[1.2.1] Mini Sample Return Capsule - Bring your experiments home safe! (v1.2 9/Nov/2016)

[Deimos Rast]

On 7/12/2016 at 1:20 PM, CobaltWolf said:

 

I think it should be the opposite way around - perhaps make them use floats if that is installed. Though I'm not sure where you'd put them.

Could attach a USI airbag thing to the roof of the cargo hold (inside) and it'll probably clip through when deployed and save the day. Probably not the answer you were looking for.

I really think a lot of the buoyancy issue is having a lot of ablator, but I already mentioned that. Easy enough to crank up the buoyancy values, which I don't think has any ill effects.

This little guy seems really popular; now he just needs a cute moniker....

Edit: I call mine the "3xRC Rastian Return & Reentry Capsule" but you could probably substitute Rastian for Recovery, so it reads "3xRC Return, Reentry, & Recovery Capsule" . That order makes more sense, since that's the order it happens in!  Feel free to use if you like it.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[Drew Kerman]

On 7/12/2016 at 11:34 PM, StevieC said:

Re: floats, @sumghai has an inflatable parts plugin for his SDHI service-module-system's heat-shield

I thought I had seen another mod with floats but couldn't remember which one!

[Deimos Rast]

1 hour ago, Gaiiden said:

I thought I had seen another mod with floats but couldn't remember which one!

USI "SrvPack" has a ton, which is your best bet. Firespitter has some flotation/buoyancy devices for planes. As does SXT and it has some airbags which might have the FSBouyancy module. FASA has some floats too, but they're duds iirc.

Just remember: an airbag is not a flotation device (in USI). Seriously (completely different modules).

[DStaal]

The USI Survival Pack (SrvPack) has a lot of parts that go well with this: Monoprop engines and tanks that fit the 0.625 form factor, as well as solar panels and batteries that can extend your service life.

I'd almost want to ask for more ablator as a tweekable - I just built a science return capsule that's under a ton total and can return unaided from the surface of Minmus or Mun, with dv to spare.  A bit more ablator for areobraking, and it'd be able to return from Gilly or Ike...

[Sir_Fanch]

 @Ravenchant How goes the RO/RP-0 compatibility work? Can't wait to have this working for that . Let me know if you need any help with figuring out values or anything for balancing. I'm not smart enough to really help but if you need a second opinion I'd be happy to help anyway I can .

[carlorizzante]

Wow, that's nice. But I'm a bit confused at how it'd work in practice.

So you pack some of these capsules into your ship, land somewhere, get a sample and/or some science, pack it into a capsule, and send it back to Kerbin by itself. Then you move your ship to some other location, rinse and repeat... is that how you'd do it?

Which means that in order to actually get the capsule back to Kerbin by itself I have to add some more parts to it, engine, antennas, etc?

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, carlorizzante said:

Wow, that's nice. But I'm a bit confused at how it'd work in practice.

So you pack some of these capsules into your ship, land somewhere, get a sample and/or some science, pack it into a capsule, and send it back to Kerbin by itself. Then you move your ship to some other location, rinse and repeat... is that how you'd do it?

Which means that in order to actually get the capsule back to Kerbin by itself I have to add some more parts to it, engine, antennas, etc?

It has a built in antenna. You could deorbit it with a small Sepratron sized srb from another mod. The idea is it either has experiments crammed inside for a probe like OSIRIS-Rex, which jettisons the capsule for reentry, or it has science data manually put into the sample storage by a Kerbal for return to Kerbin.

What's become clear is that everyone has a different way they want to use the parts, and they are all a bit different. So we have to work to try and either meet everyone's needs, or at least make the intended use more obvious.

[DStaal]

Untested, but here's an AR config:  (it makes the antenna exactly half as strong as the standard whip antenna.)

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:FOR[AntennaRange]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter]
	{
		@name = ModuleLimitedDataTransmitter
		nominalRange = 3182
		simpleRange = 10250000
		maxPowerFactor = 8
		maxDataFactor = 4
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleScienceContainer

		dataIsCollectable = true
		dataIsStorable = false

		storageRange = 2
	}
}

 

[Deimos Rast]

9 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Untested, but here's an AR config:  (it makes the antenna exactly half as strong as the standard whip antenna.)

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:FOR[AntennaRange]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDataTransmitter]
	{
		@name = ModuleLimitedDataTransmitter
		nominalRange = 3182
		simpleRange = 10250000
		maxPowerFactor = 8
		maxDataFactor = 4
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleScienceContainer

		dataIsCollectable = true
		dataIsStorable = false

		storageRange = 2
	}
}

 

I'm unsure of how AR works, but I think they already (or are planning to) added a science container to the Probe - will that conflict with your Sci Container?

[DStaal]

9 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

I'm unsure of how AR works, but I think they already (or are planning to) added a science container to the Probe - will that conflict with your Sci Container?

If there is one than it can be removed from this config - though I didn't see one when I looked through the config for the part.  Given the way MM works, if there is one the above shouldn't affect it.  (It's a blind add - which won't modify one that's already there.)

AR does need there to be one though, from what I understand.  (I'm not sure if it really needs one if you're only trying to add it to the network - AR basically does a 'store and forward at the antenna' for transmissions, and that's not the main purpose of having this antenna - but I'd expect sooner or later someone would cause issues if it wasn't there.)

[WuphonsReach]

FASA also has the Apollo/Gemini style floats.  There's a 1/3 ring suitable for the base of a 2.5m cone (too big for this), plus the Gemini/Apollo style spherical bags.

I use the USI ones though for my Station Science return pods.

[CobaltWolf]

There will be no float requirements for the mod, the capsule will float on its own. If y'all can agree on a MM config that makes them necessary, I can link it in the OP.

[rasta013]

On 7/14/2016 at 0:01 PM, Deimos Rast said:

I'm unsure of how AR works, but I think they already (or are planning to) added a science container to the Probe - will that conflict with your Sci Container?

Nope it won't.  The SciContainer added in through AR just becomes redundant.  You typically would remove that from an AR patch once it's been added to a part however since it's unnecessary. 

[Ravenchant]

On 14. 7. 2016 at 9:26 AM, Sir_Fanch said:

 @Ravenchant How goes the RO/RP-0 compatibility work? Can't wait to have this working for that . Let me know if you need any help with figuring out values or anything for balancing. I'm not smart enough to really help but if you need a second opinion I'd be happy to help anyway I can .

 

The real-life equivalent that looks most like it would be the Chinese capsule (to be) used on Chang'e 5 missions, but it's rather beefy. You won't mind lugging 600 kg of equipment around just to return some samples?

 

Edit: @CobaltWolf RO stuff is done, or at the very least close enough for the parts to be usable- I ended up turning it into something similar to this even though lots of things are a bit off, but if it's meant to be more of a Corona-type affair I can redo it. Prices and tech tree integration for RP-0 will need to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me =P

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_CargoBay]:FOR[RealismOverhaul]
{
	%RSSROConfig = True
	!MODULE[TweakScale]
	{
	}
	@MODEL
	{
		scale = 2.333 , 2.333 , 2.333
	}
	%node_stack_top2 = 0.0, 0.5105, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
	%node_stack_bottom2 = 0.0, 0.09892, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1

	%node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.53776, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
	%node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.18664, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
	
	@mass = 0.350
	@title = Large sample return capsule (cargo bay & heat shield) [1.4m]
	@manufacturer = Various
	@description = Lower part of a rather large and heavy return capsule, attaches below the avionics part. Its heatshield can withstand a Lunar return with at least 140 kg (tested) of rocks, top-secret film or whatever else you may want to return. [Diameter: 1.4 m]
	%skinMaxTemp = 3600
	%maxTemp = 1000
	@buoyancy = 1.2
	
	!MODULE[ModuleAblator] {}
	!RESOURCE[Ablator] {}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblator
		ablativeResource = Ablator
		outputResource = CharredAblator
		lossExp = -7500
		lossConst = 0.10
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		ablationTempThresh = 400
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		charMax = 1
		charMin = 1
	}

	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]:NEEDS[DeadlyReentry]
	{
		@name = ModuleHeatShield
		depletedMaxTemp = 1200
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ablator
		amount = 50
		maxAmount = 50
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = CharredAblator
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 50
	}
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:FOR[RealismOverhaul]
{
	%RSSROConfig = True
	!MODULE[TweakScale]
	{
	}
	@MODEL
	{
		scale = 2.333 , 2.333 , 2.333
	}

	%node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.10965, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
	
	@mass = 0.110
	@title = Large sample return capsule (avionics, parachute & RCS) [1.4m]
	@manufacturer = Various
	@description = Top part of a rather large and heavy return capsule. Features 8 attitude control thrusters, avionics and a parachute. Its batteries only store a day's worth of power and the built-in antenna has short range so make sure to include a service module when returning from, say, the Moon. [Diameter: 1.4m]
	@buoyancy = 1.2
	%maxTemp = 1000
	
	!RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}
	!MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel] {}
	!RESOURCE[ElectricCharge] {}

	@MODULE[ModuleCommand]
	{
		RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			rate = 0.05
		}
	}
	
	@MODULE[ModuleRCS]
	{
		@thrusterPower = 0.075
		!resourceName = DELETE
		!PROPELLANT {}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Hydrazine
			ratio = 1.0
		}
		!atmosphereCurve {}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 210
			key = 1 80
		}
	}	
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleFuelTanks
		volume = 20
		type = Fuselage
		basemass = -1

		TANK
		{
			name = Hydrazine
			amount = 20.00
			maxAmount = 20.00
		}

		TANK
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			amount = 5000
			maxAmount = 5000
		}
	}
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]
{
	%MODULE[ModuleSPU]{}
	%MODULE[ModuleRTAntennaPassive]
  {
		%TechRequired = unmannedTech
		%OmniRange = 300000
		%TRANSMITTER
    {
			%PacketInterval = 0.3
			%PacketSize = 2
			%PacketResourceCost = 15.0
		}
	}
}

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ravenchant

[CobaltWolf]

9 hours ago, Ravenchant said:

Edit: @CobaltWolf RO stuff is done, or at the very least close enough for the parts to be usable. Prices and tech tree integration for RP-0 will need to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me =P

Awesome!

[Sir_Fanch]

@Ravenchant Looks great man! Thanks very much to both you guys. For the capsule 600kg seems reasonable, given I can make a Corona style one from the RO parts for about 200kg and this one has a cargo hold. Though it does appear to be missing avionics, which I think is a pretty easy thing to add, for RP-0 probably just needs to be able to control its weight plus maybe 200 - 300kg for added parts (experiments, de-orbit engines, batteries etc). As for pricing and tech tree placement there is an RP-0 item called the "Early Controllable Core" which I believe is supposed to function as a return capsule core (Corona style), so copying the placement for that or placing it a little further along would probably be fine. Your pricing is pretty much perfect (in line with other RP-0 return capsules) so that's a plus. I've been searching high and low for the RO/RP-0 RCS configs to try and get upgrade-able thrusters on this with different propellants (cold gas, catalysed monoprop, bi-prop)  but I can't find it anywhere and without knowing how it's done I wouldn't have a clue how to replicate it for this  but I feel it would make it a bit more of a flexible career choice as the thrusters will get better over time. The only other thing I can think of is it might be a bit big for RP-0, on the right is the included RO/RP-0 corona style probe core with a heat shield attached, left of that is RN's stardust return capsule (and chute), and on the far left is RN's Salyut 5 Almaz return capsule (and chute), as you can see it's kinda large comparably.

It's not a huge deal, but I feel like it being a little smaller would be ok, especially given most of the RP-0 experiments are quite small.

That's just my two cents though, do with it what you will . I'll keep rooting around for the RCS configs and if I get them working I'll try and post them .

Edited July 19, 2016 by Sir_Fanch
Typo's :)

[Deimos Rast]

@CobaltWolf

From the Cargo Bay config (pulled from Spacedock 1 minute ago).

• Should it be Size0 (same as Probe)? If so, then the cargobay lookup radius is wrong (too big). Spacedock says these are two 0.625m parts.
• Double listing of Editor info; probably should be Landing (same as Probe)?

 

	TechRequired = survivability
	entryCost = 1000
	cost = 500
	TechRequired = landing
	entryCost = 1000
	cost = 500

	bulkheadProfiles = size1

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[AlbertKermin]

13 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

@CobaltWolf

From the Cargo Bay config (pulled from Spacedock 1 minute ago).

• Should it be Size0 (same as Probe)? If so, then the cargobay lookup radius is wrong (too big). Spacedock says these are two 0.625m parts.
• Double listing of Editor info; probably should be Landing (same as Probe)?

 

	TechRequired = survivability
	entryCost = 1000
	cost = 500
	TechRequired = landing
	entryCost = 1000
	cost = 500

	bulkheadProfiles = size1

 

 

[rasta013]

18 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Should it be Size0 (same as Probe)?

All the compliments this schweet little thing has gotten swelled it's ego to the next size.  

[CobaltWolf]

@Sir_Fanchcan't it be rescaled in the RO patch config? It should be somewhere around Corona size, that's about what I scaled it to in relation to my Agena.

[Sir_Fanch]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

@Sir_Fanchcan't it be rescaled in the RO patch config?

 

The RO config enlarges it, I'm fairly sure this is what @Ravenchant meant when he said he modelled it after the chang 5 one. Personally I think it'd be better at the corona size/weight but that's partly because my capsules look no where near as well put together as this one . I figure given it's your/you guys' mod I'd leave the balancing decisions to you. I could be wrong but I think some other values would need to be re-balanced for the change in size/weight (maybe thermals, RCS power, fuel storage etc) and unfortunately I'm just not savvy enough to fumble my way through those changes .

[Ravenchant]

7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Sir_Fanchcan't it be rescaled in the RO patch config? It should be somewhere around Corona size, that's about what I scaled it to in relation to my Agena.

 

4 hours ago, Sir_Fanch said:

Personally I think it'd be better at the corona size/weight but that's partly because my capsules look no where near as well put together as this one . I figure given it's your/you guys' mod I'd leave the balancing decisions to you. I could be wrong but I think some other values would need to be re-balanced for the change in size/weight (maybe thermals, RCS power, fuel storage etc) and unfortunately I'm just not savvy enough to fumble my way through those changes .

Oooh it was supposed to be a Corona capsule! And yeah, now that I looked at the photos again it's even a bit too wide for the Chinese one...should be around 1.2m diameter. You know what we can do? We can make a duplicate part with MM and write separate configs so both capsules will be represented. Given that I don't think the historical Corona could've survived a trip from the Moon or an interplanetary trajectory, it opens up more options as well. I'll get right on it!

[Sir_Fanch]

4 hours ago, Ravenchant said:

We can make a duplicate part with MM and write separate configs so both capsules will be represented.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can certainly see the value in the larger one, have more like a return craft instead of just a return pod, if that makes any sense . I wrote a config for the RO-RCS on the capsule, it should apply it only if RO-RCS is installed (pretty unlikely because I'm terrible at coding and this is literally my first patch), but it works AFAIK and I think the values should work somewhat well for both the large and small versions (untested), if you wouldn't mind having a look @Ravenchant, I'm fairly certain there's probably a lot of errors, I grabbed parts of it from the RO-RCS global config and tried changing it for just the parachute part.

Spoiler

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:NEEDS[RP-0]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleAvionics
        massLimit = 0.5
    }
}
@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:FOR[RO-RCS]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineConfigs
        type = ModuleRCS
        thrustRating = thrusterPower
        techLevel = 0
        minTechLevel = 0
        origTechLevel = 2
        engineType = L
        configuration = Hydrazine
        modded = false
        CONFIG
        {
            name = HTP
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = HTP
            }
            IspSL = 0.177
            IspV = 0.465
            cost = -1
            entryCost = 7500
            techRequired = stability
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Hydrazine
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = Hydrazine
            }
            IspSL = 0.274
            IspV = 0.72
            cost = 0
            entryCost = 10000
            techRequired = stability
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = NitrousOxide
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = NitrousOxide
            }
            IspSL = 0.2
            IspV = 0.525
            cost = -5
            entryCost = 5000
            techRequired = basicRocketry
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Helium
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = Helium
            }
            IspSL = 0.203
            IspV = 0.453
            cost = 0
            entryCost = 5000
            techRequired = engineering101
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Nitrogen
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = Nitrogen
            }
            cost = -10
            IspSL = 0.1001462
            IspV = 0.195
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = MMH+NTO
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = MMH
                ratio = 0.5
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = NTO
                ratio = 0.50
            }
            IspSL = 0.362
            IspV = 0.952
            cost = 30
            techRequired = flightControl
            entryCost = 30000
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = UDMH+NTO
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = UDMH
                ratio = 0.413
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = NTO
                ratio = 0.587
            }
            IspSL = 0.361
            IspV = 0.943
            cost = 25
            entryCost = 25000
            techRequired = flightControl
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Aerozine50+NTO
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = Aerozine50
                ratio = 0.502
                DrawGauge = True
            }
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = NTO
                ratio = 0.498
            }
            IspSL = 0.366
            IspV = 0.955
            cost = 30
            entryCost = 30000
            techRequired = flightControl
        }
        CONFIG
        {
            name = Cavea-B
            PROPELLANT
            {
                ratio = 1.0
                name = CaveaB
            }
            IspSL = 0.274
            IspV = 0.939
            cost = 30
            entryCost = 40000
            techRequired = heavyRocketry
        }
    }
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:HAS[useRcsMass[True]]:FOR[RO-RCS]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
        %origMass = #$../mass$
    }
    !useRcsMass = DELETE
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:FOR[RO-RCS]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
        @CONFIG[HTP]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.06375
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[Hydrazine]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.06875
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[NitrousOxide]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.059
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[Helium]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.018
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[Nitrogen]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.0285
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[MMH*NTO]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.11125
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[UDMH*NTO]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.1105
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[Aerozine50+NTO]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.11375
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
        @CONFIG[Cavea-B]
        {
            %thrusterPower = 0.10625
            @cost *= 0.25
        }
    }
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:HAS[useRcsCostMult[*]]:AFTER[RO-RCS]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
        @CONFIG,*
        {
            @cost *= #$../useRcsCostMult$
        }
    }
}

@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]:HAS[#type[ModuleRCS*]],!MODULE[ModuleRCS*]]:AFTER[RO-RCS]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
        @type = ModuleEngines
        @CONFIG,*
        {
            %maxThrust = #$thrusterPower$
            %minThrust = #$thrusterPower$
            !thrusterPower = DEL
        }
    }
}
@PART[SampleReturnCapsule_Parachute]:HAS[useRcsCostMult[*]]:AFTER[RO-RCS]
{
    !useRcsCostMult = DEL
}
 

I've started tweaking your config to balance out a smaller one (corona sized) as well, but you'd probably do a far better job (with a lot less effort ) than I could, let me know if you want to see it though for reference or something, happy to be any help I can be. 

 

EDIT: Had a thought, does anything need to be done to allow ship manifest to transfer science into the command part? Or does ship manifest just automatically do that for all parts with the command module?

Edited July 20, 2016 by Sir_Fanch

[Boots]

I just unlocked this in my career save, and wanted to use it for an automated probe, not just Kerballed mission sample return.

Two questions:

1) Other than the stock barometer and thermometer, what fits in the cargo bay? Most of DMagic's stuff is too big and/or trnsmits for full value, and I don't hve a lot of other science mods.

2) Is there some way to automatically transfer data from experiments to the capsule wihout a kerbal being present that I'm missing?

[Deimos Rast]

2 hours ago, Boots said:

I just unlocked this in my career save, and wanted to use it for an automated probe, not just Kerballed mission sample return.

Two questions:

1) Other than the stock barometer and thermometer, what fits in the cargo bay? Most of DMagic's stuff is too big and/or trnsmits for full value, and I don't hve a lot of other science mods.

2) Is there some way to automatically transfer data from experiments to the capsule wihout a kerbal being present that I'm missing?

gravioli ravioli, accelerometer. Maybe a goo canister if you push hard enough Probably not an atmo sensor.

You'll need mods for part 2. I recommend Ship Manifest. There are other ways of doing it, but they;re a bit cheaty (still involve mods).