Expanding Bases

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

I've finally reached the point where I can competently craft, launch, and land bases (my game is stock except for information mods like KER) so now I get contracts to "Expand Mun Base". My question is how do you plan your initial base crafts to be able to accept later expansion craft? i'm terrible landing/docking things on top of already landed craft so i'm looking more at how do I align docking ports on various craft so they match up later. TY in advance for any suggestions.

[bewing]

It's very difficult to match up docking ports for craft that are landed. Even if you have them perfectly matched in the editor, terrain issues will often prevent a successful docking. My favorite answer is to use klaws, and make all the expansion parts be rovers.

You can make this even easier by adding vertical surfaces for the klaws to attach to.

For example:

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

TY. My first choice was rovers but i'm having a heck of a time getting early tier craft to link up with later tier craft because of the diameter differences. So, Claws count as if I just added 8 bedrooms to my base?  or can you transfer crew through Claws?  I just discovered I can transfer crew through fuel tanks.   go figure.

[Aegolius13]

I feel like the stock game comes up short on these contracts, since there's no practical way to accomplish these without ridiculously skilled hover-dock piloting, or absolutely perfectly aligned docking ports on wheeled rovers. 

My favored approach is using the mod "Kerbal Assembly System / Kerbal Inventory Systems."  You can just land the two components near each other, and use the "port" parts to dock the two vessels.  )You can approximate the same result in stock by using the console menu to complete a contract after getting the vessels nearby._  

One other stock solution might be to send your old base into orbit, dock there, then send it back to surface.  However, you'd have to design carefully to make the combined craft landable.  

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Aegolius13

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

 

8 minutes ago, Aegolius13 said:

One other stock solution might be to send your old base into orbit

There's an idea. I do have enough fuel left in the original lander to make orbit.   hummmm...   landing again though...   what the heck. challenge accepted.

[Snark]

Yeah, I mostly play with stock parts (well, other than SpaceY 'coz it's so much fun)... but the docking-on-the-surface thing is such a pain, and I just can't make myself use the klaw-- it's totally immersion-breaking to me, I simply can't make myself believe that I can transfer fuel through that thing.

So, I use Kerbal Attachment System for this.  Most of KAS I don't use at all (it's a big mod, has lots of stuff in it), but it has one specific part that's great for building surface bases.  It's a small, light, radially attachable "connector port" that you can attach pretty much anywhere.  To hook up two ships on the surface:  have a connector port on each one, and land them within a couple of dozen meters of each other.  Send an EVA kerbal over to ship A, click on connector port, choose "Link".  Walk over to ship B, click on connector port, choose "Link".  Presto, the two ports are now connected by a nice-looking "pipe", and the ships now count as one, same as if they were docked.  To disconnect, just send the EVA kerbal again, click on a port, choose "Unlink".

Works great, looks great, does exactly what I want it to. 

 

[Signo]

11 minutes ago, Kerbal Fried Chicken said:

 

There's an idea. I do have enough fuel left in the original lander to make orbit.   hummmm...   landing again though...   what the heck. challenge accepted.

Good luck - I second the claw solution, but this is "absolutely Kerbal".

 

[Rath]

You could possibly use the claw, or mount some small engines to the side and drive it up so you can adjust the height with the engines to it can dock.

[bewing]

5 hours ago, Kerbal Fried Chicken said:

TY. My first choice was rovers but i'm having a heck of a time getting early tier craft to link up with later tier craft because of the diameter differences. So, Claws count as if I just added 8 bedrooms to my base?  or can you transfer crew through Claws?  I just discovered I can transfer crew through fuel tanks.   go figure.

What any type of docking port accomplishes (including the klaw) is to turn 2 ships into one ship. So everything adds together. If you have living space for 4 on the first ship, and for 6 on the second ship, then the combined ship has room for 10. You can always transfer fuel, crew, electricity, ore, or anything else from one ship to the other after they are docked -- because after they are docked, it's all just one ship.

[OHara]

In case you decide to try your original plan -- aligning docking ports on the ground -- I have had success on Mun and Minmus building a base with small sections, each section having both rover wheels and landing legs.

The landing legs are set to lift the section somewhat higher than it sits on the wheels.  Given a base with its legs extended, a new section with its own probe core and solar power to drives up to align docking ports with the base in every direction except height.   Upon extending its legs the new section is likely to dock to the base the new section rises.  If the new section doesn't rise high enough, I briefly retract the legs on the base.  

This does require a flat patch of ground, but the flat patch can have some slope, so long as the rovers are capable of driving around on that slope, maybe up to 15°.

When I put this into practice ( image image image ) I used struts instead of legs for some parts, and sometimes moved un-powered sections with a rover, but given hindsight I would prefer to have done exactly what I wrote above.

[Wcmille]

I'd suggest practicing building your bases on the flats of Minmus to get started. The most important thing is to recreate the same dock port versus lander leg height. Some people create a standard base that they mount everything on to ensure consistent height. I also watched you tube videos of people constructing bases to see their technique.

[Sharpy]

For lower gravity bodies, like Minmus, give your base modules decent RCS and just fly them up to the right position. On Mun you might need to use Vernors at least though.

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

Thank you all for the great answers. Like Snark I'm not a great fan of the Claw solution. (But there's no trick I wouldn't use to get the job done.) I'm going to try the Orbit-Dock-Land method on this save simply because the only docking ports on the already landed craft are on top. (And it's something Jeb would try  ) On a parallel track I'll load a sandbox game and see if I can't sort out better planned base progression for the stock tiers. Again; thanks for all the suggestions.

[Ohm is Futile]

17 hours ago, OHara said:

[snip]

I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned landing legs. Those are my number one solution to alignment issues due to height. For starters, you can mess with the spring and damper strengths to play with height a little bit. You can also make it so the wheels actually place the vehicle lower than the landing legs would and deploy the landing legs to move the new attachment up, passing in front of the docking port and hopefully have them connect.

Of course, larger modules and difficult terrain will always pose problems unless you use KAS the way Snark suggested.

[Palaceviking]

Or, build an entire base or several sections of it in the vab/sph first, launch and undock then redock everything.l, revert, add landing engines, check centre of thrust is good, hack gravity(to match where you're landing) and go for a tootle around the ksc to iron out any problems. 

Then revert and with painstaking difficulty (trust me it's worth it) reassemble your base into a rocket shape and add fairing. Assemble on reaching desired orbit and land.

Points -

1-each section will need controls and rcs/sas

2-make sure your base has the dv to land!

3-you can go through this process with a base you already have landed and addons by merging craft.

4-i think you're playing with fire (bill disapproves  )with regards to landing centre of thrust! for the sake of jebs fun pls test your landing in the safety of the ksc(where most of my recruits/tourists/passersby have met a grizzly end).

[Death Engineering]

On 1/4/2017 at 8:44 PM, Ohm is Futile said:

For starters, you can mess with the spring and damper strengths to play with height a little bit.

This ^^ works like a champ!

[Fury1SOG]

I recommend Dmagic Flexible Docking Ports!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/108704-12x-dmagics-modlets-latest-update-portrait-stats-130-1-9-2017/&do=findComment&comment=2906323

[Sharpy]

On 4.01.2017 at 3:37 AM, Aegolius13 said:

I feel like the stock game comes up short on these contracts, since there's no practical way to accomplish these without ridiculously skilled hover-dock piloting, or absolutely perfectly aligned docking ports on wheeled rovers.

The right stock solution is to combine these two. Make the "core module" ports a little too high for the "side module rovers". Give your modules good, strong RCS. Maybe slap some extra Vernors on the bottom. Drive up to the port, line up using the wheels, then hover up to the grab distance using RCS. Help the port align the module using the RCS too.

[Spricigo]

Depending in your 'engineering skills' and how much you want to commit to the project you may consider designing a crane/forklift. One idea I like is something a stumble upon some time ago in this forums:

 

[HalcyonSon]

On 1/3/2017 at 6:59 PM, Snark said:

Yeah, I mostly play with stock parts (well, other than SpaceY 'coz it's so much fun)... but the docking-on-the-surface thing is such a pain, and I just can't make myself use the klaw-- it's totally immersion-breaking to me, I simply can't make myself believe that I can transfer fuel through that thing.

 

On 1/3/2017 at 11:22 PM, bewing said:

What any type of docking port accomplishes (including the klaw) is to turn 2 ships into one ship. So everything adds together. If you have living space for 4 on the first ship, and for 6 on the second ship, then the combined ship has room for 10. You can always transfer fuel, crew, electricity, ore, or anything else from one ship to the other after they are docked -- because after they are docked, it's all just one ship.

Maybe it's a difficulty setting, but I haven't been able to transfer fuel or monoprop through the Klaw in 1.2.2.  It would have made my life much easier on several missions, such as my first Kerbal and Capsule rescue from Mun surface and my 180 inclination satellite reboost.  I now have a useless Klaw permanently attached to a satellite in a high retrograde orbit for no other reason than it decreases clutter.  If I could have transferred fuel, the satellite on its own could easily have made the correct orbit, and the Klaw could have returned to Kerbin. 

I don't have a problem suspending disbelief for Klaw fuel transfer.  Who's to say that Kerbals don't have something like a super-strong mushroom patch and some fix-a-flat?  Or even a small automated ultrasonic welder?  It's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

I once used Thuds to hover a Munbase expansion, with a Terrier to push it closer to the first section.  Absolute nightmare to maneuver and align because everything worked off the same throttle.  Required constant right-click menu fine-tuning of thrust.  Horrendous Kraken bait trying to quickload a hovering base section within 1m of a section sitting on landing legs.  I plan to use Docking Port equipped mini lander/rover tugs to assemble my next base.

[Skipper115]

I do apologise for necroposting, but my answer on these missions was  "robotics". Imagine a 20-30 meter canadarm on hydraulics and hinges with a docking  port on the very end? All you need is to land an expansion close enough to the original base