Revision on launch clamps

[lttito]

I think it would be cool if SQUAD makes a revision on launch clamps. At least change them a little bit so the lenght of the arm could be adjustable the same way as the height. Also different models would also be nice.

I just checked the wiki and they were introduced on 0.16, and as far as I remeber, they havent had any changes. They work just fine, but it would be nice if SQUAD gives them some love. It is a part that everyone uses constantly and I think it would be neat to improve it a little bit.

Edited May 2, 2017 by lttito

[ZooNamedGames]

I'm for extending the arms. What I'd prefer instead of new models, is a variant for loading and unloading crew (ie), white room. 

[Gaarst]

#bringbackthelaunchtower

[Alshain]

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:18 PM, Gaarst said:

#bringbackthelaunchtower

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#never!

Extending the arms would be nice though.

[swjr-swis]

Yes to extending arms: first click attaches them to the craft and goes into 'extension mode', second click to decide how far out the base goes; the arm can be procedurally generated. Oh, one can dream...

Yes on the crew loader too, preferably with a door/hatch on ground level. I wouldn't even mind if all it was is an integrated ladder running up the inside of the clamp 'tower'... they're hollow structures anyway.

(And yes on the launchtower! Make it be on huge tracks and adapt to the width of the craft on the pad. It doesn't even need to be animated, just spawn at the right distance with the craft (the Engineer's Report knows how 'wide' a craft is before the launch, so the information required is there for the using).

Anyway, don't get me started. Insomnia is a bad thing.

[fourfa]

  On 5/3/2017 at 1:40 AM, swjr-swis said:

Yes to extending arms: first click attaches them to the craft and goes into 'extension mode', second click to decide how far out the base goes; the arm can be procedurally generated. Oh, one can dream...

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Procedural Launch Clamps really needs to be a mod.  I have definitely had to resort to rocket-assisted ejecting girders to reach deep into really large lifters before.

[swjr-swis]

  On 5/3/2017 at 2:06 AM, fourfa said:

I have definitely had to resort to rocket-assisted ejecting girders to reach deep into really large lifters before.

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I used to do that. I've since accepted that 'magnetic clamping' is a Real Thing, attach them directly in the lifter and then pull them as far out as the (augmented) offset limits will allow.

[Wjolcz]

I'd like to see something similar to the strongbacks Soyuz and SpaceX Falcon use. The current clamps are okay-ish but tend to get in the way.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=38802.0;attach=1078992;image

Not sure why the second picture doesn't show.

[Red Iron Crown]

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:18 PM, Gaarst said:

#bringbackthelaunchtower

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Please no. I'm still angry at it and it's been gone for years. 

[ZooNamedGames]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:01 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

Please no. I'm still angry at it and it's been gone for years. 

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Which mystifies me; why? Was that badly in the way? Did it limit build size? Even though I came after the tower (in .19), I still rarely have ever needed to make sure a large northernly turn that early in the flight.

If it was build size, then I say that they should have the launchpad extend to accommodate larger builds and therefore, making sure it's never in the way. 

[GluttonyReaper]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:36 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Which mystifies me; why? Was that badly in the way? Did it limit build size? Even though I came after the tower (in .19), I still rarely have ever needed to make sure a large northernly turn that early in the flight.

If it was build size, then I say that they should have the launchpad extend to accommodate larger builds and therefore, making sure it's never in the way. 

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Bear in mind that designs were a lot wider and crazier back then (no aero) and people like me were a lot less experienced, so rockets didn't always go straight up to begin with.

And yeah, it probably could have worked if it adjusted to craft size, but not having it at all seems like the better solution (or have something like FASA launch towers, which are much nicer to use).

[Shadow Wolf56]

I agree, having a look of the rocket from mission control would be awesome!!

[Red Iron Crown]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:36 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Which mystifies me; why? Was that badly in the way? Did it limit build size? 

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No parts bigger than 1.25m so rockets built outwards rather than upwards to a large degree. This was before the Great Stiffening of 0.23.5 too, so everything was wobbly and might not go straight up when launched. So yeah, I lost a lot of rockets to tower collisions even though they looked like they would clear. 

Removing the tower was great for the game, and one of those rare changes that saw near-unanimous approval from the player base. 

[ZooNamedGames]

  On 5/3/2017 at 10:23 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

No parts bigger than 1.25m so rockets built outwards rather than upwards to a large degree. This was before the Great Stiffening of 0.23.5 too, so everything was wobbly and might not go straight up when launched. So yeah, I lost a lot of rockets to tower collisions even though they looked like they would clear. 

Removing the tower was great for the game, and one of those rare changes that saw near-unanimous approval from the player base. 

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Hm. Well I wish there was a way that we could bring it back but remove those issues and prove it to the oldies that it can  exist and not cause problems.

[Alshain]

  On 5/3/2017 at 10:54 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Hm. Well I wish there was a way that we could bring it back but remove those issues and prove it to the oldies that it can  exist and not cause problems.

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Truthfully, if you brought it back now you wouldn't likely have the widespread issues we had back then.  As RIC said, rockets were built like pancakes then due to a number of factors including the lack of stiffness, the lack of part variety, lack of actual functioning launch clamps, and the almost required use of asparagus staging (though the really early versions didn't even have the fuel lines).  None of those issues exist anymore.  However, it's still an incredible sore spot for those of us who experienced it, especially given the tower didn't actually even do anything.  Keep in mind it didn't hold your rocket like the launch clamps, it was about as functional as the water tower... purely ornamental.  It also had this annoying yellow lip (probably the worst part of it) that hung over the launch pad.  It caused many disasters.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Alshain

[Red Iron Crown]

  On 5/3/2017 at 11:53 PM, Alshain said:

It also had this annoying yellow lip (probably the worst part of it) that hung over the launch pad.

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*eyetwitch* I thought I was over that but I am so not.

I should say that I'm not opposed to some better launch tower-style functionality, if it supported the rocket and was more flexible (a bit like launch clamps are now). But whenever I see "Bring the tower back!" I can't help but be flooded with bad memories of it. Something new could be awesome, but I really hope that thing never comes back.

[Alshain]

  On 5/3/2017 at 11:59 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

*eyetwitch* I thought I was over that but I am so not.

I should say that I'm not opposed to some better launch tower-style functionality, if it supported the rocket and was more flexible (a bit like launch clamps are now). But whenever I see "Bring the tower back!" I can't help but be flooded with bad memories of it. Something new could be awesome, but I really hope that thing never comes back.

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As @Veeltech said, a placeable part like the launch clamp that looked and behaved more like real towers such as the strongbacks would be perfect.  I think there are some mods out there that have them.

EDIT:

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Alshain

[ZooNamedGames]

  On 5/3/2017 at 11:59 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

*eyetwitch* I thought I was over that but I am so not.

I should say that I'm not opposed to some better launch tower-style functionality, if it supported the rocket and was more flexible (a bit like launch clamps are now). But whenever I see "Bring the tower back!" I can't help but be flooded with bad memories of it. Something new could be awesome, but I really hope that thing never comes back.

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Ah that makes sense.

[NoMrBond]

Well KSP does now support compound parts with adjustments at both ends, does this mean we could have a launch clamp which is a ground fixed tower with a place-able/stretchable/run-able end like struts work?

You could even use Vectrosity (which KSP already uses) to make it have correctly sagging utility lines from tower to the clamp attach point

[Frozen_Heart]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:36 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Which mystifies me; why? Was that badly in the way? Did it limit build size? Even though I came after the tower (in .19), I still rarely have ever needed to make sure a large northernly turn that early in the flight.

If it was build size, then I say that they should have the launchpad extend to accommodate larger builds and therefore, making sure it's never in the way. 

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Yes it limited build size massively. Many of my current vehicles wouldn't work in older versions simply due to that tower. 

 

Its removal greatly freed how i could construct large motherships, allowing one launch rather than several smaller rockets.

[egoego]

Yes for extending the arms (could maybe be done with tweakables).

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:36 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Which mystifies me; why? Was that badly in the way? Did it limit build size?

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After such a long time my abiding memory is of my feeble lfters always seemingly managing to get hooked up on the thankfully blasted yellow thing at the top, I can't recall it serving any function other than making launches trickier for new players than they are today.

For ref the offending article

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Edited May 5, 2017 by SpannerMonkey(smce)