Windows 10 problems

[KerikBalm]

So I've been trying to add and remove mods to try and diagnose a problem (IR telescope asteroid mapping not working)... and I started running into the problem that windows 10 is not letting me more or delete many folders inside my KSP directory.... I can generally move the contents of the folder with no options... so I was temporarily doing a workaround of making a desktop folder, moving contents of a folder to the desktop folder, then moving the contents of that folder to the desktop folder... only to find that I can't move the desktop folder either.

I've don't a lot of googling, and found many people having similar problems going back to at least 2015, but no solution seems to work.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? anyone I can consult about fixing it?

[StrandedonEarth]

I don't have any ideas other than moving towards what I call a "scorched earth" solution, or in this case, "scorched earth lite." You could do a Windows "Refresh" which re-installs Windows without deleting any of your data, but you still need to reinstall your programs. This would be a second-last resort before completely formatting your HDD and reinstalling Windoze from scratch. Hopefully someone has other solutions before it comes to these options.

[sal_vager]

I've seen several reports of this issue, all from Windows users, maybe an update triggered it or there's a common piece of software involved, as a guess I'd suggest the anti-virus as most Windows users have some kind of anti-virus installed, with Avast!, Avira and Avg being popular.

One reason I feel this may be the cause is that the only thing I know of that would cause this is having those files open in another program, while open they are locked from being moved or deleted, when I used to use Windows I used this to unlock files, it should tell you what programs have locked it.

It might be worth testing with other anti-virus programs, and googling anything else you leave running in the background in case it's known to lock other programs while it's running.

[Camacha]

6 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Has anyone else encountered this problem? anyone I can consult about fixing it?

Not being able to move folders is almost always caused by open files, which locks them for other processes. People do not realize that Windows does not actually turn off when they shut down the computer. It is more like hibernation. Therefore, when you 'restart' the computer, files can still be locked by the program that locks them. You need to do an actual shutdown to unlock these files.

You can make a shortcut that forces a full shutdown by following this guide.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Camacha

[KerikBalm]

On 2/26/2017 at 4:44 PM, sal_vager said:

I've seen several reports of this issue, all from Windows users, maybe an update triggered it or there's a common piece of software involved, as a guess I'd suggest the anti-virus as most Windows users have some kind of anti-virus installed, with Avast!, Avira and Avg being popular.

One reason I feel this may be the cause is that the only thing I know of that would cause this is having those files open in another program, while open they are locked from being moved or deleted, when I used to use Windows I used this to unlock files, it should tell you what programs have locked it.

It might be worth testing with other anti-virus programs, and googling anything else you leave running in the background in case it's known to lock other programs while it's running.

Well, I'm still having this really really really stupid problem with windows 10, and that unlocker thing is only for windows 7... its making me want to go back to a mac, because this is utter BS that I can't even move files on my machine easily.

closing and restarting windows explorer doesn't solve it.

The only way to solve it is to manually recreate the folder directories elsewhere, and then empty out each folder. As soon as a folder contains something in it, I cannot move or delete the folder. I can move the contents of the folder at will though.

Changing permissions does not work.

It only happens to some folders, but not others... its utter frustration.

My game wont load after this most recent update, and windows 10 isn't even letting me remove mods to try and diagnose the problem...

[sal_vager]

4 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Well, I'm still having this really really really stupid problem with windows 10, and that unlocker thing is only for windows 7... its making me want to go back to a mac, because this is utter BS that I can't even move files on my machine easily.

closing and restarting windows explorer doesn't solve it.

The only way to solve it is to manually recreate the folder directories elsewhere, and then empty out each folder. As soon as a folder contains something in it, I cannot move or delete the folder. I can move the contents of the folder at will though.

Changing permissions does not work.

It only happens to some folders, but not others... its utter frustration.

My game wont load after this most recent update, and windows 10 isn't even letting me remove mods to try and diagnose the problem...

Okay I found the issue, it's not KSP, it's Windows 10.

You need to enable modifying of permissions for the file/folder.

It's probably doing this as it's in Program Files, you might want to try installing Steam games to another folder in the future.

Hope this helps.

Edited April 8, 2017 by sal_vager

[Guest]

remove windows 10

insert windows 7

 

problem solved forever

[steve_v]

23 minutes ago, Aperture Science said:

remove windows 10

insert windows 7


problem solved forever

Remove Windows

Insert GNU/Linux or BSD (which doesn't lock files like this, and has sensible permission management).


Problem solved forever.

[Green Baron]

Blowing the same horn. Install Linux and all of a sudden you are the master of your computer again. You can actually go where you want, if you want. And you get help for everything at no cost at all, not even your privacy.

Microsoft: "Where do you want to go today ?"

User: "Where you won't let me !"

Especially for KSP, there is no reason to install it on windows ...

 

Peace, love & understanding :-)

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Green Baron

[munlander1]

On February 26, 2017 at 10:44 AM, sal_vager said:

Avast

Wait, is this a legit antivirus program? I know it's unrelated, butt it got on my computer somehow.

[sal_vager]

1 hour ago, munlander1 said:

Wait, is this a legit antivirus program? I know it's unrelated, butt it got on my computer somehow.

Yes, it is a real thing.

[steve_v]

6 hours ago, sal_vager said:

Yes, it is a real thing.

IME the current incarnation of avast (and AVG / most other "free" AV) behaves more like malware than the malware it's supposed to prevent, complete with popup scareware and browser toolbars. Nuke it and get Microsoft Security Essentials. And definately nuke any AV that tampers with SSL in the name of "security".

[KerikBalm]

On 4/8/2017 at 2:27 PM, sal_vager said:

Okay I found the issue, it's not KSP, it's Windows 10.

You need to enable modifying of permissions for the file/folder.

It's probably doing this as it's in Program Files, you might want to try installing Steam games to another folder in the future.

Hope this helps.

I've tried everything to modify permissions ofthe file folder... they won't modify. I've followed all the guides, /checked/unchecked various permisssions, the changes aren't applied.

I just tried to revert from the 1.2.9 prerelease to be able to use mods, and steam cant do it because of file permissions. I can make an entire copy of the game folder... but deleting the old one requires me to manually delete every single sub folder before I can delete a folder... I'm going through, deleting it now so I can reinstall, but it is very very tedious.

 

pics:

Spoiler

Those were after enabling a hidden admin account as described here:

http://www.ghacks.net/2014/11/12/how-to-enable-the-hidden-windows-10-administrator-account/

This is from my default account

I am at a loss here...

Edited April 14, 2017 by KerikBalm

[ZooNamedGames]

I think I found your problem...

Your using Windows 10. Highly advise not doing so.

As to your problem, I've had it happen and the best solution is make doubly sure KSP is closed and then diagnose which file/folder is the problem.

[steve_v]

18 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I am at a loss here...

If it were me, I would be getting pretty pretty angry about now... I hate "I can't let you do that Dave".
If it were me, I'd boot a GNU/Linux LiveCD and delete the files from there. I'd probably delete Windows too... but you seem attached to it.
A liveCD would do the trick though, and I'd not install to "Program Files" again...

[WinkAllKerb'']

well installing take linux take time, i personnaly prefere growing potatoe, but i m failry convinced my own system is full of accarri like my skin ...

but with that my point is failry like snowden ... as i exactly know what many people play, i don't , then if at some point gun happen because hacking ... well hacker should know potatoe feed human and hacking feed gun (insert whatever hat color ...)

Edited April 15, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[sal_vager]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:56 AM, KerikBalm said:

I've tried everything to modify permissions ofthe file folder... they won't modify. I've followed all the guides, /checked/unchecked various permisssions, the changes aren't applied.

I just tried to revert from the 1.2.9 prerelease to be able to use mods, and steam cant do it because of file permissions. I can make an entire copy of the game folder... but deleting the old one requires me to manually delete every single sub folder before I can delete a folder... I'm going through, deleting it now so I can reinstall, but it is very very tedious.

 

pics:

  Hide contents

Those were after enabling a hidden admin account as described here:

http://www.ghacks.net/2014/11/12/how-to-enable-the-hidden-windows-10-administrator-account/

This is from my default account

I am at a loss here...

Popping on for a bit, sorry @KerikBalm but I've not used Windows 10 for gaming so I probably can't help further, but Program Files has always been an issue for file permissions, in the past it was with users putting programs in Program Files because they didn't know better.

This has got to be some new Windows security 'feature', I asked ManeTI and Squad are not setting any permissions, they actually can't except for the Linux zips where all the files are read/write/execute.

So this is something between Windows and Steam, all I can suggest is you reinstall KSP in Steam to a non-protected folder such as C:\Games\

Edited April 15, 2017 by sal_vager

[KerikBalm]

Well, I'm sure its not KSP specific, that's why its in the lounge and not tech support. I have this same issue with other game folders

[Kerbart]

On 4/10/2017 at 5:30 AM, Aperture Science said:

remove windows 10
insert windows 7
problem solved forever

 

On 4/10/2017 at 5:55 AM, steve_v said:

Remove Windows
Insert GNU/Linux or BSD (which doesn't lock files like this, and has sensible permission management).
Problem solved forever.

 

On 4/10/2017 at 6:34 AM, Green Baron said:

Especially for KSP, there is no reason to install it on windows ...

What wonderful, helpful reactions... [/sarcasm]

Downgrading to Windows 7 is a bad idea especially on a new computer (drivers, etc). There's also the limited lifespan of Windows 7 security updates, not to mention the various improvements on the user interface on Windows 10.

“Just install Linux” sounds great. Of course I'd be missing out on about a dozen programs I use professionally, but hey, KSP will run fine. Oh wait, it already runs fine. Why would I do that?  

Newsflash I: not everyone runs just KSP on their computer.

Newsflash II: Windows 10 works just fine. I always wonder why the Linux fanboys claim that it's such a horrible system, because I've never encountered any serious issues on any Windows box. 

@KerikBalm, what are the exact issues you're running into? Are you trying to delete folders from a non-Admin account? Have you tried running Explorer as Admin? KSP runs fine on my WX box and I'm not experiencing any of the issues you describe. That's not helpful to you maybe, but it's an indicator that something is different on your setup; it's not a Windows issue per sé. It sounds more like a rights issue to me.

[steve_v]

43 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

the various improvements on the user interface on Windows 10.

Err, you're not actually serious about that, right? That thing is rear-end-ugly IMO.
Good thing they backpedaled on the whole "tiles" madness... but it's still worse than 7 by far. I loathe this "material design" fad almost as much as the "let's chuck buttons at the screen and see where they stick" fiasco that MS Office turned into.

43 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Newsflash I: not everyone runs just KSP on their computer

FYI, I use my PC(s) (and laptop) for more than just KSP too: CAD, CAM, image editing, audio editing, office stuff when I can't avoid it, and movies, music, games or tinkering in C when I can. I don't have a single Windows install - and I don't find I'm missing anything.

43 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Newsflash II: Windows 10 works just fine. I always wonder why the Linux fanboys claim that it's such a horrible system, because I've never encountered any serious issues on any Windows box.

Lucky you, I certainly have.
Admittedly the most common one is that spinny cursor thing, and it usually goes like this: What's it doing? Come on, a clue? Is it doing anything? Wait, what? I can't do anything else! Why can't I do 5 things at once? This sucks. *watches HDD light intently*, *starts reaching for power button*...
But I've hit weird file permissions issues like this too. And I tend to take the nuclear option...

Sarcastic remarks aside (and closer to on-topic), sure, one could run Exploder (cue '95C flashback) as admin. I'd prefer to just sudo chown -R steve.users ~/Games/KSP
And if it happend that I ran into this on a Windows box, because 'Program Files' has special permissions or Windows thinks something has the file open... I'd boot a GNU/Linux livecd and delete the offending files. Because rm -rf doesn't argue with me.
Strangely enough, that's why I suggested it.

Edited April 15, 2017 by steve_v

[adsii1970]

I reboot Windows 10 in safe mode. At that point, you can mamipulate files normally...

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, sal_vager said:

Squad are not setting any permissions, they actually can't except for the Linux zips where all the files are read/write/execute.

As an extra-off-topic note, this is pretty dumb. All files should be r/w, but only executable files should have the executable bit set. Why?

Edited April 15, 2017 by steve_v

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

Err, you're not actually serious about that, right? That thing is rear-end-ugly IMO.

Amateurs care about looks. Pros care about functionality.

Shake-to-focus, enhanced edge-docking, superior multi-monitor support...

Who cares about how it looks. I care about how it behaves. And W10 has a ton of smart features in that respect.

[Ten Key]

3 hours ago, sal_vager said:

Popping on for a bit, sorry @KerikBalm but I've not used Windows 10 for gaming so I probably can't help further, but Program Files has always been an issue for file permissions, in the past it was with users putting programs in Program Files because they didn't know better.

Seconding this. Windows has gotten increasingly protective of anything installed in the "Program Files" folder(s) over the years. . .try reinstalling Steam somewhere else. 

[steve_v]

11 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Amateurs care about looks. Pros care about functionality.

Which is why I use KDE. Trying to operate the UI in any windows feels like driving with one arm tied behind my back.

The Windows 10 UI is to Windows 7 what KDE is to Windows 10.
Next to a properly configurable UI Windows 10 is a toy. KDE (or compiz) had window snapping and proper multi-monitor support (among many others) long before Windows.
And why on earth would I want to shake my PC? My monitor is in perfect focus already.

11 hours ago, Ten Key said:

Windows has gotten increasingly protective of anything installed in the "Program Files" folder(s) over the years.

Indeed, trying to bolt some protection for application binaries onto a nonsense filesystem layout is always going to go well...

Edited April 16, 2017 by steve_v