[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[si2504]

1 hour ago, chris-kerbal said:

I agree with the inventory. The stock inventory is working well and probably only need some additions/options on top, that KIS could provide (Like collapsing the Inventory slots, transportable containers or being able to add every part to a container).

However the building mode is different and would actually love the KIS building mode back, as the stock one is easily deorbiting a station if you do eva work.

But a question: Is actually the inventory part the hard one? I was testing to just remove the KIS inventory modules and allow everything into the regular Inventory, which worked. Guess it is the transition from the stock inventory to the KIS building mode?

The issue is, they both aren't cross compatible. If you have an item in stock inventory, you cannot use KIS construction mode to remove things from it to build. Items that have a KISinventoryitem Module in their configuration file can be used in KIS inventory and also will work in the build mode.

[Krzeszny]

Everyone agrees KIS is better than stock EVA construction mode but nobody wants to prove it, so here's a list I made to prove it's true:

• KIS allows manipulating almost all parts, provided that the mass doesn't exceed 1 t for 1 nearby Kerbal (configurable.) Stock KSP only allows building with a very limited amount of parts due to inventory and volume restrictions.
• KIS allows manipulating multiple connected parts. Stock KSP doesn't.
• KIS works with the mod KSP_PartVolumes which adds volumes to all parts that previously didn't have them. Stock KSP doesn't allow putting those parts in any inventories.
• KIS build mode is safer than stock, eliminating the risk of deorbiting stuff while building in 0-g environments, as it seems at first glance.
• KIS build mode... isn't a build mode. You just drag and drop without changing modes. Simpler.
• KIS allows attaching parts anywhere, while stock KSP sometimes only allows detaching parts but won't allow attaching them, even in the same place (it's showing red instead of green and the part can't be attached anywhere, no workaround)
• KIS is more volume-dependent than just slot-dependent. Containers, especially Kerbal inventories just have more slots.

The only good thing stock KSP does that KIS doesn't is the visuals – the laser welder.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Krzeszny
formatting

[Kirbin Kerman]

I can't transfer crew into certain parts of the vessel--parts that don't have built in KIS inventories, it seems, such as the inflatable airlock. What's annoying about this is that I can fix it by having a kerbal go on EVA, then board the exact same pod they just left, THEN THEY CAN TRANSFER! This is obviously a bug or something. I have to do this for each Kerbal, too. It's ridiculous

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, Kirbin Kerman said:

I can't transfer crew into certain parts of the vessel--parts that don't have built in KIS inventories, it seems, such as the inflatable airlock. What's annoying about this is that I can fix it by having a kerbal go on EVA, then board the exact same pod they just left, THEN THEY CAN TRANSFER! This is obviously a bug or something. I have to do this for each Kerbal, too. It's ridiculous

Wait for KIS2. The problem with the parts not having KIS modules is an old one. It can be solved pretty easy with an MM patch (simply add KIS inventories up to the max number of the kerbals in the capsule), but at the mod level it would require a substantial refactoring. Choosing between "a substantial refactoring on an old mod" and "making a new mod", I chose the latter.

[OrdinaryKerman]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:50 AM, Krzeszny said:

KIS works with the mod KSP_PartVolumes which adds volumes to all parts that previously didn't have them. Stock KSP doesn't allow putting those parts in any inventories.

PartVolume adds volumes to STOCK inventory, KIS just lets any part in as long as it fits in the container. Which is another advantage of KIS, it doesn't need external patching to let you use the inventory.

So go delete PartVolume. Delete the partVolume.cfg that it generated in its time installed. It does the exact opposite of what you think it does.

And save this text file as <any name you want>.cfg:

// Deletes stock cargo partmodule in every part so you can ignore stock inventory and use KIS on everything
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCargoPart]]:LAST[begoneStockInventory]
{
  !MODULE[ModuleCargoPart] {}
}

 

[Krzeszny]

36 minutes ago, OrdinaryKerman said:

So go delete PartVolume. Delete the partVolume.cfg that it generated in its time installed. It does the exact opposite of what you think it does.

And save this text file as <any name you want>.cfg:

// Deletes stock cargo partmodule in every part so you can ignore stock inventory and use KIS on everything
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCargoPart]]:LAST[begoneStockInventory]
{
  !MODULE[ModuleCargoPart] {}
}

 

That would prevent me from using jetpacks etc, so there's no need for that. I just haven't noticed before that KIS calculated its own volumes, completely separate from stock volumes.

The volume calculations are still weirdly inflated in all cases, compared to mathematical volumes, but that's not a big deal as long as they're relatively balanced.

[darthgently]

1 hour ago, Krzeszny said:

That would prevent me from using jetpacks etc, so there's no need for that. I just haven't noticed before that KIS calculated its own volumes, completely separate from stock volumes.

The volume calculations are still weirdly inflated in all cases, compared to mathematical volumes, but that's not a big deal as long as they're relatively balanced.

Given the stock system came out relatively recently the separate calculations are completely understandable.  I'm more curious what degree of integration is planned for KIS being more integrated into the stock inventory/construction systems.  I don't think the stock system is as well thought out in most ways as KIS, but it does do some things in a cleaner way.  Making construction more like VAB/SPH construction is a good example of that.  The ability to rotate and offset parts in a similar way as the editors is nice.  But KIS is far more stable in my experience.  My druthers would be for all parts that can be stored in KIS inventory to be made compatible with stock "cargo" parts and just leverage stock inventory.  Remove the KIS eva tanks and go with the new stock tanks etc.

Edited June 13, 2021 by darthgently

[Kirbin Kerman]

11 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Wait for KIS2. The problem with the parts not having KIS modules is an old one. It can be solved pretty easy with an MM patch (simply add KIS inventories up to the max number of the kerbals in the capsule), but at the mod level it would require a substantial refactoring. Choosing between "a substantial refactoring on an old mod" and "making a new mod", I chose the latter.

Of course! I didn't know it would be so much work.

I'm new to module manager patches - do you think you could give me an example on how to do it?

[Capt. Hunt]

I just noticed that the KIS EVA fuel canister no longer works.  The "Refuel" button doesn't seem to do anything when clicked.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fw90h3474jej627/KSP copy 3.log?dl=0

I suppose it's more of an annoyance then anything, since stock inventories included an EVA fuel can part, but there are a couple of use cases I can think of where the KIS part was more handy.  This also effects related parts like the Universal Storage pack's EVA-X backpack.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Capt. Hunt

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, Capt. Hunt said:

I just noticed that the KIS EVA fuel canister no longer works.  The "Refuel" button doesn't seem to do anything when clicked.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fw90h3474jej627/KSP copy 3.log?dl=0

I suppose it's more of an annoyance then anything, since stock inventories included an EVA fuel can part, but there are a couple of use cases I can think of where the KIS part was more handy.  This also effects related parts like the Universal Storage pack's EVA-X backpack.

https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/issues/394

There will be a new KIS release after I'm done with KAS.

[RandomKerbal]

23 hours ago, IgorZ said:

There will be a new KIS release after I'm done with KAS.

I have seen you entioned about the "New KIS" for quite some time, is it a completely new mod?  Most importantly, is it compatible with the current KIS? (as well as the stock one) Nah. Nothing.

Edited June 16, 2021 by RandomKerbal

[Capt. Hunt]

13 hours ago, IgorZ said:

https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/issues/394

There will be a new KIS release after I'm done with KAS.

thanks

[IgorZ]

21 hours ago, RandomKerbal said:

I have seen you entioned about the "New KIS" for quite some time, is it a completely new mod?  Most importantly, is it compatible with the current KIS? (as well as the stock one) Nah. Nothing.

There should be a distinction between the things I'm trying to do. What we have today as "KIS" is now a legacy. I'll do my best to keep it operational in the following KSP versions, but do not expect it to collaborate with the stock system (as well as don't expect of any new features). There is also a long running project named "KIS2". There are not much details on it in this forum due to it's in the pre-alpha state for now. However, you may get some inside on my Patreon page. KIS2 will integrate with the stock system. The actual concept of HOW it will be made is not yet defined.

Edited June 16, 2021 by IgorZ

[morgoth]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:11 AM, IgorZ said:

There should be a distinction between the things I'm trying to do. What we have today as "KIS" is now a legacy. I'll do my best to keep it operational in the following KSP versions, but do not expect it to collaborate with the stock system (as well as don't expect of any new features). There is also a long running project named "KIS2". There are not much details on it in this forum due to it's in the pre-alpha state for now. However, you may get some inside on my Patreon page. KIS2 will integrate with the stock system. The actual concept of HOW it will be made is not yet defined.

So, I guess my question here (and pardon me if it has been answered before) is: Would I have to start a completely new savegame if I want to start using KIS2, or the stock system, to avoid breaking my existing crafts in orbit/planets?

Have some thought been put to be able to port some of it with a script or guide?
I'm all up for using a new KIS version that will integrate with stock, but I'd rather not break my current savegame after I have bases and crafts all over the "Kerbolar System".

Any thought/suggestions appreciated...

[RandomKerbal]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:05 AM, morgoth said:

So, I guess my question here (and pardon me if it has been answered before) is: Would I have to start a completely new savegame if I want to start using KIS2, or the stock system, to avoid breaking my existing crafts in orbit/planets?

I don't think so, but it's for sure that you will have to replace the KIS boxes on your stations all over again...

[darthgently]

On 6/11/2021 at 7:50 PM, Krzeszny said:

Everyone agrees KIS is better than stock EVA construction mode but nobody wants to prove it, so here's a list I made to prove it's true:

• KIS allows manipulating almost all parts, provided that the mass doesn't exceed 1 t for 1 nearby Kerbal (configurable.) Stock KSP only allows building with a very limited amount of parts due to inventory and volume restrictions.
• KIS allows manipulating multiple connected parts. Stock KSP doesn't.
• KIS works with the mod KSP_PartVolumes which adds volumes to all parts that previously didn't have them. Stock KSP doesn't allow putting those parts in any inventories.
• KIS build mode is safer than stock, eliminating the risk of deorbiting stuff while building in 0-g environments, as it seems at first glance.
• KIS build mode... isn't a build mode. You just drag and drop without changing modes. Simpler.
• KIS allows attaching parts anywhere, while stock KSP sometimes only allows detaching parts but won't allow attaching them, even in the same place (it's showing red instead of green and the part can't be attached anywhere, no workaround)
• KIS is more volume-dependent than just slot-dependent. Containers, especially Kerbal inventories just have more slots.

The only good thing stock KSP does that KIS doesn't is the visuals – the laser welder.

Agreed overall.  But unless there is a way to offset parts then stock has that over KIS.  I also like the fact that I can still see details on the part as I place it in stock.  Getting the orientation of a docking port can be hard in KIS because it is just all green with no details to show which way is up.  Also, stock is quicker.  Maybe it is just my install, but if I grab a part in KIS, even if I hit escape and end up not attaching it, there is a good 10 to 20 second delay.  But yeah, that is all stock has going for it.  KIS is so much better.  Maybe they will rub on each other and create some improvement of both

[darthgently]

Love this mod, but it seems that 90% of the time I want to attach a part to a craft in orbit it is on one of the mesh vertexes or edges so it wants to tilt this way and that as the cursor moves a single pixel.  I realize I can somewhat compensate using Shift-W/S/A/D/Q/E but as the view drifts inevitably the cursor drifts that one pixel over the mesh edge or vertex and tilts radically the other way.  Is there a technique I could use either to freeze/lock the camera view so the view doesn't drift while attaching or a keystroke that causes the part to attach at a auto-coplanar (flat?) angle to the interpolated/smoothed mesh surface rather than the literal individual planes making up the mesh?  I have some docking ports tilted at some very odd angles at this point.  An EVA kerbal doesn't have the "Lock" camera view that craft do apparently.  Thanks for any clues

Edited July 26, 2021 by darthgently

[IgorZ]

6 hours ago, darthgently said:

Love this mod, but it seems that 90% of the time I want to attach a part to a craft in orbit it is on one of the mesh vertexes or edges so it wants to tilt this way and that as the cursor moves a single pixel.  I realize I can somewhat compensate using Shift-W/S/A/D/Q/E but as the view drifts inevitably the cursor drifts that one pixel over the mesh edge or vertex and tilts radically the other way.  Is there a technique I could use either to freeze/lock the camera view so the view doesn't drift while attaching or a keystroke that causes the part to attach at a auto-coplanar (flat?) angle to the interpolated/smoothed mesh surface rather than the literal individual planes making up the mesh?  I have some docking ports tilted at some very odd angles at this point.  An EVA kerbal doesn't have the "Lock" camera view that craft do apparently.  Thanks for any clues

Well, KIS cannot help here since it works with planes. One way you can achieve what you want is using the stock EVA construction mode. There you can adjust part position and orientation when it's already attached.  I.e. you can use KIS to "drop" the part on the craft, and then use the stock UI to adjust its position.

As for the locking camera view, there are mods that allow focusing on an arbitrary part. E.g. such functionality is available in Easy Vessel Switch (https://github.com/ihsoft/EasyVesselSwitch). However, if the kerbal and part positions are not fixed, then locking the view won't help much.

[darthgently]

53 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Well, KIS cannot help here since it works with planes. One way you can achieve what you want is using the stock EVA construction mode. There you can adjust part position and orientation when it's already attached.  I.e. you can use KIS to "drop" the part on the craft, and then use the stock UI to adjust its position.

As for the locking camera view, there are mods that allow focusing on an arbitrary part. E.g. such functionality is available in Easy Vessel Switch (https://github.com/ihsoft/EasyVesselSwitch). However, if the kerbal and part positions are not fixed, then locking the view won't help much.

Ok.  Unfortunately I've found that stock construction can only manipulate a fairly small subset of parts.  Thanks for responding

[darthgently]

Is there any possibility for getting the functionality of the contents of containers in the VAB to be copied as well as the container when alt-left-clicking a container with parts in it?  The same when placing in symmetry would be fantabulous.  I just got bit hard.  I have everything staged in Minmus orbit only to find all my inventory is empty because right before launch I had to temporarily change the root of the craft to a lower stage part to put something in place, then because of another KSP bug, I *copied* the upper part of the rocket back into place instead of just clicking it (which when Nerv engines are involved causes my install to go all Null Ref, but the Alt-left-clicking avoids this for mysterious reasons).  Anyway, my Jool mission is all staged in Minmus orbit with empty inventories, lol.  I reverted to an earlier save and am going to fix and relaunch rather than re-supply, which means repeating some satellite placements around Pol, but no big deal there

FWIW, stock inventory suffers the same issue.  All containers must be individually populated and copying does not copy contents.  I'll be putting in a request for that also but no hopes there until KSP2 I assume, if at all

The ability to do this would be phenomenal!  Even if it were an entirely separate function from copying containers.  Like maybe a PAW/r-click-menu option in the VAB to clone contents to another container?  Even that would be a huge bonus.   Thanks for reading this far, and have a great day

Edited August 1, 2021 by darthgently

[IgorZ]

On 8/1/2021 at 2:23 PM, darthgently said:

Is there any possibility for getting the functionality of the contents of containers in the VAB to be copied as well as the container when alt-left-clicking a container with parts in it?  The same when placing in symmetry would be fantabulous.  I just got bit hard.  I have everything staged in Minmus orbit only to find all my inventory is empty because right before launch I had to temporarily change the root of the craft to a lower stage part to put something in place, then because of another KSP bug, I *copied* the upper part of the rocket back into place instead of just clicking it (which when Nerv engines are involved causes my install to go all Null Ref, but the Alt-left-clicking avoids this for mysterious reasons).  Anyway, my Jool mission is all staged in Minmus orbit with empty inventories, lol.  I reverted to an earlier save and am going to fix and relaunch rather than re-supply, which means repeating some satellite placements around Pol, but no big deal there

FWIW, stock inventory suffers the same issue.  All containers must be individually populated and copying does not copy contents.  I'll be putting in a request for that also but no hopes there until KSP2 I assume, if at all

The ability to do this would be phenomenal!  Even if it were an entirely separate function from copying containers.  Like maybe a PAW/r-click-menu option in the VAB to clone contents to another container?  Even that would be a huge bonus.   Thanks for reading this far, and have a great day

You've brought up a very interesting issue. I never thought about it before. I've created a feature request in KIS. No chances it will be implemented in the legacy KIS, but this is something to address in KIS v2.

Edited August 7, 2021 by IgorZ

[volkeu]

On 8/2/2021 at 2:23 AM, darthgently said:

functionality of the contents of containers in the VAB to be copied as well as the container

I've also been looking for a way to do that, and found that you could save as subassembly both stock and KIS containers, KSP then will save their contents, and you can essentially copy containers with saved content. Of course, it doesn't work with mirror mode still, but you can place container mounts in mirror mode (not necessarily KIS one, it could be any part with free node, but mounts, docking ports, or nose cones works best for me), and place containers one by one as subassemblies.

[darthgently]

22 hours ago, volkeu said:

I've also been looking for a way to do that, and found that you could save as subassembly both stock and KIS containers, KSP then will save their contents, and you can essentially copy containers with saved content. Of course, it doesn't work with mirror mode still, but you can place container mounts in mirror mode (not necessarily KIS one, it could be any part with free node, but mounts, docking ports, or nose cones works best for me), and place containers one by one as subassemblies.

Yes, I'm aware of this and do this.  But it doesn't cover many situations of copying containers and placing in symmetry.  And going through the motions of creating a subassembly for each flavor of container with different variety of contents is not really a solution.  Another issue is that other bugs in KSP (my install anyway) cause it to hang and freeze when I grab some objects in the editor, but doing a mod+click to copy it works fine for simple parts and avoid this "null ref" error.  But the copy of KIS containers doesn't get the contents so often deep into a long edit I hit a point where I have to manually reload a container.   Finally, it simply make sense that a copy of a KIS container would copy its inventory

[darthgently]

I put some joint sockets into Stock inventory slots.  But stock construction won't let me attach them.  I'm trying to move them to a KIS inventory slot so I can KIS attach them.  But I can't figure out how to "drop" them from the stock container so I can "grab" them via KIS.  In stock construction they won't attach and clicking in space or on a surface does nothing.  I realize this isn't a pure KIS question, but in a way it is, as if we are to be able to put KIS/KAS parts into stock inventory slots then we need to be able to do something with them.  

At this point I've reverted to a pre-launch save and will just not put them in the stock slots, but I'm curious if anyone knows how to use KIS items that can be placed into Stock inventory slots but later stock construction seems to be confused by

[Caerfinon]

27 minutes ago, darthgently said:

But I can't figure out how to "drop" them from the stock container

Have you tried moving them to the personal stock inventory of a kerbal from the stock container and then using the arrow for deployed science while on EVA to move from personal stock inventory to the ground? Then grab them using KIS.