Technical Ben Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Hahahahaha. Just got to the episode in Space Brothers where they talk about destructive testing (pushing to the limits) and how the media/top brass don't always understand it. Topical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Technical Ben said: Hahahahaha. Just got to the episode in Space Brothers where they talk about destructive testing (pushing to the limits) and how the media/top brass don't always understand it. Topical. Fortunately, in this case the SpaceX "top brass" DEFINITELY understands it. NASA might not, but they don't really have to- SpaceX kinda seems to be doing their own thing without them with Starship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Industries Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I think it more likely that NASA does understand the value of destructive testing, but also realizes that blowing up multimillion dollar spacecraft doesn't look good to Congress and your average taxpayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Raven Industries said: I think it more likely that NASA does understand the value of destructive testing, but also realizes that blowing up multimillion dollar spacecraft doesn't look good to Congress and your average taxpayer. Destructive "testing" is how the Shuttle went from a 1:9 chance of a LOV/LOC event (early flights) to the 1:90 it had at the end of its run. Sadly it involved the death of 14 people. Better to test vehicles without crew on them. Edited October 23, 2019 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, ThatGuyWithALongUsername said: Fortunately, in this case the SpaceX "top brass" DEFINITELY understands it. NASA might not, but they don't really have to- SpaceX kinda seems to be doing their own thing without them with Starship. I suggest naming Mk1 "Fireworks", Mk2 "Entropy", Mk3 "Roasted marshmellow" and Mk4 "A lack of payload". 11 minutes ago, Raven Industries said: I think it more likely that NASA does understand the value of destructive testing, but also realizes that blowing up multimillion dollar spacecraft doesn't look good to Congress and your average taxpayer. Someone give each Congress member a copy of KSP so they learn how explosions make rockets fly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, Xd the great said: Someone give each Congress member a copy of KSP so they learn how explosions make rockets fly better. Spoiler That would require each member of Congress to learn how to use a mouse and perform basic math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 eat your heart out, SLS... Also, BREAKING NEWS! This just in! Totally serious. Not satirical at all, no sir. Heard it straight from ol’ Jimmy’s mouth, so he did... And while I’m at it.... C’mom, guys, just launch something already! I don’t care if it’s the new intern out of a giant potato gun, let’s see something fly, dangit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncongruousGoat Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said: How do you have a catastrophic launch failure because of a fairing? By having it jettison prematurely at T+45 seconds into flight, destroying the payload, upper stage, and booster from aerodynamic forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: eat your heart out, SLS... This timeline actually suggests (to me at least) that they're sticking to their original Mars timeline. Think about it- the 2022 landing can test all the fancy cargo deployment things to make sure it all works and then send that same equipment to Mars later that year (of course, there's no CO2 so they can only test fuel depot deployment on the moon, but they can test fuel depot systems on Earth separate from testing their deployment). Next, they work on the crewed version a lot, with 2 years to mature it. They can then test the surface habs and landing with crew on the moon in 2024... all the systems they need before they launch to Mars later that year. If something goes wrong with the cargo and crew to the moon, it's easier to recover and safer for the crew to abort. They might even be able to repeat the mission before sending it to Mars if it just needs a simple fix, and if not then they can catch the problem in time and move the Mars timeline 1 window back. Edited October 23, 2019 by ThatGuyWithALongUsername Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The fuel production plant will not be easy or fast to develop. The easy part is designing one that can produce enough fuel, the hard part is building it light enough to fit in a starship while still being able to resist martian conditions, the VERY hard part is making it deploy itself, maintain itself and mine waterice on its own. Thats not a job SpaceX can do with a few guys in a few years. Elon Musk has lots of fitting companys for this task, but just imagine what kind of technological jump you are going to need to have robots build a solar power plant without external input on earth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_name Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 17 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said: How do you have a catastrophic launch failure because of a fairing? what the others said, or a launch failing to reach orbit, or unable to deploy the spacecraft because the faring was not jettisoned (OCO, glory, IRNSS-1H, and one of the gemini target vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, insert_name said: what the others said, or a launch failing to reach orbit, or unable to deploy the spacecraft because the faring was not jettisoned (OCO, glory, IRNSS-1H, and one of the gemini target vehicles I was aware of the pslv and agena failures but those were not failures to reach orbit. I was more referring to how a fairing could cause the rocket to catastrophically fail during early ascent. Thanks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Elthy said: That's not a job SpaceX can do with a few guys in a few years. Elon Musk has lots of fitting companies for this task, but just imagine what kind of technological jump you are going to need to have robots build a solar power plant without external input on earth... My expertise in using Breaking Ground robotic parts to build self-expanding structures may come in handy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, Xd the great said: My expertise in using Breaking Ground robotic parts to build self-expanding structures may come in handy... You're hired!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 10 hours ago, sevenperforce said: Hide contents That would require each member of Congress to learn how to use a mouse and perform basic math. I think this may become my most-liked post........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Elthy said: The fuel production plant will not be easy or fast to develop. The easy part is designing one that can produce enough fuel, the hard part is building it light enough to fit in a starship while still being able to resist martian conditions, the VERY hard part is making it deploy itself, maintain itself and mine waterice on its own. Thats not a job SpaceX can do with a few guys in a few years. Elon Musk has lots of fitting companys for this task, but just imagine what kind of technological jump you are going to need to have robots build a solar power plant without external input on earth... Maybe the first ones wouldn't do it entirely on their own. The very first humans might have to build their return journey...a little morbid, but it might be one of the things Elon meant by "There's a good chance you'll die". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 hours ago, cubinator said: Maybe the first ones wouldn't do it entirely on their own. The very first humans might have to build their return journey...a little morbid, but it might be one of the things Elon meant by "There's a good chance you'll die". Cosmic/solar radiation, life support breakdown, decompression, farm failure... so many ways to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) There was that outfit that claimed to be recruiting volunteers for a one-way trip to Mars. IIRC, they ended up being pretty much just a scam and are now bankrupt. Edited October 24, 2019 by mikegarrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: There was that outfit that claimed to be recruiting volunteers for a one-way trip to Mars. IIRC, they ended up being pretty much just a scam and are now bankrupt. And yet, they proved the existence of people who would accept that kind of offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Rakaydos said: And yet, they proved the existence of people who would accept that kind of offer. Me. Also, Jeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 13 hours ago, sevenperforce said: I think this may become my most-liked post........... We were all thinking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 15 hours ago, Elthy said: The fuel production plant will not be easy or fast to develop. The easy part is designing one that can produce enough fuel, the hard part is building it light enough to fit in a starship while still being able to resist martian conditions, the VERY hard part is making it deploy itself, maintain itself and mine waterice on its own. Thats not a job SpaceX can do with a few guys in a few years. Elon Musk has lots of fitting companys for this task, but just imagine what kind of technological jump you are going to need to have robots build a solar power plant without external input on earth... Yes, getting CO2 is easy enough, its an machine who can stay inside an cargo starship. Solar panels is harder Guess they use an serie of rovers with fold out solar panels who drive a bit away from the cargo starship and deploy while still tethered with an cable. drilling for water is more challenging. You need an fully automated drilling rig capable of finding ice and drill down to it. then clean the water and transfer to starship. You will need to land the manned starship some distance from the cargo ship with ISRU and solar panels so you need an tank truck to move fuel and oxidizer. You also need to keep methane and LOX from boiling off while you produce it. Mars is cold that not that cold, this is also an issue if you wait until you have filled the cargo ship before leaving for mars with humans. You also need to be sure the tank truck work. perhaps send two, and make sure they can be towed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, magnemoe said: You also need to keep methane and LOX from boiling off while you produce it. Mars is cold that not that cold, this is also an issue if you wait until you have filled the cargo ship before leaving for mars with humans. All things being equal, this is the easy part. If you are producing the liquid methane and LOX, you have the capacity to condense, so you have the capacity to re-condense boil-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Industries Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I'd like to see a NASA-SpaceX partnership happen if we get closer to actually being able to go to Mars. SpaceX might be able to run an entire Mars mission by themselves, but I'd like it if they had some folks with more experience at the whole "keep humans alive for more than a few days" working on the habitat and life support systems you'll need for a colony, or even just a base for waiting for a transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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