Panel and Wing Board join points?

[Gordon Fecyk]

When I built my little "Kerbin is Awesome, eh?" set, I found that panels joined to other panels will join only on one side or edge. I could make a row of panels, but when I tried to join two rows to make a wall only one pair of panels would join, making it wobble something fierce at the other end of the rows. I ended up using strut connectors crisscrossed under or behind the panels to turn multiple rows of panels into a cohesive wall.

I'm worried about building larger wings when I start constructing larger aircraft. Yes I could use B9 Procedural Wings, but I'd like to keep things stock. It's bad enough I'm using Ferram Aerospace Research for realistic flight; I'd like to otherwise stick with visual mods only.

Is there some means to have panels and wing-shaped boards join to more than one other panel or wing-shaped board? Crisscrossed struts would look goofy on a wing and might cause odd aerodynamic effects, and add to the part count.

On the panels I even tried using girders as studs. If there was a part that could act as a fastener, like framing nails or screws, I could build walls like in real life.

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[Snark]

30 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Is there some means to have panels and wing-shaped boards join to more than one other panel or wing-shaped board?

Nope.

Not now, not ever, nor is it possible to add that with a mod.  You've bumped up against a fundamental limitation of the game.  Not just for panels, but for any part at all.

KSP models vessels as a "tree" structure:  there's exactly one "root" part (the first one you place in the editor), and pieces that you attach to it are its "children", and pieces you attach to them are their children, and so forth.  And a fundamental assumption built into the entire system is that a part can have only one "parent" connection.  This makes it fundamentally impossible to have a closed "loop" of parts.  It means you can't have multiple edge connectors on parts.  It means you can't join parts together in a circular ring, such as a space station torus.  The assumption is baked into the game at such a fundamental level that you'd have to completely eviscerate the game to try to change that-- basically, it's in the ain't-gonna-happen category.  And because it's such a fundamental part of the game, mods can't really do anything about it, either.

There does exist a special category of "compound" part that can bridge the gap by connecting at two endpoints; in the stock game, these are the struts and the fuel ducts.  Those are basically your only option in stock.

This means that to make really big wings, you need to use really big parts; there's not really any other option.  You've already mentioned using Procedural Wings-- that's probably your best bet.

[Gordon Fecyk]

39 minutes ago, Snark said:

Not now, not ever, nor is it possible to add that with a mod.  You've bumped up against a fundamental limitation of the game.

Hm, ok. Maybe for the big walls I can use strut connectors as a kind-of fastener, and girders as studs and joists. Just have to remember to build outward from the root part. The wings are going to be fun though.

Is this in a FAQ somewhere already?

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[Geschosskopf]

5 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Hm, ok. Maybe for the big walls I can use strut connectors as a kind-of fastener, and girders as studs and joists. Just have to remember to build outward from the root part. The wings are going to be fun though.

Is this in a FAQ somewhere already?

Well, you have several other options if you don't mind using mods...

1.  Mod Parts
Mods like B9 Aerospace and Mk3 Extended have bigger wing parts, so you don't need to stick so many small wing parts together.

2.  Tweakscale
This lets you increase the size of existing parts, whether they be stock or mod.  Ends up being like using the bigger wing parts in the above mods.

3.  Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
HIGH, recommended, should-be-stock, why-the-Hell-isn't-it-stock-already?, this mod eliminates pretty much all wobble unless you do something really silly.  Thus, even if you use small stock parts, you don't have the silly, ridiculous, totally unrealistic wobbles.

4.  Procedural Wings
This is another part mod.  Basically, the part is just the wing root.  But you can stretch it however long you want, then pull the wingtip out however far you want.  It does have its limits on overall size, but basically it eliminates most joints between wing panels.

5.  Ubizor Welding
This mod lets you combine a bunch of individual parts into 1 big part.  Again, it eliminates most of the joints and therefore most of the wobble.

[Gordon Fecyk]

10 hours ago, Snark said:

There does exist a special category of "compound" part that can bridge the gap by connecting at two endpoints; in the stock game, these are the struts and the fuel ducts.

This is probably wish-list territory, but an additional compound part that behaves like a nail, screw or rivet could be useful some day. Like I wrote already, I'll try short struts as fasteners and see how that goes. That almost makes carpentry sense anyway, as large structures will use corner braces for legs, mating studs to top and bottom plates, and so on, and large decks and floors will use diagonal braces between joists for support.

I take it from the tone that you get this question a lot... I feel your pain. This is why I asked if there was already a FAQ entry somewhere.

Thanks both of you for either clearing things up or offering good advice.

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