Possible evidence of cellphones affecting human brain found

[Darnok]

If we can detect so weak, as Earth, magnetic field then any stronger source of magnetic waves can affect our brains...

http://phys.org/news/2016-06-evidence-human-ability-earth-magnetic.html

[Diche Bach]

I'm a little puzzled though about the connection between humans having some capacity to perceive magnetic fields and cellphones impacting our brains. Cell phones are not magnetic are they? Sheeze I hope not, I tend to set mine on top of an external HDD I have sitting on a desk . . .

[kerbiloid]

Humans also feel gravitation, but usually it doesn't hurt them.

[Green Baron]

Many organisms had and have the ability to detect a magnetic field, they use it to find prey or for orientation. Until now i assumed that humans lack such an organ and sens.

Cellphones emit radio waves in the 2-3Ghz range, which are microwaves (electromagnetic). The early cellphones where a danger since they didn't have a ability to reduce transmit power when close to an antenna. Many people complained about hot ears and headache after longer calls.

I personally would say: it's like smoking and alcohol, even if it would kill noone would stop :-)

Of course microwaves still affect tissue up to being carcinogenic, but the transmit powers are low and it is never far to the next antenna so powers are low. Today it is thought that the effects of cellphones on tissue can be neglected. But electromagnetic impact on tissue is probably a different thing that what this article is about.

 

 

btw. the refrenced article on a human magnetic sense says nothing about cellphones ...

oh ! Edit: ... except that one of the scientists used an ipone to detect magnetic dust on the "guinea pig". I ask myself, is that serious ?

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Green Baron

[Diche Bach]

2 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Many organisms had and have the ability to detect a magnetic field, they use it to find prey or for orientation. Until now i assumed that humans lack such an organ and sens.

Cellphones emit radio waves (which are electromagnetic) in the 2-3Ghz range, which are microwaves. The early cellphones where a danger since they didn't have a ability to reduce transmit power when close to an antenna. Many people complained about hot ears and headache after longer calls.

Of course microwaves still affect tissue up to being carcinogenic, but the transmit powers are low and it is never far to the next antenna so powers are low. Today it is thought that the effects of cellphones on tissue can be neglected.

I personally would say: it's like smoking and alcohol, even if it would kill noone would stop :-)

 

btw. the refrenced article says nothing about cellphones ...

 

Right. So a modern day mobile device (an Android from say 6 years ago . . . I know more like an "antique"): sitting next to an external hard drive -> that doesn't represent a breach of that most basic rule of hardware, "never put something magnetic adjacent to a hard drive" does it?

I'm not even sure that rule still applies to modern hard ware, but I seem to recall reading it recently . . .

[Kryten]

5 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

Right. So a modern day mobile device (an Android from say 6 years ago . . . I know more like an "antique"): sitting next to an external hard drive -> that doesn't represent a breach of that most basic rule of hardware, "never put something magnetic adjacent to a hard drive" does it?

I'm not even sure that rule still applies to modern hard ware, but I seem to recall reading it recently . . .

It does, but that has nothing to do with the phone's transmissions. It's because there are magnets in the microphone and speakers.

[Darnok]

28 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Of course microwaves still affect tissue up to being carcinogenic, but the transmit powers are low and it is never far to the next antenna so powers are low. Today it is thought that the effects of cellphones on tissue can be neglected. But electromagnetic impact on tissue is probably a different thing that what this article is about.

 

 

It is not about tissue, but about brain waves. Any studies about brain waves affected while using smartphones or near by radio waves emitters?
 

[lajoswinkler]

I'm puzzled. How did you turn "Possible evidence of human ability to detect Earth's magnetic field found" into "Possible evidence of cellphones affecting human brain found"?

Not only that article has nothing to do with your thread's title, but magnetic field of Earth is one thing, and nonionizing electromagnetic radiation is something else.

 

You do understand what those two are, don't you?

[Green Baron]

15 minutes ago, lajoswinkler said:

I'm puzzled. How did you turn "Possible evidence of human ability to detect Earth's magnetic field found" into "Possible evidence of cellphones affecting human brain found"?

Not only that article has nothing to do with your thread's title, but magnetic field of Earth is one thing, and nonionizing electromagnetic radiation is something else.

 

You do understand what those two are, don't you?

Yeah, i was aware. My reply tried to adress the misunderstanding :-)

The article states little evidence but a guess on magnetoreception. It's probably too early for a thoroughly researched paper, and some passages seem to be a little on the .... mystery side ?

Edit: well, guess is a little sloppy, it's one possible explanation about what was found in some animals about perception of magnetic fields.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Green Baron

[lajoswinkler]

8 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Yeah, i was aware. My reply tried to adress the misunderstanding :-)

The article states little evidence but a guess on magnetoreception. It's probably too early for a thoroughly researched paper, and some passages seem to be a little on the .... mystery side ?

 

I was referring to the OP.

[Darnok]

40 minutes ago, lajoswinkler said:

I'm puzzled. How did you turn "Possible evidence of human ability to detect Earth's magnetic field found" into "Possible evidence of cellphones affecting human brain found"?

Not only that article has nothing to do with your thread's title, but magnetic field of Earth is one thing, and nonionizing electromagnetic radiation is something else.

 

You do understand what those two are, don't you?

You are suggesting that Earth magnetic field is ionizing on ground level?

It is first time I heard that Earth magnetic field is different than electromagnetic field from electrical devices... I wonder how compass works if those are two different kind of fields

[lajoswinkler]

18 minutes ago, Darnok said:

You are suggesting that Earth magnetic field is ionizing on ground level?

It is first time I heard that Earth magnetic field is different than electromagnetic field from electrical devices... I wonder how compass works if those are two different kind of fields

No, I'm not. Again, your reasoning is incorrect.

 

Magnetic field B is a relativistic component of the electromagnetic wave.

When an electrical field E oscillates, it creates an electromagnetic wave because a magnetic component occurs. It happens with oscillating magnetic fields, too.

 

Magnetic field of Earth is stationary (we can completely ignore its shifting here). It's a field B.

 

Communication devices use electromagnetic waves and, cellphones in particular use ones having a frequency corresponding to microwave part of the EM spectrum. You'll learn about these things in highschool physics when the time comes.

Edited October 17, 2016 by lajoswinkler

[Darnok]

7 minutes ago, lajoswinkler said:

 

Communication devices use electromagnetic waves and, cellphones in particular use ones having a frequency corresponding to microwave part of the EM spectrum. You'll learn about these things in highschool physics when the time comes.

And during communication those devises create electromagnetic waves... it doesn't matter those waves are static or not IF our brain waves are affected by static field then electromagnetic fields with different frequencies also affects brain waves.

I have different question about magnets... how do you know that North pole of magnet is pulling south pole? How we can say which pole is which?

[KSK]

2 hours ago, Darnok said:

It is not about tissue, but about brain waves. Any studies about brain waves affected while using smartphones or near by radio waves emitters?
 

Yes. Quite a few. Aren't search engines wonderful?

Summary. Yes, certain sets of brainwaves appear to be affected by cellphones. However, as far as I can tell, no clinically adverse effects have been reported and brainwaves (or EEGs) are a pretty crude indicator of neural function, so it's very hard to tell what's actually happening to the brain when exposed to cellphone radiation.

[p1t1o]

3 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Of course microwaves still affect tissue up to being carcinogenic, but the transmit powers are low and it is never far to the next antenna so powers are low. Today it is thought that the effects of cellphones on tissue can be neglected. But electromagnetic impact on tissue is probably a different thing that what this article is about.

I've never heard of microwaves causing cancer? A quick google only brings up results about how they *don't* cause cancer.

Unless you are talking about the box you put food in to heat up, because the internet apparently thinks doing that will KILL YOU DEAD.

 

8 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I have different question about magnets... how do you know that North pole of magnet is pulling south pole? How we can say which pole is which?

See diagram in the same post as your question

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by p1t1o

[Darnok]

8 minutes ago, KSK said:

 so it's very hard to tell what's actually happening to the brain when exposed to cellphone radiation.

You guys see things like... it is hard to tell how its affecting = it is safe
I have different approach if it is hard to tell = not safe

Guess which is safer approach to human health.

[Kryten]

But there's no connection between this effect and mobile phones, because EM radiation and magnetic fields aren't the same thing. 

[p1t1o]

1 minute ago, Darnok said:

You guys see things like... it is hard to tell how its affecting = it is safe
I have different approach if it is hard to tell = not safe

Guess which is safer approach to human health.

Then you are going to have a hard time because "it is hard to tell" quite a lot of things about the brain, Mr.Obtuse.

For example, "it is hard to tell" exactly what sleep is for.

What are you going to do about that?

Sometimes "it is hard to tell" means "the effects are so small we are not sure if they are beneath random noise".

[Darnok]

7 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

See diagram in the same post as your question

 

Lets say you have 2 identical magnets with no labels of any kind on them... how you can tell which pole is N and which is S? (you can't use Earth magnetic field for this).

Just now, p1t1o said:

Then you are going to have a hard time because "it is hard to tell" quite a lot of things about the brain, Mr.Obtuse.

For example, "it is hard to tell" exactly what sleep is for.

What are you going to do about that?

Sometimes "it is hard to tell" means "the effects are so small we are not sure if they are beneath random noise".

Try to talk with people and convince them to use safer things would be good start?

Or harmful effect are going to appear on future generations? Its is better not use things that we know can be harmful isn't?

[p1t1o]

1 minute ago, Darnok said:

Lets say you have 2 identical magnets with no labels of any kind on them... how you can tell which pole is N and which is S? (you can't use Earth magnetic field for this).

Firstly, for a great deal of things, the answer doesnt matter, what matters is that there is a difference.

However, you could tell which ones we refer to as "North" and "South" by moving a conductor through the field and measuring which direction current flows compared to the orientation of the poles.

Please dont ask me how we can tell which way the current flows, and then after that ask me to derive all of known physics, Im on my lunch break.

[YNM]

4 hours ago, Darnok said:

If we can detect so weak, as Earth, magnetic field then any stronger source of magnetic waves can affect our brains...

http://phys.org/news/2016-06-evidence-human-ability-earth-magnetic.html

Oh, really.

Edited October 17, 2016 by YNM

[Darnok]

18 minutes ago, KSK said:

Yes. Quite a few. Aren't search engines wonderful?

Summary

 

First link

Quote

Some limitations have to be considered. First, the study was performed with adult female subjects only. The generalizability of the results to, for example, male subjects, children, and the elderly has to be demonstrated in future research. Second, a sample size of thirty-one is relatively small. Future studies with larger sample sizes are required. Two other critical points are exposure time and follow up measurements. In this study, only one exposure condition (15 minutes) was used and a (long term) follow up measurement was not included. ...

15 minutes study on 30 people and that is called science?
Now if I remember correctly scientist that used so small sample studying vaccines is in jail... because his studies were WRONG
Please do read more under fragment I quoted it gets better with every line.

 

Second link

Quote

In conclusion, the present study has replicated

previous reports of MP-related increases in resting

alpha, and thus adds strength to the argument at which

there are MP-related bioeffects at the low levels that

MPs operate. Although the functional significance of

this alpha change cannot be determined at present, it

should be pointed out that alpha changes of the

magnitude reported in this study have not previously,

or in this study, been found to relate to health outcomes,

either positive or negative.

So those studies says nothing... as authors stated.

 

3rd link

Quote

Compared with the young subjects, the elderly subjects showed a statistically significant increment of the inter-hemispheric coherence of frontal and temporal alpha wave rhythms (about 8-12 Hz) during the GSM condition. In conclusion, these data suggest that GSM electromagnetic fields of a mobile phone affect inter-hemispheric synchronization of the dominant (alpha wave) EEG rhythms as a function of the physiological aging. This study provides further evidence that physiological aging is related to changes in the functional organization of cortical neural synchronization.

 

Ups looks like devices does affect our brains... even after "Exposure duration: continuous for 45 min".

[Darnok]

14 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

However, you could tell which ones we refer to as "North" and "South" by moving a conductor through the field and measuring which direction current flows compared to the orientation of the poles.

Please dont ask me how we can tell which way the current flows, and then after that ask me to derive all of known physics, Im on my lunch break.

But this is not answer for my question.

All you can do in your experiment is to say that magnets does have two poles, but it doesn't say which is which and you can't say that N attracts S and N repels N.

My point is I can create hypothesis that would say: N attracts N pole and N repels S pole.
Now remember to start from zero and forget every rule about magnetism and current you know.

Can you prove that my hypothesis is wrong? Is there somekind of different properties of N pole field that allows you to distinct it from S pole field?

 

[Green Baron]

49 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

I've never heard of microwaves causing cancer? A quick google only brings up results about how they *don't* cause cancer.

 

 

Ehmm, then the search was too quick :-)

 

Back on topic, this was about magnetism and a possible sense in humans to sense magnetism, like some birds or fishes can. Magnetism. Not electromagnetism.

Two different explanations of how such a sense could work in an organism have been proposed.

@Darnok, would you consider changing the thread title ?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

Without magnetic field it's even worse.