Moar Procedural parts.

[Stone Blue]

I would like to see someone do Procedural Structural parts, Procedural Adapters, and MAYBE, Procedural Decouplers & Seperators, Procedural Intakes (both for air AND water)...

All similar to what is in the Alchemy Technologies mod... Go to this thread, and scroll half-way down the OP, and look at the Modular Girder System AWT

and all the ones below, to see what I mean... I used to use quite a few of the AT "parts packs", but once everything got combined, the amount of parts in the pack rivalled the whole stock, Squad folder, and I quit using them... Great parts, but became a perfect example of succumbing to "parts creep"...

With Procedural mods of the "categories" I listed above, you could end up with even more possibilities and choices than the AT mod, but without the ungodly part count or editor "clutter"...

And YES, I KNOW there is TweakScale.... But I would like to see more ability to actually tweak parts' shapes, than just a simple "rescale"... Not to mention, I think texture quality would be better with procedurals, than with those done with TweakScale...

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Stone Blue

[Wjolcz]

Dear Devs,

I used to be an eager LEGO parts supporter in the past. However, seeing what happened to the past revamp projects I now see that they are never finished because of (this is an assumption btw) insufficient artists, insufficient time or the amount of work that needs to be put into an overhaul project.

That is why I would like to suggest procedural parts as a solution to this never-ending problem. Just make some textures that look good when scaled, add a texture switch and let us model our rockets.

A bit of extra info for everyone trying to argument their way through with "this is how this game is meant to look" argument. No, it doesn't. If you've been on the forums long enough you will know the way all the parts look is due to the past overhaul projects done by many artists, some of whose art style evolved as they worked on the game. I'll post the relevant link soon.

EDIT: This post looks odd because it was an OP that got merged. Scroll down to find the link to the post by NovaSilisko (thanks @cxg2827) vvvvv

Edited April 18, 2017 by Veeltch

[ZooNamedGames]

I've always generally been opposed to all the remodeling done as I like the original style of the KSP I paid for but hey- being a 3 year owner of KSP doesn't mean much does it.

[The_Rocketeer]

I'm half-in-half-out on the procedural parts argument, mostly because wings made of tiles look dumb and certain tank combinations are much less satisfactory then one slightly-stretched tank would be. But, to be honest I preferred it when the game just looked amateurish, because it made me feel better about the ugly-tree rockets I built from those parts. In my view KSP visually peaked around 0.19. Since then there's just a lot of whining about how things look weird together.

Of course if demand really existed for such an aesthetic realignment it would probably have already happened in a dedicated aesthetic overhaul mod. But that can't be the case, because nobody ever suggests anything that's already been done by mods.... do they?

[W. Kerman]

8 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I'm half-in-half-out on the procedural parts argument, mostly because wings made of tiles look dumb and certain tank combinations are much less satisfactory then one slightly-stretched tank would be. But, to be honest I preferred it when the game just looked amateurish, because it made me feel better about the ugly-tree rockets I built from those parts. In my view KSP visually peaked around 0.19. Since then there's just a lot of whining about how things look weird together.

Of course if demand really existed for such an aesthetic realignment it would probably have already happened in a dedicated aesthetic overhaul mod. But that can't be the case, because nobody ever suggests anything that's already been done by mods.... do they?

Yeah, some do. However, the people requesting that KSP become a FPS game end up disappointed.

[passinglurker]

29 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Of course if demand really existed for such an aesthetic realignment it would probably have already happened in a dedicated aesthetic overhaul mod. But that can't be the case, because nobody ever suggests anything that's already been done by mods.... do they?

there's been attempts and some arguable successes at makeing complete sets of unified space plane an launcher systems (B9, OPT, Ven's Stock Revamp, KW rocketry, Bluedog Design Bureau, etc...) but in terms of taking parts and giving a one for one facelift you have to realize that...

A) modders make what they like and the fact that they mod means some don't have a great love for stock in more ways than just its art.

B) it's a lot of work over 300 parts to fix up not counting spaceplanes.

C) until recently its been expected that squad would get around to it so why duplicate the effort.

Personally I believe that modders shouldn't have to clean up after the developer. A game that can proudly wear its moddability as a selling point is one where the developer made a solid polished foundation that the modders can freely build on not a messy mound they feel obligated to clear off first before getting into what they wanted to do from the start.

 

[The_Rocketeer]

@passinglurker yeeeah, but that hasn't ever stopped armies of creative students and schoolkids from completely overhauling much less popular games than KSP in the past. Maybe the kids are just too lazy these days.

[passinglurker]

Just now, The_Rocketeer said:

@passinglurker yeeeah, but that hasn't ever stopped armies of creative students and schoolkids from completely overhauling much less popular games than KSP in the past. Maybe the kids are just too lazy these days.

Again point C the overhauls I know (dooms, quakes, freespace2, etc) all came well after the developer washed its hands of the whole affair and moved on to bigger and better things

[The_Rocketeer]

vOv I don't think that argument outstands the others. YMMV

[passinglurker]

3 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

vOv I don't think that argument outstands the others. YMMV

I already pointed out there are plenty of very large and expansive mods kids ain't lazy they just don't want to pick up after someone else. Arguments A and B are solid

Edited April 17, 2017 by passinglurker

[The_Rocketeer]

Ok then. I disagree.

[Frozen_Heart]

I have to say i'm coming to the same conclusion. I love the lego parts but if they are too much of a pain to bring them all up to a consistent standard then i think procedural would be the way to go.

 

Fuel tanks, wings, engines, SRBs and more could work with only a few high quality textures to choose from and would be a lot easier for the devs.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

The issue with procedural parts is everyone has a different gameplay philosophy. I'm in the group that considers KSP a puzzle/problem solving game, so I like the challenge of engineering within a smaller limit of parts. I think procedural parts would make the game too easy, the only challenge then would be paying for them and currently KSP's balance in terms of funds leans towards being overly generous. I don't think procedural parts are a good answer in terms of game balance, but as an addon I can see the appeal to those that want more customization.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Waxing_Kibbous

[Guest]

Procedural parts, most especially fuel tanks and wings, have many advantages.

• They reduce part count overall, making performance better.
• They unify the parts for a cleaner rocket, reducing the number of "breaks" in the line of a craft.
• Textures are similarly unified making for a prettier craft overall.
• A single fuel tank or wing choice in the VAB/SPH makes the lists less bewildering. Shape to order.
• With proper limiting in size they can provide the same tech progression we currently have while allowing for a greater expression in craft higher in the tree.

I see no reason why procedural tanks or wings would harm anyone's playstyle as they can be limited by progression as many modders have shown. The "engineering challenges" of the early tech tree are preserved and part counts are still meaningful for assembly building progression (LOL). Everything ends up looking better. At higher tech levels the player can spend more parts on making things pretty rather than building up delta-V. It's a win-win.

[Gaarst]

Parts designed for a specific purpose in a spaceflight game? Absolute nonsense!

Everyone knows rockets should be stacks of fuel tanks taped together!

Spoiler

In case you didn't get it, I'm being sarcastic. I hate the "LEGO" (actual LEGOs have pretty specific parts BTW) philosophy of the game as much as I hate the current (lack of) style. I hate it slightly less than the "look roket scienc iz so cool with BOOMZ EVRYWER!!!1!!" thing though.

 

[ZooNamedGames]

3 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I'm half-in-half-out on the procedural parts argument, mostly because wings made of tiles look dumb and certain tank combinations are much less satisfactory then one slightly-stretched tank would be. But, to be honest I preferred it when the game just looked amateurish, because it made me feel better about the ugly-tree rockets I built from those parts. In my view KSP visually peaked around 0.19. Since then there's just a lot of whining about how things look weird together.

Of course if demand really existed for such an aesthetic realignment it would probably have already happened in a dedicated aesthetic overhaul mod. But that can't be the case, because nobody ever suggests anything that's already been done by mods.... do they?

My thoughts exactly. The look back in .19 was KSP's own style. Ofc now it doesn't match since all the parts have been updated and had new more 'sleek' and 'realistic' from others so now they look stupid.

Squad needs to pick a direction, sleek and realistic, or silly and weird. If they do, my money is on the latter since they have been moving away from they're original style more and more.

And yes the .19 parts were partially just made to fill a space but the fact is that those parts being in the game from first public releases of the alpha to release made the parts more than just placeholders, they were kerbal parts. When I think of KSP, I don't think of Porkjet's work or any of the new parts. I see mismatched mk3 parts with no purpose, black and white striped parts, a X-Wing style mk1 cockpit, orange tanks being the behemoths, mail sails overheating at full throttle... ok maybe some of those are a bit outdated but the point remains; some parts have earned their place on KSP.

But at this point I'm rambling.

[cxg2827]

3 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Maybe the kids are just too lazy these days.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

58 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

but the fact is that those parts being in the game from first public releases of the alpha to release made the parts more than just placeholders, they were kerbal parts.

Not according to the the Former Dev:

 

 

[ZooNamedGames]

Just now, cxg2827 said:

Pot, meet kettle.

 

Not according to the the Former Dev:

 

 

Doesn't mean they haven't become part of the game by existing. Developer opinions aside.

[passinglurker]

32 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Doesn't mean they haven't become part of the game by existing. Developer opinions aside.

Actually it does mean they haven't become part of the game. Almost everyone hates them even their creator.

 Back in the day they were just replaced with mods like kw or nova punch these days nothing has changed the parts are still hated we just have even more alternatives.

You said it yourself squad needs to pick a direction, and it's pretty logical after the time and effort put into the space plane overhaul that the direction should be towards well made parts otherwise all that good work would just go to waste.

[ZooNamedGames]

2 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

Actually it does mean they haven't become part of the game. Almost everyone hates them even their creator.

 Back in the day they were just replaced with mods like kw or nova punch these days nothing has changed the parts are still hated we just have even more alternatives.

You said it yourself squad needs to pick a direction, and it's pretty logical after the time and effort put into the space plane overhaul that the direction should be towards well made parts otherwise all that good work would just go to waste.

Actually it does. Ask anyone who played KSP 2014-2015 what was the best fuel tank/engine in KSP; orange tank or the mainsail. Early game parts. I mean the parts have been in the game for 5 years going on now. What more does it take? Do they need to be 3D printed and launched into space? Since I've got a 3D model and will launch it into space (*ahem* @Tristonwilson12). Do I need to contact ULA and tell them to use those tanks on their next launch for an Atlas/Delta? What does it take to become part of the game? Since the old mk1-2 cockpit is still  present in 2 different locations in the game (as easter eggs but still) despite not being nearly as old. It's called homage. You make to those who earned it, regardless of how or why.

To those who picked up KSP for only a few months back in 2015; it won't be the same game they played before. It's shifting from Kerbal Space Program to Buzz Aldrin Space Program Manager... only without Buzz. I prefer the silly stupid style since that's more unique and a greater statement to how much KSP stands out from other games which try so desperately to appeal to style. It was a comedic science game and one of the few of it's kind and most definitely of it's caliber. I feel that the comedic/educational aspect will stand truer in time than any retexture to something more sleek and realistic will.

No I don't like it and yes I'm in the minority but at least I'm voicing my opinion. I like the old parts even if others don't. So feel free to disagree as this comes down to taste.

[ZooNamedGames]

KSP is the game where Kerbals are measured by their courage and stupidity, not their feats or strengths. KSP is a game where the developers added a function to murder your Kerbals and to fish (only for one update), a game where Kerbals unquestionably and without hesitation or resistance board whatever death traps players have for them which may kill them in excruciating ways, game where the characters only express themselves in grunts, sighs and moans along with their famous faces they make, game where you have a 'trash can o boom' and a rocket engine which can also be used as a barbeque at low thrust, a game where you monitor goo for science...

Yes its a matter of style and preference but as we keep moving towards realism and making the game sleeker and sleeker- I just see Jeb standing by his little shack staring in confusion as all this new stuff is added.

Yes new is needed; but that doesn't mean that the old stuff should be nuked out of existence. That and, keep mind the game your updating. Can't just change the parts and expect KSP's heart to change when the rest of KSP still points to being a silly space game.

Take my commentary as you will.

Edited April 17, 2017 by ZooNamedGames

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Actually it does. Ask anyone who played KSP 2014-2015 what was the best fuel tank/engine in KSP; orange tank or the mainsail.

Doesn't mean we liked the look of them, it just meant they were the best in the game at the time.

- Someone who played KSP 2014~2015.

[ZooNamedGames]

Just now, regex said:

Doesn't mean we liked the look of them, it just meant they were the best in the game at the time.

- Someone who played KSP 2014~2015.

Well I did... besides I've got the whole rest of an essay written.

[Guest]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

Well I did... besides I've got the whole rest of an essay written.

You said "ask anyone". I have a differing opinion. Represent your own, don't misrepresent mine. Those old parts were placeholders IMO and the devs that made them.

[ZooNamedGames]

Just now, regex said:

You said "ask anyone". I have a differing opinion. Represent your own, don't misrepresent mine. Those old parts were placeholders IMO and the devs that made them.

Fine let me append that; anyone who hasn't followed the KSP community indepth.