[1.4.3] MKS Explainer

[Errol]

On 2017-5-23 at 1:30 PM, TauPhraim said:

I gave it some thoughts. But there are a number of missing things in-VAB compared to in-flight (planetary bonuses, surrounding vessels, ground resources concentrations ...) that would both make implementing this a bit bothersome, and render the results not so useful.

I don't agree that the results would not be useful. You could either just give a slider or entry field in a UI for the user to input the missing values, or simply pick some default values for baseline assessment and comparison. It would be very useful to have any extra info while building (some of us have slower machines with a lot of mods, you end up not wanting to wait around all the time to load the flight scene while you are building), even if it doesn't take into account nearby vessels and their bonuses. If a user really wants to estimate those bonuses, they can make a subassembly out of the craft file of the extra vessel in question, and then just bolt it on the top of the vessel you are working on in VAB for a moment to see the numbers.

[Bit Fiddler]

yes it would be nice.  but he did not say it was not useful, just that the use/work ratio was beyond his level of motivation.  which I fully understand I have passed on mod ownership to other in the past as I just could not be bothered to maintain them any more.   or  I have had to tell users, "do not make any more requests," as I will not be adding any new features etc.  so while I wish it was done, I can fully respect his decision to not make it so.

 

for that matter if the use/work ratio was inline with my motivation quotient, I could make it myself.   so ya, I never begrudge a mod maker their decision to not add a feature or even continue to maintain the mod.

 

 

[GnarlyVonDudeBro]

Love this mod, MKS is awesome, but a bit daunting, especially without thorough documentation of the multipliers and how they are applied. So, trying it out, I ran into a bit of an issue. I don't know why the numbers don't match up. MKS explainer says my load % should be 989 with the current setup, but it is only 142. Am I missing something, did I forget to activate something, is it a mod conflict? I'm not really sure. Using the 1.3 version, with all of RoverDude's mods from CKAN, and MKS Explainer also from CKAN.

Here's a picture to help:

 

[TauPhraim]

2 hours ago, GnarlyVonDudeBro said:

MKS explainer says my load % should be 989 with the current setup, but it is only 142

A known limitation is that it displays the "ideal" load, that you would get if the converter had room to store it's ouputs, and had enough available inputs.

KSP can further reduce the load, for example if an input resource is not available, but is produced by another slower converter. It might be the case in your example, probably for Mulch: if you don't have any Mulch stored left, and your Kerbals on board cannot generate 448 per day by themselves, this will limit the Agroponics load. If by adding Kerbals, or stopping recyclers, or by storing some Mulch, you can increase the load, that's the explanation.

I would love to fix this problem so that everything is self-explanatory, but it would require very complicated calculations across the whole vessel. Because this is explaining what the stock game does and I cannot see the stock game's source, I am not very comfortable attempting that.

 

[GnarlyVonDudeBro]

Yeah, its gotta be the mulch, only two Kerbals on board. I had some mulch stored to get the process running,  but not much. So two Kerbals can produce 21.6 units of mulch per day (no recyclers) nowhere near the 448 units per day required to run at full capacity. Good to know the calculations take that into account. Also, thanks for the quick reply, and for the awesome mod, too.

[voicey99]

Got something for you to add. Since the addition of MPUs into the mod, there are now parts that have multiple efficiency part slots per part (which add), but MKSE only treats it as it it were a single-slot efficiency part and so does not model the 2.5m and 3.75m MPUs' efficiency part modes correctly.

[TauPhraim]

On 7/6/2017 at 11:45 PM, voicey99 said:

Got something for you to add. Since the addition of MPUs into the mod, there are now parts that have multiple efficiency part slots per part (which add), but MKSE only treats it as it it were a single-slot efficiency part and so does not model the 2.5m and 3.75m MPUs' efficiency part modes correctly.

Could you detail a simple example ? I'm not sure what slots this is about. I can think of a part having several MKSModule, but that would be due to patches, and probably not intended.

Edited July 8, 2017 by TauPhraim

[voicey99]

On 07/07/2017 at 6:26 PM, TauPhraim said:

Could you detail a simple example ? I'm not sure what slots this is about. I can think of a part having several MKSModule, but that would be due to patches, and probably not intended.

For example, if I have a refinery with 3 metals bays, no specialists on board and no kolonisation bonuses, it has 15% efficiency (as predicted). On activating a 2.5m MPU with both bays set to smelter efficiency mode, Explainer predicts the load of the refinery as 20.79%, consistent with one of the two bays being set to efficiency. However, the real load is 26.57% as it does not count the second bay's effect.

[TauPhraim]

17 hours ago, voicey99 said:

For example, if I have a refinery with 3 metals bays, no specialists on board and no kolonisation bonuses, it has 15% efficiency (as predicted). On activating a 2.5m MPU with both bays set to smelter efficiency mode, Explainer predicts the load of the refinery as 20.79%, consistent with one of the two bays being set to efficiency. However, the real load is 26.57% as it does not count the second bay's effect.

Trying to reproduce, the explainer showed 20.79% indeed, but the stock game kept showing me 15.23% for some reason I cannot understand (and 15.12% with just one smelter bay, and strange things like 16.6% when warping etc).

Anyway, I just released a new version of the explainer that shows 26.57 in this case. If your game behaves better than mine, that should match now !

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, TauPhraim said:

Trying to reproduce, the explainer showed 20.79% indeed, but the stock game kept showing me 15.23% for some reason I cannot understand (and 15.12% with just one smelter bay, and strange things like 16.6% when warping etc).

Anyway, I just released a new version of the explainer that shows 26.57 in this case. If your game behaves better than mine, that should match now !

I can't test that, because I'm still on 1.2.2. Will probably be updating soon though.

[Murdabenne]

Given some of the back end changes, does this need a rebuild for safety in 1.3.1?

[Jiraiyah]

On 10/30/2017 at 5:46 PM, Murdabenne said:

Given some of the back end changes, does this need a rebuild for safety in 1.3.1?

Umm, I'm sure that now with 1.4.x it would need a rebuild because of newer unity version?

[tseitsei89]

Does this work on 1.4.2 currently?

I'm trying to backtrack some weird load numbers on kolonization modules and this could be useful if it works correctly...

Edited April 12, 2018 by tseitsei89

[juanml82]

On 4/12/2018 at 4:03 AM, tseitsei89 said:

Does this work on 1.4.2 currently?

I'm trying to backtrack some weird load numbers on kolonization modules and this could be useful if it works correctly...

AFAIK, it no longer works in 1.4.3

[TauPhraim]

I just rebuilt it for KSP 1.4.3

Known to be broken: multi-bay calculations (the code has been reworked in MKS and would need to be re-studied).

At a (very superficial) first glance, the rest seemed to work.

 

[Edit]: Actually it was broken for drills, but after studying the new bays code I could fix all this in version 0.9.2 (multiple bays now appear as separate converters, even if configured the same)

Edited June 19, 2018 by TauPhraim

[juanml82]

Is it possible to add a life support calculator? Essentially, what I'd like to know is a summary of recyclers to know how many kerbals are covered by them and which are the ones with the lowest efficiency (I may want to shut them down and replace them, for instance), how many supplies are the kerbals consuming and how many kerbals the base supports without consuming more supplies than it produces. For instance, I have a base at Mun, which was assembled in parts (some locally built) so I can't see the VAB readout. I know there are 12 kerbals in it and it has room for 50. I know it produces more supplies than it consumes and I know (with the alternate resource panel) that it takes 90 days until it fills the available local supply storage. But I don't know how many more kolonists I can send to that base before it begins to consume more supplies than it creates unless I actually ship those kolonists

[Johould]

On 6/18/2018 at 3:15 PM, TauPhraim said:

I just rebuilt it for KSP 1.4.3

Known to be broken: multi-bay calculations (the code has been reworked in MKS and would need to be re-studied).

At a (very superficial) first glance, the rest seemed to work.

 

[Edit]: Actually it was broken for drills, but after studying the new bays code I could fix all this in version 0.9.2 (multiple bays now appear as separate converters, even if configured the same)

Do you expect 0.9.2 to work in 1.4.4, and handle multiple bays?

I'm trying to diagnose an issue where two bays (2xLFO in a 2.5m MPU) only run up to 100% load. It reproduces with only MKS installed, and I just tried adding MKS Explainer to the test game but the explanation pane for the MPU just only a single line:

Quote

Converters: MKS.Processor250

In my 1.3.1 game it agrees with the observed and expected 200% load.

I always use this mod with MKS. Thanks for making it!

[Johould]

I it tracked down to the latest USITools not even trying to set the "bays" bonus. After fixing that the MKS Explainer info seems good.

[TackleMcClean]

This does not appear to work with latest USI mods.
At least not on KSP 1.5.1.

[Jiraiyah]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:14 PM, TackleMcClean said:

This does not appear to work with latest USI mods.
At least not on KSP 1.5.1.

shame, it's a very useful mod, can any one retake this up at least unofficial for 1.6.1?

[N3N]

Hey,

I haven't played KSP for more than 12 months and now I'm trying to update all my favorite mods...

Sorry for the (maybe) dumb question, but is this cool work "abandoned" or just not needed anymore?

[Jiraiyah]

if the original developer is dropping this amazing and useful mod, maybe someone else will take it up and be king rebuild it for 1.8.x

 

honestly, mks is too complex for someone like me who didn't play with it for too long, something like this will help a lot