Rover test range for KSC

[Moiety]

Everyone that has developed a rover in KSP knows that testing them is essential; unless you really like to discover you didn’t bring enough EC to transmit your science after you launch. What’s missing for this is a rover test range.

What’s a rover test range?

Well, in its most simple way it’s just a piece of land that has various hills etc to emulate the surface on other planets. This is especially helpful to test suspension. Like this Apollo-era rover testrange:

Or this (rather small) ESA test range:

Another example:

Cool, what else?

Hmm, well, suspension aside, things like “did I bring enough EC to transmit this stuff?” could be answered by testing at night. But that isn’t very handy, so a small garage/shed like building on the test range could help with this (park in the shade / out of the sun so solar panels don’t work). In order for this test range to be helpful you should be able to launch a vehicle from it (no point in having to drive to it).

Any other ideas for this would be appreciated.

[ZooNamedGames]

Well good thing there is a test range. It's just 10km west of the KSC (about a 10 minute drive). 

Yes its realistic and whatnot but sadly not many will go for it due to performance issues and the fact there are always quicker alternatives. 

[Moiety]

@ZooNamedGames you mean the grasslands? Also, a 10 minute drive with what? The tiny wheels, the LRV type wheels? Also, how would this impact performance? It’s not like this would have a high poly-count.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Moiety

[ZooNamedGames]

14 minutes ago, Moiety said:

@ZooNamedGames you mean the grasslands? Also, a 10 minute drive with what? The tiny wheels, the LRV type wheels? Also, how would this impact performance? It’s not like this would have a high poly-count.

Yes. Or a 5 minute flight hauling the rover to mountains. Whichever.

People in my experience barely want another runway much less anything else.

This is just some initial stones that will be thrown at your idea. I'm neither for or against in the long run. I've got options around it but I'll use it if it exists. 

So good luck and sorry for being a Debby downer.

[Moiety]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

Yes. Or a 5 minute flight hauling the rover to mountains. Whichever.

People in my experience barely want another runway much less anything else.

Having to travel 5-10 minutes before you can test isn’t very helpful. Especially not when you are in a continuous development cycle. It would be much better to have something right there at the KSC.

To repeat my question: how would this impact performance?

In my experience people wouldn’t mind a good test environment for rovers.

[ZooNamedGames]

This is just some initial stones that will be thrown at your idea. I'm neither for or against in the long run. I've got options around it but I'll use it if it exists. 

So good luck and sorry for being a Debby downer.

[Moiety]

I’m all for a good discussion about whether this is really needed or if it would in fact be helpful or even used. However, if you want such a discussion I propose coming up with better arguments than “You can easily waste time by driving to this one location 10 KM from the KSC”. If you had to drive your rockets 10 KM from the VAB to test them you’d probably ask for a more direct solution too.

Perhaps you could turn the throwing stones into throwing creative solutions at the problems.

So, anyway

To get back to a slightly more positive atmosphere, some benefits:

• Shorten development time for rovers
• Lengthen development time for rovers because you like spending time on the new test range so much
• Rest assured your 40 K$ costing rover will actually work in the far reaches of the solar system
• Add realism to the KSC
• There’s a place to launch planes and one for rockets, why not one for rovers?

[Starman4308]

One possible minor issue is that it would change the layout of KSC, which is largely assumed fixed. For example, the default launchsite in Galileo's Planet Pack is on a fairly small island, so there may be some Fun (TM) to re-configure those launch sites if it changes the area of KSC.

Granted, overall I'm in favor of the idea; while personally I'd probably have it as a static object next to the runway ("launch" rover from the runway, drive off it a short distance to the rover test range), it'd be nice to have something with a variety of slopes and grades close to KSC*.

*And don't get me started on the "just drive to the grasslands" bit if you're playing on 6.4x.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Starman4308
Typo fix

[Moiety]

Something adjacent to the runway could work very well! Something between the runway and the administration building for example. I’m not familiar with the space center in Galileo (outside of Scott’s videos). Do they place anything in that particular spot?

[cratercracker]

I think there should be testing facility.

With some other things, like aerodynamic tube, or obstacle course both for Kerbals and rovers.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I agree, but I'm doubtful of any major changes to KSC at this point

 

[galactictaco]

to throw my hat in the ring, i enjoy the idea, as some one who uses rovers a lot in caveman runs, but i have a problem with it.

 

gravity: stability is essential in a new alien environment like the Mun or Minmus and your rover will be more stable on Kerbin with the higher gravity.

 

the way i do it usually is a quick spin with the rover on the launch pad, a hard 180, then drive it down the ramp and see if it flips about and explodes when it gets to the bottom. then drive it across the field and see if it turns acceptably. its usually a rigorous enough testing regimen to work out major stability concerns, especially since rover missions are intentional grind fests, fueled by the zen effect of listening to rap music and watching a little adorable rover stunt across a lunar landscape. you don't do these at more than 10 MPS unless you are just having fun for S's and G's. if you are driving tens of kilometers for a mission you start taking sensible precautions like just taking it slow and preplanning a route around, not through, a crater.

 

so i think its a cool idea, but that it would be a window dressing more than anything, because it won't be an analogue for the Mun or other low G low pressure environments, and the KSC already provides a good number of slopes and hard edges to give your rover the business before launching it into space.

 

[fourfa]

This would be a good suggestion to lob at KSC++ or Kerbinside

[Alshain]

The biggest issue is that it would be artificial like the tier 1 runway.  Static models don't simulate terrain well.  The Grasslands really is your best option.

[tater]

Also, rovers would be tested for the location, ideally. Like a boom and a line over the rover so that the wheel pressure is identical to the target world... assuming we did that with mars rovers, etc.

Intereting study:

http://fsr.utias.utoronto.ca/submissions/FSR_2015_submission_55.pdf

Edited May 7, 2017 by tater

[The Raging Sandwich]

I like it!

[Moiety]

16 hours ago, Alshain said:

The biggest issue is that it would be artificial like the tier 1 runway.  Static models don't simulate terrain well.  The Grasslands really is your best option.

Can you elaborate on that a bit? The various ramps around KSC work pretty well when it comes to suspension test.

 

14 hours ago, tater said:

Also, rovers would be tested for the location, ideally. Like a boom and a line over the rover so that the wheel pressure is identical to the target world... assuming we did that with mars rovers, etc.

Intereting study:

http://fsr.utias.utoronto.ca/submissions/FSR_2015_submission_55.pdf

Oeh I like that!

[DarkOwl57]

Or you could just Whack-a-kerbal the R&D and used the crushed structures for suspension tests... Just saying

[XLjedi]

A rover test range?  Funny you should mention it...

I find the grounds of the KSC already make for a pretty good test area.

MLV Field Test

...but would not be opposed to some varied terrain, inclines, and so forth.  Maybe add on a small first-aid station?  

[Just Jim]

23 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Well good thing there is a test range. It's just 10km west of the KSC (about a 10 minute drive). 

I agree with @ZooNamedGames, the surrounding hills are a great place to test a rover... I also really like the old airstrip island. It has a couple nice hills to try and climb.

However, to the OP's point:

23 hours ago, Moiety said:

Having to travel 5-10 minutes before you can test isn’t very helpful. Especially not when you are in a continuous development cycle. It would be much better to have something right there at the KSC.

I have no problem with Squad "bumping up" one of the nearby fields into something more like a road course. That would be loads of fun.

But until they do, I see no problem using a mod like HyperEdit to test a new rover. If you want to test it in the hills, or the island airstrip, or even on the Mun, just use H/E to land the rover wherever you need and test away....

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Just Jim

[DarkOwl57]

1 minute ago, Just Jim said:

I have no problem with Squad "bumping up" one of the nearby fields into something more like a road course. That would be loads of fun.

Road Course? ROAD COURSE?! *Inner racer intensifies*

[ccoel]

WAHT

IMA GO BUILD AN F1

[DarkOwl57]

But yeah, to test the suspensions, just whack the heck out of the KSC buildings with Whack-a-kerbal, and do a terrain test there! Saves time, and energy! (Not money, but win-some, lose-some

Edited May 8, 2017 by DarkOwl57

[Just Jim]

3 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

Road Course? ROAD COURSE?! *Inner racer intensifies*

Is that the wrong definition?

[DarkOwl57]

Just now, Just Jim said:

Is that the wrong definition?

nope. I'd just love a racing course to use. Unfortunately that's not a big thing in the KSP community