Kerbal Powered Flight challenges

[TheDestroyer111]

7 minutes ago, Cunjo Carl said:

He let go of the ladder and hit the timewarp button instantly afterwards, so the Kerbal and the craft still had the same velocity. Hope you don't mind me answering the question, @Concodroid, I was just watching and noticed that myself, so I was excited to give the answer.

For others that haven't yet, ^ ^ ^ ^ watch that video ^ ^ ^ ^ It's super informative.

The one piece I'll amend is I believe physicless parts now have mass, but that mass is applied at your craft's COM. Just something I found goofing around in 1.05.

The velocity may be the same, but with the large amounts of time it takes to get to the mun, even the tiny difference in the location of the COM of the ketbal and the probe can make things more complex.

[Cunjo Carl]

17 minutes ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

The velocity may be the same, but with the large amounts of time it takes to get to the mun, even the tiny difference in the location of the COM of the ketbal and the probe can make things more complex.

Definitely, I believe you're right, and that's why at 1:19 the Kerbal is a few meters away from the craft. I've never made a ladder-drive. Would we normally expect more than this in practice? It seems the original question is still unanswered, @Concodroid, sorry for muddying things!

I was toying with making a ladder drive with a Command seat on, to address this issue for an interplanetary flight. My hope is that the mass of the command seat will be not-too-huge relative to the mass of the craft+Kerbal. I guess we'll see!

[Concodroid]

2 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

He let go of the ladder and hit the timewarp button instantly afterwards, so the Kerbal and the craft still had the same velocity. Hope you don't mind me answering the question, @Concodroid, I was just watching and noticed that myself, so I was excited to give the answer.

For others that haven't yet, ^ ^ ^ ^ watch that video ^ ^ ^ ^ It's super informative.

The one piece I'll amend is I believe physicless parts now have mass, but that mass is applied at your craft's COM. Just something I found goofing around in 1.05.

I thought so too...

[He_162]

If people ask questions, and you know the answer, go ahead and answer!

 

I will update the listings, if you managed to make a kerbal powered vehicle, then go ahead and take the picture and put it in your signature if you want!

[Cunjo Carl]

Welp, I made this and now I'm not sure it fits the rules! Normally I'd do a long silly imgur post, but I figure I'll just do a short one and get the yay/nay first. Text block go!

I've actually blended a couple of glitches to make a ladder glitch drive ship that's controllable while climbing, and interplanetary capable. There's a glitch I came across back in my speedrunning days, which was really quite obnoxious. Time to finally make use of it! If you focus on your ladder ship's probe core, turn on SAS, and hold alt+Q and alt+A for just a moment each, you'll setup a state where the craft wants to trim but can't. Then, when you switch back to your Kerbal and start climbing, you gain access to the Q and A (roll and yaw) controls of the ship! If you press either of those buttons, it'll obey its trim in that direction, meaning that you can both roll and pitch in one direction only. With a bit of practice, it's plenty of control to maneuver a nice ascent profile and keep yourself on track during landings without flipping between ships like a schizophrenic. You can actually fly a ladder ship!

I'm happy to finally make use of this glitch, which I called the Simon Says glitch. It normally struck me by flipping my out my landers, who tried to copy me while I was trying plant flags all fast and clean. Took me hours to figure out why it happened sometimes and not others. Trim! Hah. As a note, you can press alt+X to clear your trim so it doesn't happen while you're EVAing.

So, then I reread the SAS rule and I'm a bit confused. Does that prohibit me from using this control-while-climbing glitch? If so, what was its original intent? I'm happy in any case; I'm super stoked about finding a sweet use for nasty old 'Simon Says'.

As a note for time warping. It's easy to get to the Mun, and Minmus with a standard ladder ship, but interplanatary missions will be tricky if Kerbal and ladder-ship are separate during time warps. Chairs solve the problem at an enormous TWR cost. I also tried boosting ladder-drive TWR by having the Kerbal collide with multiple surfaces simultaneously, but it didn't work, unfortunately. I also tried colliding with different kinds of surfaces (like rover wheel tops) and also found no effect. The force seems to come from the point of contact between Kerbal noggin and ship, but it also seems completely irrespective of how this point of contact works. Odd.... Anyone know more about the mechanics? I'm very curious.

[He_162]

On 7/16/2016 at 9:19 PM, Cunjo Carl said:

Welp, I made this and now I'm not sure it fits the rules! Normally I'd do a long silly imgur post, but I figure I'll just do a short one and get the yay/nay first. Text block go!

I've actually blended a couple of glitches to make a ladder glitch drive ship that's controllable while climbing, and interplanetary capable. There's a glitch I came across back in my speedrunning days, which was really quite obnoxious. Time to finally make use of it! If you focus on your ladder ship's probe core, turn on SAS, and hold alt+Q and alt+A for just a moment each, you'll setup a state where the craft wants to trim but can't. Then, when you switch back to your Kerbal and start climbing, you gain access to the Q and A (roll and yaw) controls of the ship! If you press either of those buttons, it'll obey its trim in that direction, meaning that you can both roll and pitch in one direction only. With a bit of practice, it's plenty of control to maneuver a nice ascent profile and keep yourself on track during landings without flipping between ships like a schizophrenic. You can actually fly a ladder ship!

I'm happy to finally make use of this glitch, which I called the Simon Says glitch. It normally struck me by flipping my out my landers, who tried to copy me while I was trying plant flags all fast and clean. Took me hours to figure out why it happened sometimes and not others. Trim! Hah. As a note, you can press alt+X to clear your trim so it doesn't happen while you're EVAing.

So, then I reread the SAS rule and I'm a bit confused. Does that prohibit me from using this control-while-climbing glitch? If so, what was its original intent? I'm happy in any case; I'm super stoked about finding a sweet use for nasty old 'Simon Says'.

As a note for time warping. It's easy to get to the Mun, and Minmus with a standard ladder ship, but interplanatary missions will be tricky if Kerbal and ladder-ship are separate during time warps. Chairs solve the problem at an enormous TWR cost. I also tried boosting ladder-drive TWR by having the Kerbal collide with multiple surfaces simultaneously, but it didn't work, unfortunately. I also tried colliding with different kinds of surfaces (like rover wheel tops) and also found no effect. The force seems to come from the point of contact between Kerbal noggin and ship, but it also seems completely irrespective of how this point of contact works. Odd.... Anyone know more about the mechanics? I'm very curious.

A probe core and SAS can be used to hold the craft steady, and to maneuver it, however, the only thing that is allowed to move the craft by acceleration is the kerbal.

 

The SAS is there purely to maneuver you and point you in the direction you wanna go.

[Cunjo Carl]

Just now, He_162 said:

A probe core and SAS can be used to hold the craft steady, and to maneuver it, however, the only thing that is allowed to move the craft by acceleration is the kerbal.
The SAS is there purely to maneuver you and point you in the direction you wanna go.

Ohhhh. That makes sense. 'Cause RCS thrusters and reaction wheel props. Right, thanks!

 

[Pds314]

On 6/12/2016 at 10:40 PM, vger said:

I wonder why the movement of the craft is so much greater than the movement of the Kerbal? It would stand to reason that the craft should only climb as fast as a Kerbal on a ladder, and I don't think that would even be enough 'thrust' to escape Minmus.

This relates to the Oberth effect. I once climbed to LEO by ladder in realism overhaul.

 

Basically, Kerbals exert about 2 G of thrust. At their normal walking speed, the excess power generated is minimal. I.e. 1.8 kN at 1 m/s on a ladder is about 1800 watts, which is a lot, but not too much.

But 1.8 kN on a craft moving the speed of sound is about 600 kilowatts. That's about as powerful as a Bugatti Veyron or an early WW2 piston engine.

Or better yet, 1.8 kN at 8 km/s is about as powerful as the thrust from an early jet fighter engine.

So once you get much faster than walking speed, you are generating much more energy output than you're putting in, and remember that climb rate is all about power.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Pds314

[TheGuyNamedAlan]

well i guess i'm in?? :DDDD

On 13/06/2016 at 10:56 AM, Concodroid said:

Wait i got it!

 

how do you record ur screen????