Green Baron Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Proposals for supersonic jets are in the news every now and then. Maybe two or three companies are even reluctantly working on something, but i think the market is limited and it'll never be a service for the masses if it is much more expensive than a normal flight. But idk, maybe just a marketing gag ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Ben Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) On 25/02/2018 at 5:44 PM, sevenperforce said: Aircraft have engine failure abort modes on landing. It's called "glide". Wing loss and other incidents say "hello". Most craft have some failure mode options. For example, should an engine fail while in orbit, the BFR upper stage will be the most "safe" vehicle ever* with an engine failure... it would orbit safely forever. No wings or gliding needed! Perhaps we can go full Kerbal and have a system that can land fine without any power. Like this: *Even a car in a drive way with a failed engine can get stolen. No chance on an orbiter. Try sneaking up on it! Edited February 26, 2018 by Technical Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Shrinkwrapped Dragon 2 doing recovery tests off the cape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Shrinkwrapped Dragon 2 doing recovery tests off the cape. Im hoping to see more Dragon 2 news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antstar Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 13 hours ago, Technical Ben said: *Even a car in a drive way with a failed engine can get stolen. No chance on an orbiter. Try sneaking up on it! Hmmm. *hatches evil plan* would it be economically feasible to steal satalites and ransom them back to the owner? (You don't have to move it, just wrap it in alfoil till they pay up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannu2 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Antstar said: Hmmm. *hatches evil plan* would it be economically feasible to steal satalites and ransom them back to the owner? (You don't have to move it, just wrap it in alfoil till they pay up) Every superpower states have effective warning systems for ICBM launches. Therefore it is practically impossible to launch secretly rockets to orbit. Every launchpad would get some cruise missiles soon after launch. Such mobility would be quite hard and expensive. Probably it would be more productive to sell honest launch services if you have such resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Holy kraken it's here! https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/02/first-falcon-9-block-5-readying-static-fire-mcgregor-rapid-reuse/ AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 IT'S BEAUTIFUL I've heard that Musk said somewhere that Block 5 would look different... and there are quite a few distinct features on this core. The interstage looks like it's made of some carbon fiber- reminds me of the falcon 1. The logo has been moved up as well. I wonder what it will look like after reuse? Will the "thermal covering" do anything to keep the paint on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Green Baron said: Proposals for supersonic jets are in the news every now and then. Maybe two or three companies are even reluctantly working on something, but i think the market is limited and it'll never be a service for the masses if it is much more expensive than a normal flight. But idk, maybe just a marketing gag ... Which is why the latest attempt to make a supersonic business jet is aimed at sheikhs. https://www.rbc.ru/society/13/11/2017/5a095c0d9a7947768772759a Edited February 27, 2018 by DDE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB666 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, DDE said: Which is why the latest attempt to make a supersonic business jet is aimed at sheikhs. https://www.rbc.ru/society/13/11/2017/5a095c0d9a7947768772759a There is much room for extended runways in the desert. Not so much room in London or Paris, New York or Los Angeles. They can design an aircraft that can haul passengers at Mach 3 (80000 feet ceiling) making any destination on Earth 4 hours away. The problem is that you would need a runway 5 nMiles in length to make it safe to take off and land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, tater said: I was hoping B5 would be completely black, that would've made it alot cooler. Edited February 27, 2018 by NSEP Nvm its in April 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncongruousGoat Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Just now, NSEP said: I was hoping B5 would be completely black, that would've made it alot cooler. When is the launch of B5 then? According to NasaSpaceflight, the first Block 5 launch will be for Bangabandhu-1, which according to r/SpaceX's launch manifest is set to launch March 30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, NSEP said: I was hoping B5 would be completely black, that would've made it alot cooler. Not possible. The interstage is black because it is unpainted carbon fiber; the core is painted aluminum. Ya gotta paint the aluminum but carbon fiber is good on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncongruousGoat Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: Not possible. The interstage is black because it is unpainted carbon fiber; the core is painted aluminum. Ya gotta paint the aluminum but carbon fiber is good on its own. But the core is painted anyways. Is black paint just substantially heavier than white paint, or is it an electrostatic thing, like the side of the SpaceX logo on the side of the booster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, IncongruousGoat said: But the core is painted anyways. Is black paint just substantially heavier than white paint, or is it an electrostatic thing, like the side of the SpaceX logo on the side of the booster? The core is painted white to help keep the subcooled LOX and RP-1 cool. Black paint would cause solar heating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, IncongruousGoat said: According to NasaSpaceflight, the first Block 5 launch will be for Bangabandhu-1, which according to r/SpaceX's launch manifest is set to launch March 30th. I find that launch date completely unbelievable in the best way possible. CRS-14 is supposed to launch on April 2 on the same pad... That would mean that they would achieve like a 3-day turnaround or something! (Or maybe one of these would launch from LC-39A...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman4308 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, IncongruousGoat said: But the core is painted anyways. Is black paint just substantially heavier than white paint, or is it an electrostatic thing, like the side of the SpaceX logo on the side of the booster? Best guess is that white paint absorbs less solar radiation, keeping the LOX just a little bit colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Black paint in sunlight boils of the liquid oxygen and apparently made the rocket interior miserable to work in for maintenance crews, at least on Apollo. Edited February 27, 2018 by RCgothic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Starman4308 said: Best guess is that white paint absorbs less solar radiation, keeping the LOX just a little bit colder. "just a little bit" is understating it. White paint keeps the LOX (and the RP-1, for that matter) MUCH colder than black paint would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) I have ridden in a solid black car with a solid black interior. In August. I can testify that the paint does make a difference... Edited February 27, 2018 by ThatGuyWithALongUsername Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wumpus Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: "just a little bit" is understating it. White paint keeps the LOX (and the RP-1, for that matter) MUCH colder than black paint would. But unpainted orange tanks were preferred for shuttles (although they started out with white paint). It depends on how much you need the mass of that paint. Remember, those orange tanks held LH2 as well as LOX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, wumpus said: But unpainted orange tanks were preferred for shuttles (although they started out with white paint). It depends on how much you need the mass of that paint. Remember, those orange tanks held LH2 as well as LOX. Orange tanks were orange because they were covered in insulation, which kept the contents quite cold regardless of external temperature. SpaceX uses uninsulated aluminum tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, wumpus said: But unpainted orange tanks were preferred for shuttles (although they started out with white paint). It depends on how much you need the mass of that paint. Remember, those orange tanks held LH2 as well as LOX. That probably had more to do with the sheer amount of work and time it took to paint the tanks. Remember, they wanted to fly pretty often (about 14 times per year was the goal). Painting the tanks proved to be a waste of time, since the insulation worked just fine without it and it incurred a small mass penalty. It just wasn't worth doing. The mass penalty was actually very slight and could've been easily overcome by making other modifications to the external tank (this was later done anyways, shaving off tonnes of unnecessary dry mass, compared to the few hundred kilograms of paint). Since the vehicle took this tank almost to orbit, the payload increase was roughly one to one if you could reduce the external tank's dry mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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