Deep Space Comms - Orbit vs Landed

[ErevanGaming]

Hi everybody =)

I've finally gotten to the point in my career to send out probes to Eve and Moho. My question is, is it better to have some sort of deep space relay satellite network or build communications outpost of sorts on Kerbin's poles?

 

Regards and thanks in advance.

[bewing]

IMO, it's better to send a decent relay sat with (or ahead) of your probe. Kerbin already has good comms -- generally you don't need to add more. It's the other end of the link that's short on comms (like, nothing).

[Blaarkies]

A probe with relay dishes can doe everything that antennae(direct) can do, and also be a node for relaying other probe's signals. Relay dishes are heavier though(there is no reason to have both on one craft...except maybe the atmospheric antenna?)

So pick your best relay dishes, stick 4-8 of them on a big fuel tank with an engine, probe core, solar...send it to Eve, get it in a eliptical polar orbit so that the Pe gets to 90km on the south pole of Eve...and the Ap almost exits the SOI at the north

[Magzimum]

Just combine them:

Make a relay satellite, and stick the science onto that.

[Snark]

10 hours ago, Blaarkies said:

A probe with relay dishes can doe everything that antennae(direct) can do, and also be a node for relaying other probe's signals. Relay dishes are heavier though(there is no reason to have both on one craft...except maybe the atmospheric antenna?)

So pick your best relay dishes, stick 4-8 of them on a big fuel tank with an engine, probe core, solar...send it to Eve, get it in a eliptical polar orbit so that the Pe gets to 90km on the south pole of Eve...and the Ap almost exits the SOI at the north

^ This.  One relay satellite placed this way can really simplify your life.

Other variations on the elliptical-polar-orbit thing:

• This probably goes without saying, but... if you're going to be doing surface exploring significantly away from the equator, then pick your pole accordingly-- i.e. if you'll be exploring the northern hemisphere, put your high Ap over the north pole, and likewise the other way around for the southern hemisphere.
• If you're going to be mainly confining your surface explorations to the daylight hours and just staying put at night time... then instead of putting your high Ap over the north or south pole, you can put it over the planet's equator on the sunlit side.  That way, you have reliable communications during the daylight hours, and lose them at night when you're not doing anything anyway.  (Unlike the high polar Ap, though, this solution isn't "permanent"-- your Ap will gradually move away from the daylight side as the planet orbits around the sun.  So it's a less useful option for a long-term base, but it's good on a timescale of weeks to months, which may be plenty long enough for you to get your exploration done, depending on what your strategy is.)

[ErevanGaming]

Thanks guys for your tips and suggestions! =)

[GoSlash27]

The way I'm doing it now, I have a high power relay out near the SoI of the destination planet, and then a lightweight local constellation around the body.

Duna and Eve get each get a 2x RA-15 repeater (earlier tech) while Jool and subsequent destinations (better tech) get a 2x RA-100 repeater. This is sufficient to bounce around signals on the rare occasion that Kerbin doesn't have line of sight.

The low power constellations are a set of 3 2x HG-5 repeaters at an altitude of 2x body radius. They can easily reach any point on the surface (with default propagation) and communicate with a communitron and bounce to each other if one of them is obscured.

Best,
-Slashy

[ErevanGaming]

Think I got my 2 Deep Space satellites set up right (I think) unfortunately, my first ever probe to Eve ran out of fuel for high orbit circularization ="> =D on the plus side though, got my frist ever science reports from a non-Kerbin-Mun-Minmus-Sun body! =D

[DerekL1963]

With the new fairings, you can put a relay sat on top of your rover/lander on top of your carrier stage and launch two birds with one lifter.

[Birdco_Space]

I tend to put high power relays in extremely elliptic polar orbits of Eve and Duna.  These 2 relays, along with Kerbin, will result in a very high percentage of time in contact for nearly every body, with slightly less effectiveness for Jool and Eeloo, but a lower power relay attached to a normal Science probe can assist in closing these gaps.

[DerekL1963]

8 hours ago, Birdco_Space said:

I tend to put high power relays in extremely elliptic polar orbits of Eve and Duna.  These 2 relays, along with Kerbin, will result in a very high percentage of time in contact for nearly every body, with slightly less effectiveness for Jool and Eeloo, but a lower power relay attached to a normal Science probe can assist in closing these gaps.

That's the real trick - once you unlock relay antennas, stop using non-relay antennas.  Then you leave previous spacecraft in place to serve as relays for later arrivals.

[ErevanGaming]

So far the score is...

Eve 3

My probes ZERO =D

Think I'll stick with my initial plan of trying to get all of the sciences points from Mun and Minmus =">

Thanks everybody for your tips and comments again =)

[SgtSnuggles]

On 2/19/2017 at 10:10 AM, ErevanGaming said:

So far the score is...

Eve 3

My probes ZERO =D

Think I'll stick with my initial plan of trying to get all of the sciences points from Mun and Minmus =">

Thanks everybody for your tips and comments again =)

Keep plugging away, I still havent left the Solar arena in that I just seem to suck at getting close to other planets, I ONCE came close to Eve but after months of playing I have only just figured out how to land on the Mun...GINGERLEY! Lost 2 fuel processor ships to overly sensitive RCS on the Mun just last night xD less than 3m from landing and my RCS then decides to kick in and flipped my ship over right on the surface haha. I have now however unlocked all vanilla research trees from just Kerbin, Mun, Minmus and a little of Solar orbitting though so its not needed to get anywhere else to unlock everything. A clever use of Labs and surface samples from the mun and minmus lead to huge science returns. Still doesnt help me get closer to Eve though

[ErevanGaming]

Thanks for the words of encouragement @SgtSnuggles =)

[SgtSnuggles]

Just now, ErevanGaming said:

Thanks for the words of encouragement @SgtSnuggles =)

This is by far the hardest game I have ever played and it is by far the most rewarding, we all should be encouraged regardless of skill level, it is worth it for all of us in the end

[ErevanGaming]

11 hours ago, SgtSnuggles said:

This is by far the hardest game I have ever played and it is by far the most rewarding, we all should be encouraged regardless of skill level, it is worth it for all of us in the end

Same here =)

I am planning to send out another ship to Eve this time with four relay satellites as cargo which would be deployed to make up the Eve relay satellite network with dishes pointing back to Kerbin. As always, this is another drone. =D I don't want to have it manned (don't like losing Kerbals ="> )

Based on my earlier failed probe missions, this is going to have excess/extra/tons-o fuel =D

Am wondering now how will controlling such a big ship handle due to the distance with Kerbin. =P

 

Regards =)

[SgtSnuggles]

8 hours ago, ErevanGaming said:

Same here =)

I am planning to send out another ship to Eve this time with four relay satellites as cargo which would be deployed to make up the Eve relay satellite network with dishes pointing back to Kerbin. As always, this is another drone. =D I don't want to have it manned (don't like losing Kerbals ="> )

Based on my earlier failed probe missions, this is going to have excess/extra/tons-o fuel =D

Am wondering now how will controlling such a big ship handle due to the distance with Kerbin. =P

 

Regards =)

Sounds like a mission to enjoy!

My personal mission at the minute is to fly a probe tot he Mun which mines, refills its own fuel tank and then can re orbit the mun to offload the ore to a carrier ship. I am still struggling to land on the mun with it xD Oh and when I say struggling I mean I get it there and roughly 3m before landing it tips over and ruins everything xD

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by SgtSnuggles

[DerekL1963]

11 hours ago, SgtSnuggles said:

My personal mission at the minute is to fly a probe tot he Mun which mines, refills its own fuel tank and then can re orbit the mun to offload the ore to a carrier ship. I am still struggling to land on the mun with it xD Oh and when I say struggling I mean I get it there and roughly 3m before landing it tips over and ruins everything xD

Minmus is generally a much better mining base...

[SgtSnuggles]

12 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

Minmus is generally a much better mining base...

I wont doubt you, I dont have enough knowledge to even try BUT baby steps

If I can get this proof of concept rocket to work on the Mun then it will also be able to do Minmus (they use the same staging sequence and parts.) I could even simply move it from the Mun to Minmus once ive got the mechanics down.  To be fair its more about me learning to land a rocket properly on a moon, I borrowed that Mechjeb Mod last night to see if it did anything differently and its coming down to me being more careful on landing so I am happy that I am almost there.

Mechjeb on the other hand couldn't land either as the last stage (before the payload is detached) is a Rhino engine but had little fuel....it tried to slow it down but far too close to the surface and by the time the payload engines were activated it was far too close and too fast to slow down. Warms my heart to know the AI couldnt do it either

[DerekL1963]

7 hours ago, SgtSnuggles said:

Mechjeb on the other hand couldn't land either as the last stage (before the payload is detached) is a Rhino engine but had little fuel....it tried to slow it down but far too close to the surface and by the time the payload engines were activated it was far too close and too fast to slow down. Warms my heart to know the AI couldnt do it either

I use MechJeb too, and generally I jettison any crasher stages (stages used to slow down before landing) above 20km or preferably above 30km.

[SgtSnuggles]

16 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

I use MechJeb too, and generally I jettison any crasher stages (stages used to slow down before landing) above 20km or preferably above 30km.

How I wish I had made that call at the time. I spent a further 2.5 hours last night launching a single design (with multiple tweaks throughout) and still havent managed my newly improved version of the fuel processor. I love this game but god damn that had me pulling my tiny hairs out last night tryign to pull it off, mech jeb couldnt handle it at all so i left that for smaller things like stabilizing orbit and transferring to moon itself however the landing was a sight to behold. 

I finally managed on the 5th attempt to get it in for a landing stage (manual ascent from kerbin was required) and I allowed mech jeb to plot and go for it. It was a beautiful descent, bang on the money and right before the landing it turned and fired the rocket ever so slightly to topple the damn thing over! next time I am just letting it get me to the Mun and I will take over, it seems the only logical choice until I can make more efficient rockets

 

Thanks for the numbers as well as im never sure when to do things I just feel my way along

[DerekL1963]

17 hours ago, SgtSnuggles said:

Thanks for the numbers as well as im never sure when to do things I just feel my way along

Those altitudes are just rule-of-thumb...  Basically you don't want to get too deep into your landing burn before jettisoning, because your t/w ratio typically takes a huge hit and it's hard for any kind of pilot to recover from that when you're down low.   Some designs, after extensive testing and experience, I jettison much lower knowing that MJ can recover.