The Astro-Imaging Thread

[MaxPeck]

4 hours ago, _Augustus_ said:

I also got the OTA for $100, and the cheapest way to mount it was to get the fork.

Christmas gifts this year will probably be an ASI224MC and some Explore Scientific eyepieces. If I make enough money to buy the 224 myself, I'll consider replacing its spot on the list with a used equatorial mount (my parents are happy to buy gifts off eBay!)

Prior to getting into Astrophotography, I had mostly refractors with fork mounts, which was fine for visual work.  I took some photos of the moon with a $10 DSLR adapter I got on sale from Orion and I was hooked.  Like you, I don't light cigars with $100 bills, so I went with quick and cheap and got myself an Orion EQ-1 mount ($50) and a clock-timer "tracking" motor ($40). I wanted to spend my money on a good quality OTA, so I mounted a shiny new $250 114mm "astgrograph" newt on my bargain basement mount with my $1600 25 Megapixel DSLR camera (that was a college graduation present) thinking that I'd be churning out poster-quality images of M41 in no time.  

What I got was endless nights of streaky, noisy pictures and a ton of frustration.  I went to the gurus at Cloudy Nights for guidance and the advice I got was pretty uniform:  throw that EQ-1 in the trash and slap myself in the face.  To paraphrase the advice I got:  The most expensive telescope on the market and the highest resolution camera you can afford are paperweights if the mount isn't rock-solid.  Start with the mount and build up from there.

So I saved my pennies got the SmartEq - and they were right.  Suddenly the quality of my images went up and the frustration factor went way down.  I added an autoguider, and things got even better.  Then I got the CEM25 and imaging is actually enjoyable now.  I rarely have to discard any subs, and with the help of Sequence Generator Pro (a totally worthwhile investment if you're serious about AP), the most difficult part of my session at this point is aligning my platform.  The quality of my subs are a given at this point, and alignment is only a pain because my view to the North is obstructed, so I have to drift align, which actually isn't a bad thing because it's more accurate than using a polar scope and eyeballing it.  Sure, using a wedge seems like a cheap and easy solution, but I think you'll just be frustrated by it in the long run.  If you want to get it just to play with, keep your expectations low.

Just my two cents, but my advice would be to save your pennies and invest in a good mount first and get good at aligning it and imaging with it before you start dropping dollars on expensive camera equipment and accessories.  The mount is (no pun intended), the most pivotal part of your AP setup.  Cameras and OTAs are interchangeable and upgradable, but the one constant will be the mount.  Some nights, I don't even use an OTA.  I slap a lens on my DSLR and just mount that and do wide-field stuff for my own amusement.  Some nights I mount the 114, some nights I mount the 120.  Some nights I mount my old 70mm scope I got in high school just for nostalgia's sake.  The one constant, though, is the mount.

[Green Baron]

@MaxPeck, i have 2 mounts as well, a cheap Meade LX50 LXD75 that was part of a special offer together with the 80/480 Refractor i use as a guide and a Losmandy G11. I am not yet as far you guys are with photography (i blame the weather :-)) but i think the equipment is right now, the only proof i have is the orion nebula from february. The Meade is just good enough to carry a camera, though it says "10kg".

The problem is: our stuff sums up to 10.000 funds. That is too much for someone who does not earn much own money or has no generous parents, mine would surely not have bought me a 1600,- camera. When i was 18 i saved my pennies for a fried out car, a telescope was something to dream of, not to own (i don't know how old you guys are). I am sure @_Augustus_ knows about the problems and if he could he would. So he apparently stays with planetary and video, which is ok. Better than a dobson.

imho

edit: though i absolutely agree, the mount is by far the most important thing in an astrophoto setup.

'nother edit: the camera _Augustus_ mentioned seems to be a nice planetary and video camera and could be used as a guiding cam later.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Green Baron

[Epox75]

4 hours ago, _Augustus_ said:

I also got the OTA for $100, and the cheapest way to mount it was to get the fork.

Christmas gifts this year will probably be an ASI224MC and some Explore Scientific eyepieces. If I make enough money to buy the 224 myself, I'll consider replacing its spot on the list with a used equatorial mount (my parents are happy to buy gifts off eBay!)

 

When I got into astrophotography I was also thinking about getting a color camera. I still thank the day I decided otherwise  If I were you I will buy an ASI120MM or a camera like my DMK21AU04.as plus a set of filters. ZWO has released a set of multicoated LRGB filters at a reasonable price. You will spend more money (but not so much) and you will get not only more quality but also a know-how about filters and image composition that you won't get with a color camera.

And I totally agree with @MaxPeck a crappy telescope on a decent mount performs better than a decent telescope on a crappy mount, yet planetary imaging doesn't require a perfect tracking like deep sky so if a wedge helps to avoid the rotation of the planet and you'll be able to keep the target in the FOV for the required time of recording, you will be just fine. 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Epox75

[Epox75]

And anyway: here it is, arrived today. That chip is huge compared to my DMK. Unfortunately they sent me the wrong filter wheel and counterweight. Not a big deal since they will replace them, but my plans of setting up Sequence Generator Pro and create the first sets of Bias and Flats has been postponed.

[Green Baron]

Nice. I like shiny instruments :-)

And i wrote nonsense². The small mount i own is not a Maede LX 50, it is a LXD 75.

[_Augustus_]

8 hours ago, Green Baron said:

The cam you have in mind seems to be fine for ir. You've shown already a nice Jupiter Image with your dobson (?) so i am sure you'll be fine with the setup for planetary imaging. A pity that people have problems manufacturing such simple parts as a wedge ..

 

Apparently the guy sent the wrong bottom piece and forgot to throw in screws. Looks like he'll be sending me the correct parts shortly.

The Jupiter images are all with my 4" GoTo Mak. 

6 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

*snip*

I'm a huge poster on CN (username Augustus) - I know what I'm doing.

Film isn't that expensive and neither is a piggyback bracket. I have everything else needed. I am going to start with piggybacking my P30T on the 2080, and eventually get an f/6.3 reducer and drive corrector for prime focus deep-sky photography. And then for Christmas I'm going to get that nice ASI224MC and do some real planetary imaging (my images are a joke and impress no one but my non-astro friends).

5 hours ago, Green Baron said:

@MaxPeck, i have 2 mounts as well, a cheap Meade LXD75 that was part of a special offer together with the 80/480 Refractor i use as a guide and a Losmandy G11. I am not yet as far you guys are with photography (i blame the weather :-)) but i think the equipment is right now, the only proof i have is the orion nebula from february. The Meade is just good enough to carry a camera, though it says "10kg".

The problem is: our stuff sums up to 10.000 funds. That is too much for someone who does not earn much own money or has no generous parents, mine would surely not have bought me a 1600,- camera. When i was 18 i saved my pennies for a fried out car, a telescope was something to dream of, not to own (i don't know how old you guys are). I am sure @_Augustus_ knows about the problems and if he could he would. So he apparently stays with planetary and video, which is ok. Better than a dobson.

the camera _Augustus_ mentioned seems to be a nice planetary and video camera and could be used as a guiding cam later.

I'm 14. 

I have a small weekly allowance, but I get most of my money from relatives during the holidays and from selling stuff I no longer use. And then there's my company (which makes ZERO money right now) and my work-in-progress book (I just got an illustrator for it, yay).

Yeah, the 224 could very well be used for guiding. The guy I bought the wedge from actually knows how to modify the LX3 drive correctors to have an ST-4 port, so theoretically I could stick with using the 2080 LX3 forever!

Edited April 27, 2017 by _Augustus_

[Green Baron]

And i just mounted and adjusted everything to give Bode's galaxy a try, a steel blue sky when the sun went down, a few low clouds in the north blocked the view on Polaris, went in to wait for darkness, went out again after an hour and the sky was covered 3/4 by a high veil of cirrus. Weather lights out over sea, closing in. Showers were announced for the morning but apparently they are in a hurry ...

*sigh*

Edited April 27, 2017 by Green Baron

[Epox75]

1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

And i just mounted and adjusted everything to give Bode's galaxy a try, a steel blue sky when the sun went down, a few low clouds in the north blocked the view on Polaris, went in to wait for darkness, went out again after an hour and the sky was covered 3/4 by a high veil of cirrus. Weather lights out over sea, closing in. Showers were announced for the morning but apparently they are in a hurry ...

*sigh*

Do you know meteoblue? Best website for forecasts and there is a section dedicated to astronomical seeing

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/seeing/amsterdam_netherlands_2759794

[MaxPeck]

There's another one that I use called "clear outside"... it's a website and a mobile app. They give pretty accurate and detailed forecasts for astronomical viewing.

@_Augustus_  good luck!  I'll give you credit for being 14 and making the attempt at AP.  Keep us updated on your progress, I don't know anyone who does imaging with a working wedge, so I'll admit I'm curious to see how your setup works out. 

[YNM]

14 hours ago, Green Baron said:

If only it was that easy :-)

Alt/az cannot be used for photography without solving the problem of rotation of the field. All computers in the world, on mars, europa and titan cannot solve that edit: without the aid of a non-trivial mechanical contraption called a field-derotator. You need a fairly exact polar alignment to get the circles the stars will describe during 24h as small as possible.

Hmm... yes now I realize it I think... is that why some images from observatories (or probably even their detectors) are circular ?

Still, given my place's low latitudes (<7 deg from equator !), having a fork equatorial sounds like a mess I won't be entering into, ever.

Alternative : some kind of "spot" photography ? Maybe limit it to lots of short exposures ? (But overall file size would be astronomical indeed...)

Edited April 28, 2017 by YNM

[Green Baron]

8 hours ago, Epox75 said:

Do you know meteoblue? Best website for forecasts and there is a section dedicated to astronomical seeing

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/seeing/amsterdam_netherlands_2759794

I didn't know that. I have many kinds of weather sources including grib files and programs to display data, but this one's new to me. I just don't query them every day. So this is nice. Thanks :-)

I was used to the central european weather services before i moved to the Canaries. Spanish weather forecast, including marine services broadcasted every 6 hours is bad. I mean b.a.d. You can just look up and watch the sky, that tells you more.

 

7 hours ago, YNM said:

Hmm... yes now I realize it I think... is that why some images from observatories (or probably even their detectors) are circular ?

Still, given my place's low latitudes (<7 deg from equator !), having a fork equatorial sounds like a mess I won't be entering into, ever.

Alternative : some kind of "spot" photography ? Maybe limit it to lots of short exposures ? (But overall file size would be astronomical indeed...)

The equator is the worst place on earth to align a mobile telescope. Both poles are slightly below the horizon. Lots of short exposures are not the same as a few long exposures, as the information comes from the difference between read out noise and information carrying photons that hit the sensor during exposure. In a short exposure this index is smaller than in a longer one.

Atmosphere is thicker (tropopause higher, more "weather" in the way :-)) as well.

You'd probably be better off with a stationary pole and a fixed mount, aligned once and for all (i mean until the next correction).

On the other hand, exactly on the equator, coordinate systems of an alt/az and eq mount overlay ...

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Green Baron

[YNM]

6 hours ago, Green Baron said:

The equator is the worst place on earth to align a mobile telescope. Both poles are slightly below the horizon. Lots of short exposures are not the same as a few long exposures, as the information comes from the difference between read out noise and information carrying photons that hit the sensor during exposure. In a short exposure this index is smaller than in a longer one.

Atmosphere is thicker (tropopause higher, more "weather" in the way :-)) as well.

You'd probably be better off with a stationary pole and a fixed mount, aligned once and for all (i mean until the next correction).

On the other hand, exactly on the equator, coordinate systems of an alt/az and eq mount overlay...

Shut up you spoiled polar people ! 

Regarding alt-az vs eq on the equator: Yes only if you rotate them around ! Maybe you mean the poles ?

[_Augustus_]

So apparently SharpCap was set at only half-res.

Moon: http://www.astrobin.com/293616/?nc=user

Jupiter: http://www.astrobin.com/293659/?nc=user

Edited April 29, 2017 by _Augustus_

[munlander1]

@_Augustus_, is that the grs in the right?

Will you ever try deep sky photography?

[_Augustus_]

1 minute ago, munlander1 said:

@_Augustus_, is that the grs in the right?

No.

[munlander1]

Just now, _Augustus_ said:

No.

Do you know what it is?

[_Augustus_]

1 minute ago, munlander1 said:

Do you know what it is?

Dust on the CCD.

[_Augustus_]

11 hours ago, munlander1 said:

Will you ever try deep sky photography?

With film, piggybacked on my 2080, eventually....

[munlander1]

1 hour ago, _Augustus_ said:

With film, piggybacked on my 2080, eventually....

Why wouldn't you use your telescope? What making you more inclined to use film?

[_Augustus_]

Just now, munlander1 said:

Why wouldn't you use your telescope?

An f/10 SCT requires really long exposures, and I don't have a reducer right now.

[munlander1]

I find it interesting that you choose to go with film though.

[ProtoJeb21]

Tonight's going to be a nice, warm clear night for some Jupiter observing. I also have tons of images and videos of Jupiter from earlier this month in need of processing. @_Augustus_ I'm going to need some advice for using RegiStax later on.

[munlander1]

Clouds...  all night it looks like

Edited April 30, 2017 by munlander1

[Epox75]

Since i'm still waiting for the auto-guiding equipment, tonight I have tried my ASI1600MM-Cool on Jupiter. I like the camera on planetary: it has a decent resolution and a great field of view, very nice for shots at my native focal lenght. But you can see its limits when you put on a barlow. I had to discard the images taken with the barlow due to an extreme lack of fine details but anyway I will give the camera a second chance, Jupiter is low on the horizon and maybe the seeing was not soo good. Anyway here's the 1st picture ( I have a second picture to process to test Winjupos derotation but I will do it tomorrow because it's about 50gb of video in total ):

 

[SuperFastJellyfish]

28 minutes ago, Epox75 said:

Since i'm still waiting for the auto-guiding equipment, tonight I have tried my ASI1600MM-Cool on Jupiter. I like the camera on planetary: it has a decent resolution and a great field of view, very nice for shots at my native focal lenght. But you can see its limits when you put on a barlow. I had to discard the images taken with the barlow due to an extreme lack of fine details but anyway I will give the camera a second chance, Jupiter is low on the horizon and maybe the seeing was not soo good. Anyway here's the 1st picture ( I have a second picture to process to test Winjupos derotation but I will do it tomorrow because it's about 50gb of video in total ):

 

That is quite sexy!  Thanks for sharing.