Kerbal Instrument Panel: In-Desk Apollo Themed Hardware Controller

[The Barryfish]

Very much like the Princess Bride, it's "barely alive"  
The LCD display fits without breaking out into the counterbores of the front casting. (very barely)

There are a lot of revisions of the DSKY and display, all with subtle differences.   
Shown here and in the above post the bezel part of the older revision is smaller than the newer ones.   The (larger) flown display bezel covers part of the 6 mounting screws and likely requires a hex-ball driver to get it in.

I really don't have a clue what I'm doing.   And the internet does not help.

 

[richfiles]

I have a metal sheet with an alodine coating (not quite the same as anodizing).
I was gonna just mill out the openings for my "DSKY" indicators and readouts, and use that...
It's so much more basic than the route you're going. That's actually really nice work! 

You really ought to consider starting a dedicated thread for your own build!

It almost makes me wanna try 3D printing some manner of bezel and then painting it.
Honestly though, I'd still be more inclined to mill a chunk of aluminum if I went that route...
It'd be little difference than milling the alodined steel plate I had planned on using anyway.
Whatever I do though, It can't be excessively thick, as my board wasn't designed with a lot of supported depth in mind.

One small update... I'm applying for a new job. If I get it, the pay raise will be substantial.
If all goes well, and I get it, I might make another go at trying to get in touch with  Concord Aerospace on their switches.

Lost touch with them in the middle of the 2020 mess, hopefully that doesn't happen this time... 

Edited November 23, 2022 by richfiles

[richfiles]

And I got the job!!! Very excited to soon have a steady income again.
The positive, is it should no longer be an issue to acquire parts.
I do have less time available, sadly, but that's always the unfortunate trade off.
On a positive note, I barely watch TV anymore, so there's less hours wasted on that!

I also know for a fact (cause I've seen them in stock, with my own physical eyes), that a local farm implement dealer has two styles of tab lever type toggle switches, on hand, with either red or green plastic tab lever handles. I'll probably buy out their stock, and either paint them grey, or try to get the Concord switches and leave these colored for some special function. CNHI (Case New Holland Industrial) Is a manufacturer of agricultural machinery... tractors, harvesters, construction equipment, etc. If you see a red tractor or a blue tractor out in a field... good chance it's by this company. My dad was picking up parts and I tagged along that day. I sifted though all their switches in their parts drawers and found these. 1301521C1 is the red handled tab lever toggle switch, and 1301522C1 is the green handled tab lever toggle switch. These ARE still stupidly expensive, with one costing $30 a switch, and the other being $60. I don't know if it's an in production part, or NOS either, but it's a fallback if I fail to get the Concord switches in bulk. With real income back in play, I might even just inquire as to the cost of getting maybe 3 or 4 five switch gang panels, pre-made from them. I'm hoping any issues I had failing to get in touch just stemmed from lack of resources during lockdowns. Hopefully everything is going okay on their end now.

Regardless, I at least have a fallback to rely on, if an expensive one...

Edited November 1, 2023 by richfiles

[Nazalassa]

3 minutes ago, richfiles said:

And I got the job!!!

Congrats!

[richfiles]

I bought the switches! Good Lord, these were terribly expensive, but I'll reserve the colored tab lever toggles for things like toggling my DC and AC busses on and off, for powering things like the meters and the FDAI. I've actually been in touch with Concord Aerospace for sourcing some NASA style replica switches for the rest of the panel. I just kinda wanted these cause they were from the Tractor & Implement dealer where I live...

They also had a locking toggle... It looked JUST like a NASA one... And cost the same too! Three digit price tag! Yikes... I passed at that price.

Edited November 1, 2023 by richfiles

[AtomicTech]

1 hour ago, richfiles said:

I bought the switches! Good Lord, these were terribly expensive, but I'll reserve the colored tab lever toggles for things like toggling my DC and AC busses on and off, for powering things like the meters and the FDAI. I'v3 actually been in touch with Concord Aerospace for sourcing some NASA style replica switches for the rest of the panel. I just kinda wanted these cause they were from the Tractor & Implement dealer where I live...

They also had a locking toggle... It looked JUST like a NASA one... And cost the same too! Three digit price tag! Yikes... I passed at that price.

Is this going to work for KSP 2?

[richfiles]

That all depends if KSP 2 is as mod friendly as KSP is... Assuming the developer of the KSPSerialIO mod makes a KSP 2 version, and the data packet format remains the same, then I see no reason it shouldn't... I'm less trusting of Take Two. They have an abominable track record with handling mods. I have zero reservations with sticking to KSP if KSP 2's mod scene is whack.

[The Barryfish]

Can you read the original mfg name?   Like C&H ?
Maybe a part number?
I'm building a DCS simpit and would like to find some "wedge handle" toggles (for cheap)

 

[The Barryfish]

Ha! I  found the 13AT401-T2 at Allied  $615.25 (USD)

[richfiles]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:06 AM, richfiles said:

CNHI (Case New Holland Industrial) Is a manufacturer of agricultural machinery... tractors, harvesters, construction equipment, etc. If you see a red tractor or a blue tractor out in a field... good chance it's by this company. My dad was picking up parts and I tagged along that day. I sifted though all their switches in their parts drawers and found these. 1301521C1 is the red handled tab lever toggle switch, and 1301522C1 is the green handled tab lever toggle switch. These ARE still stupidly expensive, with one costing $30 a switch, and the other being $60

 

On 12/28/2022 at 1:24 PM, The Barryfish said:

Can you read the original mfg name?   Like C&H ?
Maybe a part number?
I'm building a DCS simpit and would like to find some "wedge handle" toggles (for cheap)

 

It's all shared above. Got these from a Case Tractor dealership. CNHI parts should be more or less available from any Case, New Holland, or International dealer. The switches are expensive, but not Honeywell expensive... One was just below $40 and the other was just under $60. Most of these dealerships can get parts from another if they dont have it.

Alternatively, look for Concord Aerospace (they have an ebay presence) they produce NASA replica switches for cheaper than these. I just wanted to use a couple of them cause local source.

[richfiles]

Oh boy... They're multiplying, much like the DAC circuits that will control them! 

After putting YEARS into this project, I wanted the comfort of a spare... Last thing I want is to find the efforts of over half a decade go to waste cause the thing I bought in 2015 turned out to be busted. I have no way of testing any of this until I finish my synchro emulators. Having two simply offers me a safety margin.

Biggest problem, these days, is free time. That's the deadly triangle of time and money vs labor... I can either have plenty of time, but no money, or no money, but plenty of time. Truth is, I'm terrible with time management. Heh... I need to spend less time wasting time, and make more efficient use of it. Had a whole weekend free, but blew it. I need to pick tasks and commit to those tasks.

I need to finish building my main computer, I need to replace the chair in my living room, I need to finish my workshop computer, and I need to get back to work on the instrument panel.

[richfiles]

Dropping a notice to anyone following this thread... There is a Three Axis ADI up right now for anyone interested in acquiring one. I am not planning to go for number three, so have at it! 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354629327806 

Edited April 6, 2023 by richfiles
Looks like it's no longer available.

[Rokreder]

I lucked out and was able to grab one for cheap off eBay 2 weeks ago, along with a matching horisontal situation indicator. I believe them to be from an F-111 Aardvark, though it is not a 100% exact match. 

Crucially, THE PINOUT IS DIFFERENT

As it was missing the amplifier backpack, I cracked it open and started reverse engineering. And I quickly realised that it didn't match the ARU-11/A pinout description I had found on the web here.

For example, the page lists A and B as 115V 400Hz supply, but in my unit, these pins connect to the glideslope indicator... which was missing, maybe because the previous owner applied 115V?

So just to be safe @richfiles, do a little sanity check before you apply power to your unit(s). A multimeter in diode test mode allows you to move most flags and indicator bars when touching the right pins. If they are connected where your pinout tells you they should be I think you are good.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Rokreder

[richfiles]

It is quite unfortunate that you are missing the electronics package, but I do not believe the pinout on the main unit and the pinout of the connector on the electronics package would, or should be remotely similar. I'd try and reverse engineer my unit for you, if parts of the electronics package weren't potted in epoxy. Maybe my newer FDAI is different. i haven't opened it's electronics package yet. Not all units would have been equipped with all the same pointers or flags. I saw one listed on ebay recently that did not have a glide slope flag. Maybe that was the one you snagged? I dunno. The one you got could also be a different model... If it was the one I posted a short while ago, that's an ARU 51/A. It might simply have a different pinout than an ARU 11/A

Controlling it without an electronics package could be interesting. It might be harder, might be easier. I dunno. I just always planned on using the amplifier unit on mine. You should have raw access to the servos and synchros inside it. not sure what control method is being used with the servos... they could be synchros themselves even. If they happen to be synchros, then it might be possible to drive them by feeding the rotor with a DC voltage, and feeding the three phases of the stator windings with varying amplitudes of DC values to rotate the effective magnetic field. My only concern is whether the windings can actually handle DC. Might overheat things, so probably better to modulate everything... Might be entirely different if the servos are entirely different than a synchro. If they are different, you'll have to experiment.

Maybe I can take a look at the amplifier package again sometime, but work has me way busy, so it could be months.

Edited April 6, 2023 by richfiles

[Rokreder]

That is a good point on the model number, the dataplate has fallen off so I don't actually know.

I have reverse engineered my unit, and it is exactly as expected based on pictures I found and what you've previously told. This is the setup, repeated once per axis (antenna is where the sphere connects, TX is the synchro board you've been working on):

 

On the main connector we supply 115VAC power and the stator signals S1-3 for each of the axes. (As well as control voltages for flags and 5V for red/white backlight) 

The backpack only contains the amplifiers (triangles in figure), that take the error measured from the control transformers (CT) and drives AC servomotors (ø1 26VAC). The motors also contain tachometers that the amplifier would use to control motor speed.

And that's really all there is too it.* The motors shouldn't be too hard to drive, and since I have raw access to the synchros I think I can simplify/cheat a fair bit. Still very interested in following your progress on the proper way of emulating synchros, as I have other avionics modules where I know that will be required. 

You probably knew a lot of this already, but hopefully this was at least interesting for other people reading the thread 

 

* The adjust knob on the front puzzles me a bit still. Some of the signals go to what appears to be a potentiometer in the sphere, but I do not (yet) dare take it far enough apart to see what's going on

[richfiles]

Nice observations. You should honestly almost have an easier time controlling it than me.
Just drive the servos with an appropriate controller, and read the values back from everything else... Honestly, you can probably manage it all in software.
Me and my obsession with doing it by the book... 

As for current events... I've been working a lot lately (two jobs), but also spending that hard earned cash to get myself set up proper...
I now have the following hardware:

PC: Intel i9-10900K, 64 GB DDR4 RAM, AMD Radeon VII (16 GB HBM2 VRAM), dual 2 TB NVMe drives

Mac: Mac Studio, M1 Max - 10 Core (8p/2e) CPU,  24 Core GPU, 16 Core Neural Engine, 32 GB RAM, 512GB SSD (yuck)...
Dock: 4 TB NVMe, 4 TB SATA 2.5"... (That's much better!)

Monitor: LG 49" 5120x1440 144Hz 32:9 Ultrawide with PbP (Picture by Picture) mode and an integrated KVM.
This will make it possible to display all Mac, all PC, or split the screen and show both together. I can use one keyboard and mouse to control both.
I have one monitor arm, and have a second on order, with plans to do a double arm supported monitor frame... thingy...
I am considering a pair of 3840x1100 miniature 14"ultrawide LCDs to add as portrait oriented "wings" on either side of the big ultrawide. 
I have not yet bought those, and haven't even determined for sure if I even will, but I feel like they'd make a great place for stuff like Discord, etc.
If I DO get them, it would give me a horizontal resolution of 7320 pixels, and that makes me happy! 

Floor: I bought some plywood panels and some laminate flooring. Gonna make simple floor pads for my chair to roll on.
It ends up being cheaper than those plastic office floor pads, and way more durable... Turns out, it's made of FLOOR!!! 

Power: Got a Surge Suppressor and a UPS, so no more computer dying if the Earth swallows my apartment's power transformer a second time!
Honestly, It was dumb that I didn't have one. 

The final development for this post, is I have measured the desk for cutting. I plan to cut the opening for the Instrument panel chassis this week. 
This will mark a huge step forward, progress wise, because I will finally be able to begin mounting hardware where it needs to go.
As a secondary benefit, the PC and the mac will both be right there, meaning I have access to ALL my tools... KiCAD, Arduino IDE, FreeCAD, Everything!
If I need to work on something, there is no reason I simply can't anymore! This will be a powerful step forward toward starting to bring things together.

And yeah... This desk was horrifically dusty and messy. This cleanup was far overdue! 

[richfiles]

Oh boy... It's so BIG!!! 

I honestly had forgotten just how much SPACE this chonker actually takes. 
This thing reaches almost ALL THE WAY to the back of the desk! 

I knew I was gonna be cutting out a good chunk of the desk to fit this...
I had NO IDEA I was gonna cut out HALF of the desk!!!

I am actually reevaluating whether or not I actually want to cut the desk now... 

That is a nice solid chunk of wood, and it's served me well for 22 years... I'd literally be removing 30 inches out of 60...
I'm now wondering if I should simply remove the desktop entirely, and just replace it with two smaller new segments.
I could reframe a new support structure (using 2x4s), and simply install a pair of 15x36 inch panels on either side.
Those will be smaller and far easier to cut to shape.

Honestly, I think that might actually be easier.

There's only about a single 2x4's width left at the rear... I don't think I even need to close it off. 

Pardon the mess... I am in the process of completely tearing down the computer desk and all the junk on it...

It'll only get worse before it gets better... The good news, I have discovered Velcro cable ties!
I'm gonna wrangle that tangle! 

Edited April 23, 2023 by richfiles

[richfiles]

Small update... I bought so much wood... I have no idea why I decided to go with OAK... but I did.
I guess, deep down, I know Oak will be rock solid and look nice, once it's all done.
I'm removing a monolithic slab of pine to replace it with a segmented construct...
I guess I figured I wanted it to have some extra strength, since so much is getting excised.
I also found some nice cheap oak veneer paneling that should make the sides of the desk look far nicer...
Upgrading from that raw plywood utilitarian look to stylish oak veneer wall paneling! Classy! 

Still not sure if I work Memorial Day or not, but if I have the day off, I definitely wanna head to my dad's and use the table saw. 

[richfiles]

Made significant progress over the weekend! Went to my dad's farm and started work on the desk "modifications"... I am practically rebuilding the lower desk from scratch... For one, I am using oak this time. I am also redoing the legs and side skirts... Not looking forward to tearing down the old desk... It must be done though...

The open space on the right side is meant for the mouse. The keyboard tray will be deep enough in this space to fully accomodate the space with the tray pulled out or pushed fully in.

In front of the mouse area, this minature 14" 3840x1100 pixel display will be mounted to the desk as a utility monitor. It supports touch screen, so I can theoretically use it for that too.

Over on the left side, I plan to mount my widescreen monochrome CRT and my small color CRT. For now it will remain a blank wood panel.

The angles were fun to figure out. Most of the design was pulled from direcly out of my head. Only things recorded on paper are a few key measurements, so it works with the existing desk structure. I've gone out of my way to minimize the appearance of screws externally. Keeping everything underneath or inside is making this a very clean build!

It's been 8 years since originally conceiving this, and actually realizing it... I can not believe how fast the time flies.
2022 was a pretty bad year for me, on multiple fronts... I pretty much halted all projects after March that year...
I am so happy to finally see some actual progress once again, and I hope to get back in to active instrument building once all of this is done!
With the desk, the Mac, and a few other things finally dealt with, I can once again do things like design and printing and such...
I can finally do the layout for the annunciator legends, or print out the Vertical Velocity Meter scales...

Honestly, I needed a big project like this one to get me going again! 

Edited June 1, 2023 by richfiles

[richfiles]

 

More progress. Both sides are finished to a similar degree of completion. The lower desktop surface have been cut to shape and are mostly complete. Just an extension for the keyboard cutout area on the keyboard tray, and trimming the extension of the left desktop to line up with the keyboard tray.

The left and right sides really are shaping up to be more like a pair of stand alone endtables, but that design works this way.

The underframe connecting the two halves shouldn't be overly complex, but finding where I can actually run supports and it not interfere with parts of the instrument panel that will dip below table level is also a concern. It will all be figured out in the end though. Working the design out in my head, as I go has the benefit of flexibility, but lacks in foresight and speed. Those side panels could have been done as a solid piece, for example, by routing slots... Oh well. Sandwitched layers it is then. It'll still work just fine.

The front of the front legs is also cut. The center beam and rear trim are straight cuts, so no big deal. I already have them measured out, so they'll go together in no time

[richfiles]

Kouston, the front legs have landed! 

Only part missing is a brace that I still need to cut, that will mount on top of the footing, to give it additional strength. The wide board and rear trim still need to be screwed together. They will be flush on the inside, and the depth if the wide board will be part of the design, visible from the outside. The brace will sit at a slight angle, and allign with the rear trim at the tip of the leg.

With the exception of the inside trim, all the screws are once again hidden behind or inside the structure. The reason for easy to access side panels there is I plan to mount electrical outlets on the front legs.

Had to mount the trim to a block under the keyboard tray. Trimmed things for the closest possible fit.

The right leg being worked on.

Top view of the left desk segment and leg. Once everything is done, I'll sand the corner round and take the edge off the side trim.

The main back legs are cut and ready for assembly as well. The third rear leg will be rather simple. After that, I can focus on the cross frame, which will join the twin desk halves and support the actual Kerbal Instrument Panel itself.

[richfiles]

Here, I install the front-facing rear beam trim into place. Most of the screws are through the trim, directly into the other structural components for best strength.

No pocket screws on this one... Like I said, straight on through to the other side. The side panel is held into place by slots that I cut into the sides of the surrounding wood pieces. The panel just slides in and I screw in the rear beam trim to lock it into place.

Had to sit it upside-down to work on this, but it worked out nicely.

Pocket screws were used to mount the main beam to the trim. I also made sure the additional weight hanging over the end of my work surface was well supported.

Lookin' mighty fine propped up...

This small square panel was originally going to cover the whole side based on the original desk's design, but the benefit of building off the tip of your head, is the design can evolve on the fly. The material turned out to be very porous, and really sucked in the stain. I was not quite happy with how dark it ended up.

What I do like, is it being a differently shaded accent piece. The stain on the rear beam still ended up darker and browner than I would have preferred (I was going for a lighter, more reddish hue)... I've decided I am okay with "speed stripes"... I will find an even lighter yet stain for the majority of the desk, and let the beam and panels act as dark accents. I will also use the darker stain underneath, to help mask the underside of the desk.

Let's get the third leg mounted... And feet. I used a little extra wood to make simple, but very securely mounted feet. I mimicked the side and cut slots intonthe leg and surrounding trim, and installed another panel segment.

This here as the heart of this desk build. This angled board will be the cross-frame support. Note that it is insanely supported... It is pocket screwed on 3 sides and then further braced by a pair of bracing boards that are straight screwed into primary support structure. When I construct the cross frame, I will mount it to this. I will drill out bolt holes in appropriate places, and then install self mounting nuts to those holes.

And with that, the right desk module is practically complete, structurally. I still have to mount the top shelf support, but it's already made, and is just a handful of screws. It'll cover the pocket screws holes at the tip of the beam. It will be one of the areas where I use "buttons" to cover the screw holes.

Filling the rear space with a narrow panel seemed like the right away to go. I like it anyway. I'm a bit more tolerant of exposed screws on the rear, and the three exposed are there for strength. That leg will help to support the cross-frame.

And here we have it! Right side all but done! I know I'm glossing over staining, and the shelf support, but this is it! It's happening! 

Even better news, is most of the pieces for the left side are already cut. Mostly just need to drill the pocket holes and assemble, so it should go together even faster!

After that, the cross-frame and instrument panel mounts get figured out!

Edited June 23, 2023 by richfiles

[richfiles]

LOL... I forgot, I didnt like how dark the extremely porous panels were, so I was considering sanding them and staining them a lighter color, leaving the grooves dark. I'll experiment with some of the scraps and see how I like that.

This is the way! 

Edited June 21, 2023 by richfiles
Experiment success!

[richfiles]

I was on a huge streak, and worked later than any other night, but made crazy progress!

This will look so incredible once the instrument panel is installed! I'm just blown away by the one day progress!

Again, the light stain was the only correct choice. It just looks so good! Knowing where the pocket holes needed to be, and knowing how it all needed to go together absolutely streamlined things!

The sanding though... Even with an electric sander though... Yikes! It was a lot of effort to get deep enough to expose the bare wood again... Well worth the effort though! 

Just gotta finish the third leg + crossframe anchor, and the left side will be nearly done!

[richfiles]

It's beginning to actually look like a desk! 

The third leg, rear panel, and cross-frame support have all been installed on the left side, and you can see all the support structure bracing the support.

The left and right desk segments are effectively complete now, and can each stand entirely independently. All that remains is mounting the supports for the top shelf, drilling holes for the cross-frame to bolt to, and staining.

Sanding and re-staining the panels was so worth the effort! I like how it turned out!

It's all coming together! 

I laid two planks across the the cross frame supports, and set the console in place to see how it would all look. I must say, I am absolutely excited at the prospect of finishing this desk upgrade soon!

Part of me wishes I had plans for this desk on paper... Would have made building it go much faster, but then again, the design has evolved as I went along with the build, and that might not have happened had I not built it on the fly the way I did... I know already, that it is much improved over some of my original panel ideas.

Edited June 26, 2023 by richfiles