totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[eonmoon]

heh. found a biome spot with high ammounts of dirt. so good spot to sift there.never found anything so high when scanning.

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, eonmoon said:

heh. found a biome spot with high ammounts of dirt. so good spot to sift there.never found anything so high when scanning.

Sifting dirt gives you small amounts of stuff proportional to the planetary average. It's only suitable for small-scale production-if you want anything more than a tiny dribble of stuff, set up a mining outpost somewhere.

[DStaal]

45 minutes ago, eonmoon said:

heh. found a biome spot with high ammounts of dirt. so good spot to sift there.never found anything so high when scanning.

Scanning from orbit is always imprecise, typically averaging a bit over the biome.  (The exact details vary a bit depending on whether you're using stock or ScanSat, and what ground-level work you may have done.)

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Scanning from orbit is always imprecise, typically averaging a bit over the biome.  (The exact details vary a bit depending on whether you're using stock or ScanSat, and what ground-level work you may have done.)

Different resources will vary by different proportions. Is the 'variance' part of the resourcegen config the %age by which it varies over the biome?

[DStaal]

5 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Different resources will vary by different proportions. Is the 'variance' part of the resourcegen config the %age by which it varies over the biome?

Honestly, I can never find good docs on this anywhere.  I believe the variance is the difference between the max and min within a biome, while the dispersal is the 'clumpyness' of the deposits - how quickly it drops from the max.

But that wasn't really relevant to what I was saying earlier: Orbital scanning isn't exact.  It gives you a general idea of where there is likely to be any specific ore (one way it does this is by giving you the average for the biome instead of the local value), but without groundwork can't be relied on for more than a general overview.  This is regardless of what the definitions are - as long as the resource isn't completely evenly distributed, orbital scans won't give you the exact picture of where the resource is on the ground on their own.

[voicey99]

Just now, DStaal said:

Honestly, I can never find good docs on this anywhere.  I believe the variance is the difference between the max and min within a biome, while the dispersal is the 'clumpyness' of the deposits - how quickly it drops from the max.

But that wasn't really relevant to what I was saying earlier: Orbital scanning isn't exact.  It gives you a general idea of where there is likely to be any specific ore (one way it does this is by giving you the average for the biome instead of the local value), but without groundwork can't be relied on for more than a general overview.  This is regardless of what the definitions are - as long as the resource isn't completely evenly distributed, orbital scans won't give you the exact picture of where the resource is on the ground on their own.

It is relevant. The higher the dispersal, the more important ground-truthing is. For resources that have dispersions of 20 it's a lot less important that one with 50 as the actual numbers vary less from the biome average.

[sh1pman]

@RoverDude My MPU is overheating for some reason. It has more than enough cooling, and the radiators aren't at max cooling capacity. Everything else is fine, even the drills.

2.5m MPU requires 100kW of cooling per module, with geology bonus it should be 2 * 100kW * 1.36 = 272 kW total cooling required. Drills take 50kW per separator, counting geology bonus i'ts 2 * 50kW *1.71 = 171 kW. Sums up to  443 kW. Two medium TCSs provide 500kW of cooling. Should be enough, right? 

Spoiler

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by sh1pman

[voicey99]

4 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

@RoverDude My MPU is overheating for some reason. It has more than enough cooling, and the radiators aren't at max cooling capacity. Everything else is fine, even the drills.

<schnip>

Last I know of, stock TCSs do not play nice with MKS drills/MPUs as they have a massive max cooling stat (the drills/MPU, that is) that they reserve for themselves in order to accommodate kolonisation bonuses. Your MPU is overheating because your drills have effectively reserved all the cooling for themselves and left none for everything else, but your reactor has fixed panels not cooling the drills, which is why it's not overheating.

Put some fixed radiators on the flywheel (so they cool the MPU but not the drills-add a lot more panels than you need or else kolonisation bonuses will make it overheat in the future) or use the Ranger Thermal Control System that comes with MKS (specially designed for high-coolant parts, one will cool a whole vessel).

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Last I know of, stock TCSs do not play nice with MKS drills/MPUs as they have a massive max cooling stat (the drills/MPU, that is) that they reserve for themselves in order to accommodate kolonisation bonuses. Your MPU is overheating because your drills have effectively reserved all the cooling for themselves and left none for everything else, but your reactor has fixed panels not cooling the drills, which is why it's not overheating.

Put some fixed radiators on the flywheel (so they cool the MPU but not the drills-add a lot more panels than you need or else kolonisation bonuses will make it overheat in the future) or use the Ranger Thermal Control System that comes with MKS (specially designed for high-coolant parts, one will cool a whole vessel).

So, the drills eat up more cooling capacity than they actually need? Well, that's certainly a thing that's good to know before launch. How much more?

[Terwin]

9 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

So, the drills eat up more cooling capacity than they actually need? Well, that's certainly a thing that's good to know before launch. How much more?

I believe they reserve their max cooling capacity(10x their base cooling need to allow for bonuses)

I have found that the Ranger Thermal Control is really the best way to go for MKS drills.  It requires Landed status to work, but you would have a hard time drilling without being landed anyway.

[sh1pman]

2 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I believe they reserve their max cooling capacity(10x their base cooling need to allow for bonuses)

I have found that the Ranger Thermal Control is really the best way to go for MKS drills.  It requires Landed status to work, but you would have a hard time drilling without being landed anyway.

Yea, but they need a node to attach, and I ran out of nodes, and there's this whole issue with asteroid mining...

[RoverDude]

There are some changes in 1.3.1 that should sort this.

[Terwin]

1 minute ago, sh1pman said:

Yea, but they need a node to attach, and I ran out of nodes, and there's this whole issue with asteroid mining...

The back-up option is to use fixed radiators like you did with your power plant on everything but drills, and let the extendable radiators handle the drills.

(or wait for 1.3.1)

I don't usually drill asteroids for anything except ore/fuel as their limited contents are just not worth the effort to collect them for much other than replaceable drop-tanks, and the stock drill is plenty for this.

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yea, but they need a node to attach, and I ran out of nodes, and there's this whole issue with asteroid mining...

What about on top of your reactor? If there are no nodes, just KIS-attach a cubic strut to it somewhere and stick the TCS on that. For the moment, until the 1.3.2 ver rolls around, the small drill has cooling of 1GW, medium 2GW and large 6GW (per bay installed). On asteroids, deployable TCSs work fine but you will need to put some panels on your non-drill stuff. I also recall that MKS drills cannot drill asteroids, and stock drills can extract all resources.

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, Terwin said:

I don't usually drill asteroids for anything except ore/fuel as their limited contents are just not worth the effort to collect them for much other than replaceable drop-tanks, and the stock drill is plenty for this.

Do you use ART? It makes asteroids more realistic, like 1000x bigger and denser. Can mine a lot of stuff from those.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, sh1pman said:

Do you use ART? It makes asteroids more realistic, like 1000x bigger and denser. Can mine a lot of stuff from those.

Only if you can drag them into orbit first. In order to be able to move them around at anything more than 1μm/s² you need to burn off so much mass with the laser they are just ordinary roids.

[sh1pman]

5 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Only if you can drag them into orbit first. In order to be able to move them around at anything more than 1μm/s² you need to burn off so much mass with the laser they are just ordinary roids.

But mass drivers have really good Isp. And it's not like I need to drag it all the way to low orbit. Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of dv to capture them in Kerbin SOI.

[eonmoon]

heh. I sent up a probe ship with 8 small remote landers eith the ground detectors? so I could get better info in the biomes. then I swooped mouse about different biomes I scanned for best spots and found that high area. need to try agai  sadly due to a mistake revert . had ship tip on me and I didnt pick right reversion. ohwell

[RoverDude]

Quick question for the peanut gallery

For those who use Ranger modules (talking habs and greenhouses) on your orbital station...  why not use the Bigelow analogues that come with the pack?  Just seeing if there is something I am missing on this one

[jd284]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Quick question for the peanut gallery

For those who use Ranger modules (talking habs and greenhouses) on your orbital station...  why not use the Bigelow analogues that come with the pack?  Just seeing if there is something I am missing on this one

In my case it took me forever to realize the habs could be reconfigured as greenhouses. Since then I've replaced all the ranger parts.

So as far as I'm concerned, you're not missing anything except maybe a description or tooltip tweak on the Tundra Ag modules hinting that the expandable habs should be used as efficiency parts on space stations.

[sh1pman]

Are unmanned probes supposed to raise colonization scores? Because that's what I'm seeing right now. 

[voicey99]

1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

Are unmanned probes supposed to raise colonization scores? Because that's what I'm seeing right now. 

Not as far as I'm aware. Do you have any kerbals in MKS parts within the SOI? Note they start at 100%.

[sh1pman]

Just now, voicey99 said:

Not as far as I'm aware. Do you have any kerbals in MKS parts within the SOI? Note they start at 100%.

Nope, never sent any kerbals to this particular SOI. TBH, it's probably some weird mod conflict.

[notthebobo]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Quick question for the peanut gallery

For those who use Ranger modules (talking habs and greenhouses) on your orbital station...  why not use the Bigelow analogues that come with the pack?  Just seeing if there is something I am missing on this one

For me, they seem to be more "jiggly", so its harder to launch them and not as stable to build off them.  They work well dangling off the sides, but not as core structures. Also, there aren't any good mounting points on the ends for things like struts.

Love the design and concept, though.

[Jebs_SY]

@RoverDude

Hello.   I am playing a highly modded install and the performance is always on the edge. I just figured out, that a huge amount of USI drills (automated industrial stripminers) have a big performance impact.
For a fast LH2 production I build a 300 part vehicle, with around 150 of these drills. Loading this vehicle into the SPH takes 3,5 minutes (on a Core i5-4570 with 24GB RAM) and onto the rundway 5,5 minutes.
Removing the drills, save it, reload it into the SPH takes 3 seconds and onto the runway takes 50 seconds.
I put MKS 52.2 on a KSP 1.3 vanilla and loading a vehicle with 120 of these drills also take 2 minutes.
While the game loads, the logs show "[LOG 20:36:08.734] Found 15 overheatable modules" again and again, like 1 or 2 times per attached drill.
On "Vanilla+MKS" this happens 3 times per second, on my highly modded install it can achieve 0.5-1 per second.
Deleting (for a test) USITools.dll from the highly modded installation, I can load the 300 part vehicle in 25 seconds into the SPH and in 55 seconds onto the runway.

I have the feeling, that for each drill the game iterates over the hole ship/assembly. Or it evaluates the ship (or something) one time per drill. On "vanilla+MKS" this is faster than on my "highly modded". At least that would make sense.

What I wanted to ask, if you have an idea what happens here / where it iterates/evaluates that often and if this is maybe a bug or if this is a needed evaluation?

BR
Jebs

Edited September 23, 2017 by Jebs_SY