[1.12.x] The Maritime Pack v0.1.19

[adsii1970]

1 minute ago, Fengist said:

I feel your pain. I started modding on a 10 year old AMD quad core with 8 gigs of ram and 32 bit Windoze... it was horrid.  I finally broke down and spent the money for a new machine.  And people like you are why I try to keep all the parts in distinct directories.  They can easily delete specific types of ships they don't want, like the paddle.  One of the things I hated on my old machine was downloading a monstrous pack like B9 and having a gazillion parts I didn't want or need.

 

I'm glad that you do and it is for that very reason I refuse to ever use B9 parts again. If I were to create mods, I would actually do something similar to what you are doing with the exception that the entire package would be broken into smaller, user friendly nodes. I would have a general mod, like you have here for those who sorta (like me) know what they are doing. I would then have it broken into a core mod (the basic parts, dlls, and configs needed), then add-on mods for those less inclined. Being in the higher education field, I understand that there are those, that no matter how many times you try and show them, they NEVER catch on... if you understand what I mean.

5 minutes ago, Fengist said:

While I'm here...

My assumption earlier today that I would get the cat out for alpha this coming week may have been a tad premature.  I got a phone call today and for the next 3-6 weeks I'll be working from 5 a.m. till dark, 7 days a week.  I suspect my desire to 'think' will be very limited for the coming weeks.  I will ATTEMPT to get the cat out this weekend for testing so that you guys will have it for probably a month in advance of it being added to the pack.  No promises tho.

No rush. Real life always has priority over KSP. Go do what you have to do.  We can patiently wait.

[Fengist]

1 minute ago, adsii1970 said:

I'm glad that you do and it is for that very reason I refuse to ever use B9 parts again. If I were to create mods, I would actually do something similar to what you are doing with the exception that the entire package would be broken into smaller, user friendly nodes. I would have a general mod, like you have here for those who sorta (like me) know what they are doing. I would then have it broken into a core mod (the basic parts, dlls, and configs needed), then add-on mods for those less inclined. Being in the higher education field, I understand that there are those, that no matter how many times you try and show them, they NEVER catch on... if you understand what I mean.

No rush. Real life always has priority over KSP. Go do what you have to do.  We can patiently wait.

I used to do that before I went on sabbatical.  I had a sub pack, paddle pack and the carrier pack.  And while they did get downloads, they were a fraction of what the all-in-one pack got. So, for now I'm just doing the one.  One of these days, in the not too distant future, this pack will have to come to a stop. While I'm not out of ideas, there's already 69 parts in the pack.  If I keep adding and adding and adding, it'll become a monstrosity.  I won't stop keeping it updated, but I may move on to other less nautical ideas.

One of the things I hope I stumble onto is an idea for 'what to do.'  You eventually reach a point in KSP where going to a planet you've been to before just has no appeal.  You get decent enough at building and flying that even that's not uch of a challenge. It's a huge complaint I have about this game.  You spend all that time building the rocket to get you there and when you land, build your base... etc... there's nothing to do.  I have a huge base on the Mun, but there's no reason to go there now. *shrug*

Or, I just may go sailing, I never know.

[adsii1970]

Just now, Fengist said:

One of the things I hope I stumble onto is an idea for 'what to do.'  You eventually reach a point in KSP where going to a planet you've been to before just has no appeal.  You get decent enough at building and flying that even that's not uch of a challenge. It's a huge complaint I have about this game.  You spend all that time building the rocket to get you there and when you land, build your base... etc... there's nothing to do.  I have a huge base on the Mun, but there's no reason to go there now. *shrug*

Or, I just may go sailing, I never know.

I felt that way when .24 was out. I still play fairly regularly. Each game I start, I try a different strategy to see what will happen. I prefer sandbox games, I've learned, because the career modes become predictable and once it is mastered, it is too easy to repeat it again. In sandbox, for example, I can define the scope of various missions. For example, my current sandbox game is that each vehicle, except for rockets, must be:

• Reusable - meaning it must have the ability to be refueled.
• Multi-puropose
• and appear... Kerbal!

[Fengist]

23 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

I felt that way when .24 was out. I still play fairly regularly. Each game I start, I try a different strategy to see what will happen. I prefer sandbox games, I've learned, because the career modes become predictable and once it is mastered, it is too easy to repeat it again. In sandbox, for example, I can define the scope of various missions. For example, my current sandbox game is that each vehicle, except for rockets, must be:

• Reusable - meaning it must have the ability to be refueled.
• Multi-puropose
• and appear... Kerbal!

I got so bored once, I circumnavigated Eve... by rover.

I just wish there was more to do on these planets than stupid science and drill for ore so you can make more fuel so you can go to more planets so you drill for ore so you can.... etc.

[adsii1970]

Just now, Fengist said:

I got so bored once, I circumnavigated Eve... by rover.

I just wish there was more to do on these planets than stupid science and drill for ore so you can make more fuel so you can go to more planets so you drill for ore so you can.... etc.

Wow. That is bad. One of the things I have done is to try and master new skills... this particular saved game I am playing is full of examples - if I am using a rocket with capsule, I can either land within 5k of a recovery vessel OR within 10k of the KSC. Talk about a challenge!

[Fengist]

You haven't seen bad yet. Let me show you where I was almost 2 years ago... and then a year ago

One thing you may find interesting, on the second video, there's 2 white 90 degree parts on the elbows... that's the first part I ever made.

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Fengist

[Fengist]

Catapult Alpha Test

The catapult alpha test is now up and ready.  To install, simply unzip to your GameData directory.  Hopefully I have everything where it should be so that when/if the final release comes out, it'll be overwritten.

Suggested method for building:

There's 2 parts, the catapult and the catapult shuttle.  The shuttle attaches to the aircraft by surface mounting and then, to the catapult via the node.  You have it correct when you 'extend' the shuttle and it moves outward to match the node location. (For now, the node is fixed and if the shuttle is retracted, it's no where near the end of the shuttle.  That's just the way it is.  If you look at Squad's only animated dock, you can't even attach anything to it in the hangar.)  Make sure the shuttle is directly below the aircraft center of mass!

Take your finished aircraft and as the last piece, add the shuttle.  Then save it as an assembly. Make sure you have landing gear on the aircraft.  At present the catapult looks for it and refuses to launch if none is present.  (A safety measure to keep from launching Kerbals on the flight deck.)  Also make sure there's an engine. Again, the cat will refuse to launch anything without one.

Take your finished boat (or rover or whatever) and make the last piece the catapult.  Drag the aircraft assembly into the editor and, if everything worked correctly, the docking node for the catapult and the docking node for the aircraft should be available to connect.

Suggested method for usage:

These two parts are docking ports.  When disconnected, the only thing keeping your aircraft sitting on the catapult are the mesh colliders. While the catapult's connector is concave and the shuttle is convex, there's still a lot of physics being applied to them. You'll want to make sure that you're not moving before undocking (a requirement before you can even launch).  Turn the SAS on to help keep the aircraft steady while you transition to it.  Activate your engine and set your throttle to 0 and you may want to retract your landing gear.

When you're ready, hit the Tab key.  Your throttle will be automatically set to maximum and you'll be pitched off the catapult at an alarming rate of speed. (assuming everything goes well.  If not, please refer to my video of the The LIFE of a KSP Modder for a graphical representation of the consequences.)

Feedback:

I probably won't have time in the next few weeks to get back to modding.  Please continue to leave feedback of the tests.  They will be read and I'll eventually respond.

DOWNLOAD 
Downloads to date: 

And here's just a BRIEF example of just a FRACTION of the work it took to make this one part.  Say you still want to be a modder?

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Fengist

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

5 minutes ago, Fengist said:

Catapult Alpha TesT

 

Great stuff i shall  be testing it immediately

Re the video, even though I mod ( and i feel your pain with the 300+ reloads to make this work)i couldn't help laughing a lot cheers

Edited July 9, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[Fengist]

5 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Great stuff i shall  be testing it immediately

Re the video, even though I mod ( and i feel your pain with the 300+ reloads to make this work)i couldn't help laughing a lot cheers

After what I went through to get that thing working, I had to look back and laugh, or I'd lose what's left of my mind.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@Fengist I Say old chap it appears that the downloaded ZIP contains no data, dl'd twice to make sure

[Fengist]

stand by...

 

@SpannerMonkey(smce) Try now.  I think my ftp program got jammed up when I uploaded it as I was also uploading the video.

 

Nope, hang on...

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Fengist

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@Fengist still  no data 

[Fengist]

7 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@Fengist still  no data 

@SpannerMonkey(smce)  Ok, think I got it fixed now.  For some reason, my download counter didn't like the file name.  *shrug*

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@Fengist All present and correct now Cheers

 

[Fengist]

1 minute ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@Fengist All present and correct now Cheers

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me, I would have assume it was all good.

[Fengist]

Need more alpha catapult testers.

[PDelta41]

 

On 7/13/2016 at 6:01 AM, Fengist said:

Need more alpha catapult testers.

I'd like to help test. I need a catapult to launch a SOC seaplane, and this looks very much like it. 

Also, any suggestions on where I can find better seaplane floats (than firespitter or SXT) and small hulls (RHIB or pinnace)?

[Fengist]

Thanks, just click on the link to take you to the post then, download and unzip it.  It'll add 2 new parts, the catapult and the 'shuttle'

Honestly, I have no idea on floats.  However, I can say this.  I do have a 3d model that I worked on at one time that has 2/3 of a float.  I have the mid section and the rear section already modeled.  I was working on making a retractable landing gear for the mid section, but with all the todo with wheels not working properly (and the fact that when I put them into the game and tried to extend the wheels it pitched them out the door of the SPH) I never finished them.

I may though go back and take another look at the models and see if I can't work up a float.  Once the CVL comes out I've already realized that folding wings are going to be needed so I may work up a few of those.

[PDelta41]

Yeah, wheels seem to be a thorny issue right now. Squad's own wheels work, but it seems that a lot of mods are on hold while they wait for a wheel fix. (I'm waiting too, stock landing gear are just too limited for my needs). Unfortunately I have no real understanding of how wheels really work; I get the collision mesh and the physics aspects of suspension and suchlike, but I haven't used modeling software at all, so the animations, transforms, and other model-dependent details kinda escape me. Most of the float planes I want to make don't have wheels at all, or if they do, they're to the sides of the float, rather than extending straight down (A PBY Catalina seems to me a worthy project, if terribly ambitious). 
I'll be glad to test (and help with hacking configs) with the float if you do decide to work on it, and the on folding wings as well (and any other neat parts down the road)

Results from initial catapult tests:
Works well, so long as the catapult is attached to something BIG (launch clamps don't work).
Some Firespitter engines (the biplane engine and procedural radial, at least) are not detected (they don't have fuel bars, so Squad may not recognize them either).
The shuttle tends to rotate axially in the connector if launch is delayed, even with well-balanced aircraft. (more angular collision meshes may help. Maybe)
Had to add a superfluous tailwheel to enable launch (Is a wheel plugin/module used to differentiate between nearby potential nearby kerbals and the aircraft to be launched?)
Eventually, it may be advisable to allow the launch force to be scaled (it launches my SOC fast enough to occasionally tear parts off)

Let me know if you'd prefer these reports in a different format, or pushed/pulled elsewhere. Also, I can provide screenshots if you'd like.

One last tidbit, for an eventual FAQ for this part; "Make sure your aircraft actually flies before blaming the catapult. If your plane (or other launched object) tries to fly backwards, porpoises, or tumbles, it may have all the aerodynamic grace of an umbrella dragged backwards. Runway-launched tests are advised." (I changed cockpits, and now my tail surfaces aren't working. Firespitter parts are rather buggy right now.)

Will continue testing over the weekend. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by PDelta41
minor English tweak

[Fengist]

@PDelta41 Thanks.  I don't have time for a detailed reply tonite.  Will try to get back to you in the next day or two.

I just stopped in to give a quick update on some other part/plugin testing I found time for.

Below is a video of me testing 3 parts (along with the CVL parts yet to come).  Arresting gear (which has been MUCH requested since I started this pack), a naval aircraft tailhook and a flush deck catapult.

And for those who remember him, Infinite Dice of Boat Parts gave me the starting code for this little project and a few arresting gear parts he made for his mod (yep, we still talk.  He & my wife are off slaying dragons in some silly MMO).  He has graciously allowed me to butcher what he'd already done. While the code now barely resembles what he gave me and I've reworked parts to fit my carriers and match the theme of Maritime Pack, the theory behind how this all works is entirely his. I just took a brilliant idea and ran with it. Thanks Dice!

Some things to take note of in the video:

Kerbal Laser Optical Landing System (K-LOLS).  Since seeing lights at a distance isn't practical (FLOLS) in KSP, I had to come up with something very basic that resembled what naval aviators call the meatball.  The K-LOLS is a laser that you can turn on and off and fires out the rear of the carrier.  It's also angled up around 5 degrees to provide you with a very rudimentary glide slope.  If you're heading toward the carrier and you're within roughly 5 degrees of the FLOLS beam, it will turn green to let you know you're on track.  If you're outside of the glide path, it turns red.  You'll see a notice at the top of the screen as I'm flying saying I'm in or out of the 'box.'  This is an invisible box around the FLOLS beam that determines when it turns colors. I may or may not leave that in the mod.

Sorry I couldn't give an external view of the landing, I'm still trying to get the hang of it and the easiest way I've found is via the cockpit view (even though it looks scarier from the inside).  I have managed to land several times in a row without cracking up, so it's very possible.

After landing, I raise the tailhook.  This will be a requirement for the arresting gear to work and, it must be deployed to at least some degree. Otherwise, the carrier will brand you a landlubber and not offer any braking assistance from the arresting gear.

You may have noticed that the brakes were automatically set on the aircraft by the arresting gear.  And while my throttle was pretty low on my approach, the arresting gear automatically cuts it to 0 throttle upon landing.

For those who haven't tried out the alpha test of the rotating catapult, you'll see me launch from a different type catapult in the forward deck.  You set the brakes, reduce the throttle to 0 and press the tab key.  Removing the brakes and maxing out the throttle will be done automatically when you get hurled off the deck.

Enjoy

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Fengist

[The Engineer]

Neat it's updated for the newest ksp release. Finally!

[Fengist]

10 hours ago, The Engineer said:

Neat it's updated for the newest ksp release. Finally!

Yep, if the guys testing the catapult come back with decent reports, the CVL, arresting gear, tailhook, both catapults and the catapult 'shuttle' will be in the next release.  After that, I plan on doing a bit of work on a few 'nautical' aviation parts, then over to the sub to add a few goodies to that and then... I think I'm going sailing.

 

[Fengist]

On 7/15/2016 at 11:22 AM, PDelta41 said:

Yeah, wheels seem to be a thorny issue right now. Squad's own wheels work, but it seems that a lot of mods are on hold while they wait for a wheel fix. (I'm waiting too, stock landing gear are just too limited for my needs). Unfortunately I have no real understanding of how wheels really work; I get the collision mesh and the physics aspects of suspension and suchlike, but I haven't used modeling software at all, so the animations, transforms, and other model-dependent details kinda escape me. Most of the float planes I want to make don't have wheels at all, or if they do, they're to the sides of the float, rather than extending straight down (A PBY Catalina seems to me a worthy project, if terribly ambitious). 
I'll be glad to test (and help with hacking configs) with the float if you do decide to work on it, and the on folding wings as well (and any other neat parts down the road)

Wheels are having issues with the colliders.  It's part of Unity's 'new' way of dealing with wheels. The switch from the old method to the new method has created some issues when colliders for the wheels are near other colliders. The wheels stop working.

The floats that I'm 2/3 of the way finished with are this style:

I have the rear and mid section done so they're actually going to be at least 3 parts.  You can make them longer by adding another mid section.  A PBY is a different animal.  That requires an entire aircraft frame with wheels.  Not getting into that anytime soon.  The floats I will make though will be usable as above, in a dual float configuration, or like this:

as a single main float with two smaller ones below the wings.  That's the theory I'm working on anyway.

As for testing, I always make a call out on these forums when I need alpha testers.  I don't have any group or collection of individuals.  Call it a 'reward' for begin a follower of this thread.  So, make sure you occasionally scroll back through this thread and see if you've missed an alpha test.

On 7/15/2016 at 11:22 AM, PDelta41 said:

Results from initial catapult tests:
Works well, so long as the catapult is attached to something BIG (launch clamps don't work).
Some Firespitter engines (the biplane engine and procedural radial, at least) are not detected (they don't have fuel bars, so Squad may not recognize them either).
The shuttle tends to rotate axially in the connector if launch is delayed, even with well-balanced aircraft. (more angular collision meshes may help. Maybe)
Had to add a superfluous tailwheel to enable launch (Is a wheel plugin/module used to differentiate between nearby potential nearby kerbals and the aircraft to be launched?)
Eventually, it may be advisable to allow the launch force to be scaled (it launches my SOC fast enough to occasionally tear parts off)

Let me know if you'd prefer these reports in a different format, or pushed/pulled elsewhere. Also, I can provide screenshots if you'd like.

One last tidbit, for an eventual FAQ for this part; "Make sure your aircraft actually flies before blaming the catapult. If your plane (or other launched object) tries to fly backwards, porpoises, or tumbles, it may have all the aerodynamic grace of an umbrella dragged backwards. Runway-launched tests are advised." (I changed cockpits, and now my tail surfaces aren't working. Firespitter parts are rather buggy right now.)

Will continue testing over the weekend. 

Yep, in the video of me blowing things up, the two front Clipper hulls are the liquid fuel variety.  It gave me the counterweight to keep the catapult on the ground.

Firespitter engines not being recognized:  Yep, you would be correct in that. And fortunately, that is a remnant of some failed code.  If you recall in the video of me making the catapult I had a LOT of failures with the aircraft getting pushed nose up during launch.  That code was an attempt to locate all of the engines (ModuleEngines and ModuleEnginesFX), locate their angle of thrust and then, locate the vessel's center of thrust and 'push' from there.  However that failed horribly and made it worse and I switched to another method.  I left the code in just in case I wanted to switch back.

For now, just use stock engines and if it all goes well, I'll pull that chunk of code out and it won't care what engines you have.

For the flush deck mounted catapult, there will be a requirement that you have at least one ModuleWheelBase which is on all stock landing gear.  For now, the test catapult also requires it but I'll remove that once I get catapult types plugged in (C1 - Flush mount, C2 - Rotating Mount).  As time goes on and I find other landing gear modules that don't have that module, I'll add them in. Yes, basically, that requirement will be to keep you from accidentally launching something other than an aircraft off the catapult.  For the C2 catapult (the one in the alpha) it will look for the shuttle part instead of a wheel.

Lol, I thot I toned it down a bit.  If, again, you watch the video of me making it, the first 'successful flight' the explosion in the background was from the landing gear getting ripped off the wings due to excessive launch forces.  If you look in the part.cfg for the catapult, you'll see a line:     

power_modifier = 100

Reduce that down a bit and it should stop it from ripping parts off.  I'm going to do some testing myself and try to cut that power in half, but make it take twice as long to accelerate.  Right now, after one second of 'pushing' the catapult shuts off.  I'm going to shoot for a 1-2 second 'push' with less power and see if that works.

Yep, again in the video you saw several of my aircraft fall off the launcher. I may try to shore up the sides a bit once I get the final shuttle model made. But even then, be prepared to launch quickly after undocking. It's dealing with some really strange physics of one part trying to balance on the other and KSP wasn't meant for that.

And this format is fine.  Add in any screenshots you wish. I always enjoy seeing how my parts are being used.  It gives me ideas (and occasional aneurysms).

And now... you know why I made that video.  A lot of the problems I had was the aircraft and not the catapult.

Thanks for the update!

[BT Industries]

Wow in a couple of weeks you have done what I always wanted!!!

I say the mod goes back to you no questions asked as you are much more skilled ( I am merely a .CFG Hacker)

All I wanted was to have a playable version and now that your back I don't need to continue working on this.

The community came up with many great ideas on my thread which you are way more qualified to implement.

Thanks again @Fengist

[PDelta41]

Those are exactly the floats I was looking for. And yeah, the PBY idea was totally said in a wistful manner. It would take complexity of parts similar to Nazari's shuttles, I imagine, with specialized air frame and hull parts, and they'd be pretty useless for anything else. 

Further tests with the catapult have shown good results, with consistent (if overpowered launching).

A new issue has cropped up with a new plane: if the root part is above or below the center of mass, the craft is given a nasty downward or upward (respectively) pitch. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I can sidestep that, so my craft isn't sent headlong into the runway or flipped like a coin. But definitely a thorny issue, and re-rooting to a docking port seems not to work at all. 

Also, saving as a subassembly isn't working, unless I re-root to the shuttle (which caused the coin-like backflipping mentioned earlier). 

Edited July 17, 2016 by PDelta41
Added subassembly bit