

Now, with these 4 images in place, the only thing I changed on the Goliath between KSP versions 1.0.4 and today in 1.1.2 was again as mentioned a docking port adapter set that was later in flight left as a station core. No other things on the Goliath were changed. Why the change in ability to deploy gear? Anyone have any ideas?

Mod List:

Novapunch - current version is for KSP 1.0.2 - Tiberion has yet to update KSP for 1.1.x only known issue is with a single rocket motor causing lag and it is NOT present on Goliath.
MechJeb - Current version is for KSP 1.1.2.
Procedural Fairings: Current version for 1.1.2
KIS/KAS: current version for 1.1.2

 

[Majorjim!]

What happened to the wings??

[AlamoVampire]

@Majorjim Got out of balance when i tried to adjust course. Began a hard roll i could not stop. Aero forces shredded the wings. 

But my main concern is the cant deploy while stowed.... Nose wheel refused to deploy... Still no word by anyone on this...worried i am. Makes goliath unfit for duty.

[Majorjim!]

Are they movable when loaded onto the pad? 

[AlamoVampire]

@Majorjim The three mains in the rear move perfectly. Its just the nose wheel thats being cranky. If you look at the two or so pics with the window up its saying its blocked but its clearly not being obstructed.

[Majorjim!]

Is it anywhere near a fairing or cargo bay? And how did you lower them for the first pic?

[Adelaar]

Well, since there was no update, it isn't back. Just verified with my VTOL craft; engines still activate whilst in a closed cargo bay... So there must be something else going on.

[AlamoVampire]

@Majorjim The on orbit deploy was with default G. The cargo bay is just behind the mk3 cockpit, but  the attachment point for the nose gear is the cockpit. The same EXACT spot its attached while parked on minmus in that first picture. The craft itself is 100% unaltered between minmus in 1.0.4 and as you see it in the 3 other pictures. Only change was a docking port adapter that got left in orbit 2 minutes before checking the gear. 

@Adelaar The issue isnt engines on this "while stowed" its my nose gear on the goliath. It worked in 1.0.4 but in 1.1.2 its declaring itself as stowed and refuses deployment. Which again is odd as its (payload not withstanding) unchanged from 1.0.4 till now.

Edited June 11, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[Majorjim!]

Try removing the wheel and replacing it. Maybe the craft file was corrupted in some way.

[Adelaar]

11 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

 

@Adelaar The issue isnt engines on this "while stowed" its my nose gear on the goliath. It worked in 1.0.4 but in 1.1.2 its declaring itself as stowed and refuses deployment. Which again is odd as its (payload not withstanding) unchanged from 1.0.4 till now.

Yes, I understand, but I reckon that the mechanic is the same for both the bay doors and the gears... But I could of course be mistaken.

[AlamoVampire]

Ok first, I shall reply to @Adelaar I think it is a glitch now, i think. Also, stowed is stowed as far as I know, but as to why this is happening, I have no clue and these next 2 pictures are going to muddy the water more. Taken less than 15 minutes prior to this posting. I also want to bring this back to the attention of @Arsonide as this is more data for him.

First Picture is Goliath on the launch pad minus its launcher so we have a clear view of its nose wheel and 3 main gear. I hit G on the launch pad to test. They deployed normally, ALL of them. See here midway thru deployment:

Second Picture is Goliath launching without its launcher to test the gear. As you see, the 3 mains near the engines are deploying normally, the nose, once again is refusing to deploy, it should be noted that the time interval between this shot and the prior shot is under 60 seconds with no reverts or alterations other than the staging to push the clamps all into the same stage for me to launch and not drop Goliath on its engine bells. As with the first picture in this post, I used G to trigger the deployment of the gear.

I tried this a few more times reverting to VAB each time. It does NOT matter where the actual attachment point is for that nose gear. I removed it at the suggestion of @Majorjim and then reattached it above the RCS block and used the move tool and rotation tool to lower the gear back to its "normal" location and it STILL refused to deploy. The real head scratcher is this: On 1 of 5 trials the gear with it installed in its "normal" location functioned as expected. The same held true for 1 of 4 trials with it in its "adjusted" positions. Something is rather wrong here. 

 

[Bigbootie]

Does using the off set tool and pulling it out from the surface a little more help?

[AlamoVampire]

no help at all.  

[kBob]

Just out of curiosity if you don't use move/rotate/off set tools i.e. just delete it and then stick on a new one as near as you can to the trouble spot, will it deploy (I know it won't be in the right spot/orientation, but I've been seeing some occasional weird things when I rotate my gear or other parts, though not being able to deploy isn't one of them)?

[AlamoVampire]

@kBob i will give that a try shortly, but, i doubt it will fix it, as its seemingly intermittent if my prior tests this evening are any hint. and getting it back in the right spot via delete shouldnt be too much trouble, i deliberately placed it on a line in the first place XD

 

UPDATE:::

@kBob this update is for you sir. The first picture is after removing the nose gear entirely and replacing it. On the pad, it all works fine:

and after hitting G to pull the gear in, I throttle up, lock on SAS, and well, it refuses to deploy the landing gear again, and total time lapsed between both these shots, less than 60 seconds:

as you see, it didnt help. For some reason the gear THINKS its in the cargo bay I think. 

Ok. I am exceedingly frustrated by this. SO. Here is what I am going to ask: Below you will find a copy of the Goliath Class Shuttle MK3 <the ship that is having issues>. I ask anyone who is interested to help. Please note, this craft is UNALTERED from its original state. I cannot remember if I left the docking adapter in it or not, so that may be the only alteration. SPECIAL NOTE: IF you wish to see what is happening for yourself, you MUST HAVE THE FOLLOWING MODS: Novapunch and MechJeb or you will not be able to load this craft. 

http://www.filedropper.com/goliathclassshuttlemk3 is Goliath

below is a link to NovaPunch to save you the effort of <if you do not already have the mod> hunting it down as it is NOT on curse. 

 

 

and just for speed sake: mechjeb above this line  hope you guys see something I am missing.

Edited June 12, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[Arsonide]

If you could create a stock ship that can reproduce this issue, that would help us set up an issue for the testers. There's nothing special about how wheels check their shielded state - it's the same check that many other parts perform, so something is going on with either where it thinks the cargo bay is, or where it thinks the wheel is.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Arsonide

[kBob]

Well it was a shot in the dark.  Ok I got MecJeb and NovaPunch and loaded your ship.  Put it on the launch pad and all gear extended and retract just fine, so I'd say either you have some other mod that is causing problems or possibly your installation of KSP has a problem, so first try and disable all other mods and see if that fixes the problem, otherwise maybe you could try reinstalling KSP for a fresh start.

[AlamoVampire]

@kBob If you only did it on the launch pad thats the same behavior i saw on launch pad. It refuses to deploy in flight. Kick it clear of the launch pad and the nose wheel gets cranky.

 

[kBob]

Ooops, misunderstood.  Ok have the same problem: it's stowed after launch.  So as to other mods the only mod I have besides the two needed for this is a texture mod for the navball.  So seems like the problem is either with one of the two mods or in the stock game.  I'll play around a bit with a couple of long-shot ideas I have but I think if you can rebuild it  just using stock parts, like Arsonide suggested,  by disabling Nova Punch (which I notice doesn't seem to have been updated since 1.0), that might help narrow the problem down to either the mod or the stock game. 

Another thought occurs: I think what you are saying is this model file is from 1.0.4 in which case I'm wondering if rebuilding from scratch in 1.1.2 might help (a bit of a pain but might be something to try, and might be worth a try before building a stock version)?  I have no idea I just started everything over didn't try to use any old files.

Edit:

Oh got it to work!  I used the move tool to pull the gear out as far as it would go and to move it towards the nose slightly.  Now it extends and retracts after launch.  Not sure if it will effect landing as I'm not a space plane pilot.

Edited June 12, 2016 by kBob

[AlamoVampire]

@kBob The nose wheel was put in its starting location because of the raw weight of that shuttle, it had a tendency to rip the flight deck off on landing on prior iterations, MK2 and MK1 to be frank. I have submitted a stock shuttle to one of the developers for dissemination to the experimentals team that is showing the exact same behavior the Goliath is. I hope it helps solve this. Why it works in the clamps and then refuses to in flight is curious.

[kBob]

Did you try it with the gear moved slightly towards the nose where it will work for now, it wasn't much movement so it might still be ok for landing, at least until the bug is found and fixed.

[AlamoVampire]

@kBob I can give it a try. At worst i can come down on chutes still lol

[Overland]

Are you sure thier intact? On the rare occasion I fly planes its to scout out terrain..im no good at space so its always atmospheric

I still need to get there fast as i never use time acceleration

Ive had deployed gear burn off before..it doesnt leave any visible scars.. They just look like closed gear pods once the explosion happens

IF its superheated while deployed

 

Try entering with gear down and youll see..

 

Are you triggering gear by accident?

[AlamoVampire]

@Overland I want to direct your attention to a few things. First: when this issue was encountered it was post launch, while in orbit. The vessel saw normal heating during launch. Second: I conducted further experiments to confirm this is happening right out of the gate. Please see the posts 8 slots up above you and 12 slots above you. I direct your attention to the following key facts: The refusal to deploy is happening moment AFTER LAUNCH. This is NOT a heating issue, nor trigger by accident. This is a genuine issue. I have supplied to arsonide as per his request a stock parts only shuttle that is displaying this same issue. There is something amiss here, and its not user error. I want to also make a point of @kBob using my copy of the vessel with its launcher intact is seeing the SAME THING. Further, while STILL ON PAD, and this is important, while STILL ON PAD ALL gear deploy as expected. Retract them in, launch, let it climb a moment and try to deploy again, the rear sets deploy while the nose refuses to "deploy while stowed". 

[Overland]

Well arnt you nice.. If I could downvote I would.. Instead enjoy the reporting

Nice is better..screaming at the world is not.

Perhaps your landing gear doesnt like you ...i direct your attention to YOURSELF 

Spoiler

Landing gear works fine for me, its your design..

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Overland