contract: take pressure readings

[michaelvf]

So I got a contract where I have to take pressure readings in 4 different locations at the surface.

My tech is quite low but I can just about build a simple airplane (my first airplane which works btw) which can take me to the locations... My problem is that it is quite impossible to land in the rugged hilly terrain and I cannot get to ground level.... So what to do?

One solution is to build a bigger airplane and attach a rover to it... (if that is at all possible at my current tech level) and then drop it near the targets...

Another is to add parachutes to the plane and hope I can land it like that, and then maybe drive it around.. Probably not going to work since the wheels break off rather easily... 

Or maybe I can just fly the plane really really low and take the reading while flying? Will require some skill though since my plane is wobbly and the ground is hilly...

How do you solve contracts like this? I mean, these are some of the first contracts that are offered so they *should* be easy? 

First time I tried the career mode - I usually just build big rockets and shoot for the stars so this kind of challenge is rather new.

Br Michael

 

[Blaarkies]

11 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

So I got a contract where I have to take pressure readings in 4 different locations at the surface.

My tech is quite low but I can just about build a simple airplane (my first airplane which works btw) which can take me to the locations... My problem is that it is quite impossible to land in the rugged hilly terrain and I cannot get to ground level.... So what to do?

One solution is to build a bigger airplane and attach a rover to it... (if that is at all possible at my current tech level) and then drop it near the targets...

Another is to add parachutes to the plane and hope I can land it like that, and then maybe drive it around.. Probably not going to work since the wheels break off rather easily... 

Or maybe I can just fly the plane really really low and take the reading while flying? Will require some skill though since my plane is wobbly and the ground is hilly...

How do you solve contracts like this? I mean, these are some of the first contracts that are offered so they *should* be easy? 

First time I tried the career mode - I usually just build big rockets and shoot for the stars so this kind of challenge is rather new.

Br Michael

 

Easiest: Add parachutes to your plane...lots of them. Glide slowly near the location and pop the chutes. Easy way to land and take readings, you could repack the chutes with an engineer and take off again, or just press recover button(top of screen) and launch a new plane from ksc to the second location.

Easy: Add much more wings, enough to glide at 30m/s. This way you can land even on the mountains(a little practice is needed)

Medium: Rocket with an X-15 tip(just a few fins on the final part, and chutes of course). Launch this in the direction of the location and guide it down like an ICBM to the target. Pop chutes when there. Then launch a new one.(this is the quickest way if the locations are scattered across the other side of Kerbin)

Hard: VTOL...build a plane that can take off and land vertically. Built correctly, you can land on the VAB's roof easily(once you get skilled in controlling it) so landing on the mountains, hills, ocean becomes really easy.(Vernier RCS thrusters and lots of reaction wheels make it possible)

Hardest: I don't know, walk there?

All in all, in early career your best bet is probably extra wings or chutes.

[michaelvf]

Thanks for the advice, glad to know I wasnt overlooking some obvious simple solution. Parachutes it is!

[steve_v]

19 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

How do you solve contracts like this?

Much the same way you are going at it - with a light plane.

22 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

it is quite impossible to land in the rugged hilly terrain

With a sufficiently low stall speed, one can land on top of a mountain in this game.
Not saying it's easy, but it can be done.

20 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

Another is to add parachutes to the plane and hope I can land it like that, and then maybe drive it around.. Probably not going to work since the wheels break off rather easily...

'chutes help, the small landing gear being rubbish since 1.1 doesn't. Make the lightest aircraft you can, and taxi with care. Once you get the small deployable gear this becomes much less frustrating.

I've never really figured out how these contracts were intended to be done, accurate landings are one of the most difficult things to do in game, decent wheels are way up the tree, maybe you're supposed to do it with rockets... but then not much in career mode makes sense, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Streetwind]

You can probably increase your chances for a wilderness landing greatly, if you tailor your aircraft for the job. Aircraft design is a difficult and deep topic, and if you just built your first one, it's likely that there is room for improvement. Particularly, if you can lower your stall speed (the point where you go so slow that you lose lift and fall out of the sky), then landings become much easier - both on and off the runway. It's quite possible to build planes that take off and land at well below 50 m/s. You'll be surprised how different that feels - it's like floating down like a feather.

I recommend this KSPTV recording that RocketPCGaming did last month, called "Airplanes to Spaceplanes 101". He illustrates how to build easy to fly planes with relatively early components, explains exactly what you must do to achieve certain effects (particlarly low-speed flight!), and is just generally chock full of useful advice. Watching is well worth your time if you're looking to improve your plane building skills.

 

EDIT: whoa, ninja'd hard

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Streetwind

[bewing]

56 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

So I got a contract where I have to take pressure readings in 4 different locations at the surface.

My tech is quite low but I can just about build a simple airplane (my first airplane which works btw) which can take me to the locations... My problem is that it is quite impossible to land in the rugged hilly terrain and I cannot get to ground level.... So what to do?

If you scout the area from the air, there may be someplace not too far where you can land -- find somewhere that is more level and easy to land on. Then drive to the sample locations. If there is water nearby, it is quite easy to land in water. As everyone has said, it sounds like you need to practice your plane building skills. That is the whole purpose of this contract -- to make you figure out how to land a plane in the wilderness. Parachutes are one of the best solutions for a beginner plane engineer.

 

56 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

Another is to add parachutes to the plane and hope I can land it like that, and then maybe drive it around.. Probably not going to work since the wheels break off rather easily... 

The contract system is designed to give you better wheels fairly quickly. You will get a contract soon to test out the retractable wheels, and then you can use those on your planes until you fill that contract.

56 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

Or maybe I can just fly the plane really really low and take the reading while flying?

No -- if it says the samples need to be taken on the surface, then you have to be landed. Nothing else will work.

56 minutes ago, michaelvf said:

How do you solve contracts like this? I mean, these are some of the first contracts that are offered so they *should* be easy? 

That's exactly what surprises me. This sounds like it might be a 2 star or 3 star contract? The more stars it is, the harder it is.

My solution is always that as soon as I have the starter wheels, I drive around KSC and pick up all those science points. Then I use those points to get better airplane tech and better wheels. Then I use that better tech to fly long distances and land in the wilderness.

 

[ForScience6686]

Try a science bomber, and drop a simple probe at the sites, fly home.  Much easier then anything else imo.  

[michaelvf]

13 minutes ago, ForScience6686 said:

Try a science bomber, and drop a simple probe at the sites, fly home.  Much easier then anything else imo.  

I LIKE this idea... any examples on the forum for this?

I guess I just need a "bomb" consisting of a small probe, solar panel, antenna and science instrument... Then attach three of these to the plane via couplers and drop them near the site. Sounds relatively easy...

[Streetwind]

The tricky part is getting the ground clearance to carry these bombs on a low-tech plane, since there is no mk1 cargo bay and the starter landing gear is small and ill suited for raising the body up high. You'll need to mount your wings higher up instead. Additionally, bring up the center of thrust marker and tune the position of the wings, bombs and engines carefully so that your engines continue to thrust through your center of mass. Else you get thrust torque wrenching your plane around, in proportion to your throttle setting. And mind the fact that you're losing mass as you drop bombs, potentially moving your CoM. It shouldn't be hard at all to find a good setup, but as a newcomer you should definitely be made aware of this feature of physics. Unknowingly introducing large amounts of thrust torque can take a perfectly fine plane from 'flies like a dream' to 'flips out within three seconds of liftoff' through seemingly unrelated, minor design changes.

I should know, my first forum post ever was asking about why the heck my own first airplane wouldn't stop trying to kill me after I mounted the engines high up on the tail like on a learjet, simply because I thought it looked cool  

[michaelvf]

31 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

The tricky part is getting the ground clearance to carry these bombs on a low-tech plane, since there is no mk1 cargo bay and the starter landing gear is small and ill suited for raising the body up high. You'll need to mount your wings higher up instead. Additionally, bring up the center of thrust marker and tune the position of the wings, bombs and engines carefully so that your engines continue to thrust through your center of mass. Else you get thrust torque wrenching your plane around, in proportion to your throttle setting. And mind the fact that you're losing mass as you drop bombs, potentially moving your CoM. It shouldn't be hard at all to find a good setup, but as a newcomer you should definitely be made aware of this feature of physics. Unknowingly introducing large amounts of thrust torque can take a perfectly fine plane from 'flies like a dream' to 'flips out within three seconds of liftoff' through seemingly unrelated, minor design changes.

I should know, my first forum post ever was asking about why the heck my own first airplane wouldn't stop trying to kill me after I mounted the engines high up on the tail like on a learjet, simply because I thought it looked cool  

yeah, ground clearance is actually hard enough as it is on takeoff - I crash a lot.....

I followed the design principles in the tutorials and I *should* have a pretty stable plane but it seems to rotate and spin a lot and SAS is actually necessary.. even then turning it is quite hard. I think I might have to fiddle with the pitch,yaw,roll settings on the control surfaces... 

I was thinking of just mounting the bombs on the top of the plane and spin upside down when I drop them  At least I will keep the COM moving back and forth in the center of the plane which should be doable..

[HalcyonSon]

9 hours ago, michaelvf said:

So I got a contract where I have to take pressure readings in 4 different locations at the surface.

My tech is quite low but I can just about build a simple airplane (my first airplane which works btw) which can take me to the locations... My problem is that it is quite impossible to land in the rugged hilly terrain and I cannot get to ground level.... So what to do?

One solution is to build a bigger airplane and attach a rover to it... (if that is at all possible at my current tech level) and then drop it near the targets...

Another is to add parachutes to the plane and hope I can land it like that, and then maybe drive it around.. Probably not going to work since the wheels break off rather easily... 

How far from KSC is the waypoint?  On the same continent, or opposite side of Kerbin?  Personally, I combined your ideas.  Landed a long-distance carrier aircraft on a flat area nearby, then detached a micro-drone with four parachutes and used that to collect the science.  The drone was simple: Okto Probe Core, Radial Decoupler, Juno, Mk0 fueslage, and Small Circular Intake with one of the smallest wing segments offset through the fuselage and a pair of control surfaces mounted at  90 degrees and offset through the fuselage.  The carrier was difficult to land with starter wheels, but manageable.  The drone settled perfectly onto its wheels, grabbed the science, cut the parachute, flew to the next spot and repeated the process.  My Kerbal and carrier then returned home after collecting the science from the drone.  The drone was left behind.

3 hours ago, michaelvf said:

I was thinking of just mounting the bombs on the top of the plane and spin upside down when I drop them  At least I will keep the COM moving back and forth in the center of the plane which should be doable..

Bingo.  Keep it Simple   Just use the stock CoM and CoL indicators to place the drone right over the carrier's CoM and verify that the drone's wings don't move the CoL too much.  Bombs should be even easier because they're smaller, lighter, and have no wings.

I wish I had thought of a way to make the science bomb work before creating my micro-drone.  I was very much concerned that I would fly all the way around Kerbin and drop the bomb, only to have it disappear before I got back to KSC.  Turns out, all I had to do was fly the bomber in circles until the bomb landed.  Landed vessels persist after you leave the area.  

Edited January 9, 2017 by HalcyonSon

[Invader Jim]

10 hours ago, michaelvf said:

So I got a contract where I have to take pressure readings in 4 different locations at the surface.

How do you solve contracts like this? I mean, these are some of the first contracts that are offered so they *should* be easy? 

 

I don't.  I purposely never accept any of these contracts because they are too much trouble.  I just stick to other contract types. 

[Spricigo]

5 hours ago, michaelvf said:

I followed the design principles in the tutorials and I *should* have a pretty stable plane but it seems to rotate and spin a lot and SAS is actually necessary.. even then turning it is quite hard. I think I might have to fiddle with the pitch,yaw,roll settings on the control surfaces... 

Even following some basic principles there is still lots of things to do wrong for lack of experience. Fortunately there is a lot of experienced and helpfull people around to point out what we are doing wrong if we ask.

On top of my mind limiting each control surface to only respond to yaw,  pitch or roll commands makes wonders to stability and its often ignored by new players.

 

5 hours ago, michaelvf said:

I was thinking of just mounting the bombs on the top of the plane and spin upside down when I drop them  At least I will keep the COM moving back and forth in the center of the plane which should be doable..

Just make sure you set parachutes to open in the same stage you drop the bombs and stay near (few hundred meters) until it touchdown. If you move too far before it land it may de-spawn (may be unlike but better to be sure).

[HalcyonSon]

13 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

Just make sure you set parachutes to open in the same stage you drop the bombs and stay near (few hundred meters) until it touchdown. If you move too far before it land it may de-spawn (may be unlike but better to be sure).

I think the distance is 2.3 km.

[Palaceviking]

Yep 2.3km , the bain of my life.

[ForScience6686]

On 1/9/2017 at 6:05 AM, michaelvf said:

I LIKE this idea... any examples on the forum for this?

I guess I just need a "bomb" consisting of a small probe, solar panel, antenna and science instrument... Then attach three of these to the plane via couplers and drop them near the site. Sounds relatively easy...

Pretty much, but don't forget parachutes.  I don't have an example as I lost my save.  But just build a stable bomber, and cram the probes in.  I recall I could get 4 in the large mk2 bay.  After dropping circle around to make sure they all deployed properly.  It may take some fiddling with parachute settings and when to release but you'll get it.  I recommend dropping them relatively close to the ground, but high enough so they can slow down all the way.