[UNOFFICIAL/FANMADE] 0.17 Discussion thread

[ilikemoneygreen]

Hey, finally, a way to delete ships while in game.

I'm guessing planets are classified as a 'small' update because there is relatively little code that needs to be added?

i think the code for planets are already in the game, they just need to make more planets which im sure is just a software program that generates them... with custom input parameters of course. i would think little "coding" would be involved, but a lot of the modeling program would be. Thats where all the time probably is in.

Thats just a guess of course. im sure a little coding would be required but not like millions of lines of custom code.

[Viper_607]

I'm actually sure that 0.17 will break it. Changes to the fuel flow system, the renaming of parts added in 0.16, New SOI's from the other planets, changes to the game killing the kraken, the improved save/load system.

it'll also add new pre-built crafts and have a different folder for unofficial craft. There's also the code for IVA's that may affect existing save profiles because of lack of information in them, etc.

It's my honest opinion that 0.17 will have your crafts removed and your entire save removed, alas, that's how it is when a game is in alpha.

[ilikemoneygreen]

I'm actually sure that 0.17 will break it. Changes to the fuel flow system, the renaming of parts added in 0.16, New SOI's from the other planets, changes to the game killing the kraken, the improved save/load system.

it'll also add new pre-built crafts and have a different folder for unofficial craft. There's also the code for IVA's that may affect existing save profiles because of lack of information in them, etc.

It's my honest opinion that 0.17 will have your crafts removed and your entire save removed, alas, that's how it is when a game is in alpha.

To me its not a big deal either way. the amount of game saves in 0.16 is little. most of my saves are from 0.15.

[Banbite]

It wouldn't be nice of them to erase all of the craft files when some people are building interplanetary ships to be ready for 0.17. Hopefully the part remake won't impact the craft/save files the same way as 0.16 did with it's new command modules and new engine stats, but the new planets might screw up the save files maybe.

[Seanoog]

I'm actually sure that 0.17 will break it. Changes to the fuel flow system, the renaming of parts added in 0.16, New SOI's from the other planets, changes to the game killing the kraken, the improved save/load system.

it'll also add new pre-built crafts and have a different folder for unofficial craft. There's also the code for IVA's that may affect existing save profiles because of lack of information in them, etc.

It's my honest opinion that 0.17 will have your crafts removed and your entire save removed, alas, that's how it is when a game is in alpha.

Never considered most of those points.

An when you look at it that way it likely will break compatibility.

Not complaining, since its an Alpha game, Devs are welcome to change any thing they see fit imo.

I am used to starting fresh every time.

As a Volunter Test Subject, it required to start fresh with each X Builds, to guarantee proper testing.

[Paprika]

Probibly wont break them.

But its always best to start with a fresh install, fresh persistance file an new craft files, built from your known designs...

Guarantees no bugs been carried over, an weird craft performance.

After all alot of parts are expected to get rebalanced with. 17.

Cool, Thanks. I shall bear that in mind! I'll have to rescue my manned satellites before updating to avoid anyone being trapped in limbo!

Edit: Should have read all the responses before replying. Definitely will be mounting rescue missions nearer the time, you all make good points about the craft removal. I'm not complaining either, I make a new ship for every mission pretty much so I'm no stranger to starting from scratch!

Edited August 9, 2012 by Paprika
Pre-emptive replying makes me look foolish

[swiftgates24]

I'm guessing the parts they added in .16 will be broken because they're editing their description and the parts were using won't have that same description. So the game decides to say you do not have that part in your KSP folder :/

[moldevort]

I'm guessing the parts they added in .16 will be broken because they're editing their description and the parts were using won't have that same description. So the game decides to say you do not have that part in your KSP folder :/

I agree with you, this is probably what's going to happen.

[EleSigma]

I wonder what Nova is up to right now? (game development wise, not irl of course )

[Shadownailshot]

Yeah, that link doesn't actually say that:

"Yes, in theory, moons can have moons. The region of space around a satellite there a sub-satellite can exist is called the Hill sphere. Outside the Hill sphere, a sub-satellite would be lost from its orbit about the satellite." (exerpt)

"Yes, the Moon could have a sub-satellite. If we look at a system of the Earth, Moon, and a sub-satellite, the same idea as above applies. The Moon has its own Hill sphere with a radius of 60,000 km (1/6th of the distance between the Earth and Moon) where a sub-satellite could exist." [EDITED]

"...tidal effects require thousands or millions or more years, depending on the system, to cause the loss of a sub-satellite."

So in a sense you are right, however the same rules apply to any orbiting body (given enough time, Kerbin should should de-orbit). Even then, a moon orbiting a large moon within the program would not de-orbit for months or even several years of continuous running at 100000x (which I believe is rails, and hence would not de-orbit anyway).

It seems realistic to me to allow at least large moons that are sufficiently far from their parent bodies to have their own "natural" satellites in the game.

@Shadownailshot

I talked about this very subject extensively back when I first got on the forums, and basically even the best ways to allow for ships to have their own SOI would not be practical, in the opinions of most people who know more than I do about these subjects with relation to the game. Even if your largest, most massive, rockets had SOI, the attractive force would be so low that a single burst of rcs from a single thruster would de-orbit any satellite of the rocket. Even a 500 meter asteroid would be extremely difficult to orbit (though not impossible).

There was a part "gravity" plugin that was working in .14.4. I haven't tried to use it in .16 at all, but it may still work.

I don't want them to have SOI. Just maybe a thing on the conics patch that warns you when you'll be within some nominal distance of the other ship. like 30km? Make rendezvous much easier.

[Ghery88]

I wonder what Nova is up to right now? (game development wise, not irl of course )

Why? He might be even developing!

[Viper_607]

Nova is probably lurking or doing something that Nova usually does, Frankly, what he's doing right now is his business, and I don't feel like becoming a stalker <.<

[dragonfree97]

I hope the gas giant has more than 1 moon. It needs to have, in my opinion, about 4 or 5 large ones (anything bigger than Minmus) and maybe 10 smaller ones (Minmus or less in size)

[LukeTim]

If it really is a gas giant, it could have a moon the size of Kerbin, right?

[Tigga]

Really looking forward to new planets. I'm rather hoping we have some way of transferring fuel in orbit so that my interplanetary craft with landers don't have to be giant. I've been experimenting a bit and doing an orbital transfer, landing on a reasonably sized body, and then getting home is going to take a lot of fuel. I guess another option is a way to add empty (or rather, not full) capsules, which should allow us to send two craft then EVA across so we don't have to return the lander to get our little green men back home.

I've also been practising some Mun slingshots - can save quite a bit of fuel if you get it right which is going to be quite useful. Trying to work out if there's a reliable way to get a double slingshot.

i think the code for planets are already in the game, they just need to make more planets which im sure is just a software program that generates them... with custom input parameters of course. i would think little "coding" would be involved, but a lot of the modeling program would be. Thats where all the time probably is in.

Thats just a guess of course. im sure a little coding would be required but not like millions of lines of custom code.

Pretty sure I read that an back-end change would be needed to allow them to add new planets. It's often the way with game dev in my experience. First you get something that works without worrying hugely about making it generic, then you make it generic so you can extend it. This is much more so if you're going to be releasing early "test" versions.

Hopefully old craft files will be compatible - I've just got my SSTO spaceplane working! I guess it won't take too long to manually transfer it.

[EleSigma]

Nova is probably lurking or doing something that Nova usually does, Frankly, what he's doing right now is his business, and I don't feel like becoming a stalker <.<

Not like that! with 0.17, not his personal life! XD

[Seanoog]

The KSP inspired universe is a anologue of our own Sol system.

So in theory a gas giant in Kerbal universe, could/should have a moon the same size or larger than Kerbin, just like out sol system.

What would be cool, if that moon orbiting the gas giant, had an atmosphere, an was simular to Kerbin, Green grass, blue oceans, snow covered poles...

[Shadownailshot]

I'm trying to get slingshots down as well. It's easier in concept than it is in practice, but I've done it. Haven't found the most efficient method yet. But I have a ship that can increase it's aphelion to twice kerbin's orbit altitude. I haven't tested it's return capability yet. But it should be able to with no issues. It would be good for a one way trip to orbit another planet.

[dragonfree97]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the Mars-like planet will be called Egar.

[Master]

If craft the save files transfer over I might try seeding my system with craft and see if any of them get picked up by the other planet's gravity when they pop into existence. that could be a nice challenge.

See who can get into a stable orbit (to a new planet) with a probe launched from kerbin using no fuel or RCS once it leaves the gravitational sphere of Kerbin.

I think if you launched a bunch of command modules and detached them so no other parts were attached after they left the GS of kerbin then went into your persistence parts file and deleted everything but those CMs it might transfer the save. Unless the format differs for even the CMs.

[MrMoog]

While .craft file could still work in 0.17, history have shown that it's safer to assume that the next version will break save files compatibility.

[Fox967]

Oh, man. I was so excited for 0.16, i thought i couldn't possibly feel any more excitement. But i was wrong! 0.17 will be AWESOME and MIND-BLOWING.

[dragonfree97]

You know what would be interesting, if incredibly implausible? A setting in the options to launch in the solar system as opposed to the Kerbol system, all moons, asteroids, planets, etc. intact, scaled down of course.

[dav1d89]

That wouldn't surprise me if it comes in at a later date

[jonny360]

Has there been any discussion of more optimization for KSP in .17? Something i've noticed is with the new parts i've started dealing with larger fuel numbers and larger ships. It seems that full fill tanks REALLY slow the performance of KSP. While a normal ship from .16 seems to perform much better in .17. The larger ships seem to give even slower FPS performance. I'm wondering how the new moons and all will effect this. I really hope to see a lot of optimization. I'm finding playing the game is becoming more difficult for me when the performance is so cruddy.

PS. I've spoken to a few with gaming pc rigs who have mentioned significant slowdowns as well. I however am on a macbook pro which im aware is far from a gaming rig. But still if gaming pcs are having slowdowns its just me. My love of ksp runs deep enough that i'd considered building a rig just to play it. But after hearing others inputs i dont think id be happy with the performance gains.