Ornithopter Challenge

[Jonfliesgoats]

If you can build and fly a working ornithopter in KSP, you are the cooler than a penguin eating pizza.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Jonfliesgoats

[Jonfliesgoats]

 

[Tex_NL]

Question: What version are you using? I see a lot of outdated parts and you're talking about infinigliding.
 The infamous infiniglide bug hasn't been in the game for quite a long time. Pretty sure what you're doing won't work in KSP 1.2. Or at least your craft won't.

[DoctorDavinci]

1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

Question: What version are you using? I see a lot of outdated parts and you're talking about infinigliding.
 The infamous infiniglide bug hasn't been in the game for quite a long time. Pretty sure what you're doing won't work in KSP 1.2. Or at least your craft won't.

That video was from over 2 and a half years ago ... likely 0.90 although possibly an earlier version

[Tex_NL]

2 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

That video was from over 2 and a half years ago ... likely 0.90 although possibly an earlier version

That explains a lot. IIRC infiniglide was fixed with 1.0.

[panzer1b]

This actually WAS possible without abusing the infiniglide but im not sure if you can do a stock one anymore...  The issue is that landing gear cant be used to push your own craft (some of the earliest hinges used this concept) but because of the bugs and all, landing gear/wheels/ect doesnt interact with its own craft.  That said, wing flapping motion can make something fly (without infiniglide).  If you were to use 2 separated craft though i believe you could use landing legs as makeshift pushers (but the craft have to be both stuck together and physically separate craft in terms of game mechanics or well, they wont interact with each other right).

[Jonfliesgoats]

It's an old video.  I haven't been able to do it in Xbox yet.  Has anyone else had luck?

I am on console, to answer your questions.

I thought we could attach things to wheels again in 1.2?

[DoctorDavinci]

On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Jonfliesgoats said:

It's an old video.  I haven't been able to do it in Xbox yet.  Has anyone else had luck?

I am on console, to answer your questions.

I thought we could attach things to wheels again in 1.2?

If you're on console then you don't have KSP v1.2 ... IIRC the console version is 1.0 or 1.1.0

 

[Jonfliesgoats]

Yup.  Consoles here.  Not as good as PC, but this what I have now.

[Rath]

Could it be possible using hinges and SAS?  But I don't know how to get the flapping motion.  @Azimech?  I call on you once more.

On 10/15/2016 at 11:32 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

That video was from over 2 and a half years ago ... likely 0.90 although possibly an earlier version

Much earlier, it still has the old wings.  .23?

[Azimech]

8 hours ago, Rath said:

Could it be possible using hinges and SAS?  But I don't know how to get the flapping motion.  @Azimech?  I call on you once more.

Much earlier, it still has the old wings.  .23?

Pretty interesting challenge! If I can find the time, I'll invest some brain cycles.

[Rath]

http://imgur.com/a/8mprX

 

[Jonfliesgoats]

i used RCS ports  and wings attached to AGUs to get flapping.  I have not been able to maintain altitude through flapping yet.  Once I get any kind of warping of surfaces to generate forward thrust, my craft becomes too inefficient and slowly loses altitude.

I then figured my RCS thrusters were fighting me by vectoring a wee bit of thrust against me as the wings warped.

now, back at square one, I still can't get adequate flapping.

I hear in 1.2 landing gear can act upon its own craft again.  That would make things much easier when it comes to consoles.

[SchweinAero]

On 24.10.2016 at 4:14 AM, Rath said:

Could it be possible using hinges and SAS?  But I don't know how to get the flapping motion.

 

On 24.10.2016 at 1:04 PM, Azimech said:

Pretty interesting challenge! If I can find the time, I'll invest some brain cycles.

 

On 25.10.2016 at 4:01 PM, Jonfliesgoats said:

now, back at square one, I still can't get adequate flapping.

I suggest borrowing from a KSP tech that does demonstrably work: gyro-driven propeller planes. One could use a reaction wheel on hitbox bearings like model ornithopters use a rubber band. Mark one point on the circumference, and link it to each wing via beams that have joints at both ends. As the wheel rotates, it will flap the wings simultaneously. The main problem will likely be stabilizing the joints.

[Azimech]

19 minutes ago, SchweinAero said:

 

 

I suggest borrowing from a KSP tech that does demonstrably work: gyro-driven propeller planes. One could use a reaction wheel on hitbox bearings like model ornithopters use a rubber band. Mark one point on the circumference, and link it to each wing via beams that have joints at both ends. As the wheel rotates, it will flap the wings simultaneously. The main problem will likely be stabilizing the joints.

I think I'd rather use Juno's, being the turbine man I am. I'll tell you one thing: with the new aero but without fluid dynamics ... everything became much harder. Like mentioned before, Errordynamics had Inifiniglide, which made the original possible. A five ounce bird needs to beat it's wings 43 times a second in order to maintain an airspeed velocity of 11m/s. I think we would be grateful if we can reach 2 times a second in a 5 ton contraption ... but this is all speculation :-)

[Rath]

Joint stabilization is pretty easy right now.  Look in the turboprop thread--75rad/s max is good for most anything.  Azimech, i'm sure it'll eventually make it work, but knowing you, it will need to go 200m/s and look like a exactly soviet helicopter or something before you will release it.

[sdj64]

3 hours ago, Azimech said:

I think I'd rather use Juno's, being the turbine man I am. I'll tell you one thing: with the new aero but without fluid dynamics ... everything became much harder. Like mentioned before, Errordynamics had Inifiniglide, which made the original possible. A five ounce bird needs to beat it's wings 43 times a second in order to maintain an airspeed velocity of 11m/s. I think we would be grateful if we can reach 2 times a second in a 5 ton contraption ... but this is all speculation :-)

Larger birds beat their wings slower, so a 5 ton plane can probably manage with a quite slow frequency.  I was thinking of using some combination of spinning narrow-band scanners because they have infinite torque, but I can't figure out how to translate that into forward thrust.  I tried a sort of breast stroke movement but it didn't work very well, just stalled and crashed.

[Jonfliesgoats]

I am on a trip for work at the moment.  I will take another stab at an ornithopter when I get back home.

I have been going with large wingspans and slow beats along with as light of a wing loading as I can get.

a

Edited October 27, 2016 by Jonfliesgoats

[MarvinKitFox]

On 2016/10/24 at 3:14 AM, Rath said:

Could it be possible using hinges and SAS?  But I don't know how to get the flapping motion.  @Azimech?  I call on you once more.

Much earlier, it still has the old wings.  .23?

A small hint.

The video has text in 35-point font that screams

"in kerbal space program v0.23.5"

 

Possibly this hints to the version of the game used????

Edited October 28, 2016 by MarvinKitFox