KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Northstar1989]

Another thing I noticed:

- The boiloff rate for LqdCO2 in RealFuels (as set by RealFuelsFix) is completely off. Whoever wrote those configs based the CO2 loss-rate off the *uninsulated* loss-rate for Liquid Oxygen, which would explain why I've seen my Carbon Dioxide boil off far too fast... (Liquid CO2 boils off MUCH more slowly than Liquid Oxygen, *not* faster...)

A BETTER config for LqdCO2 (one with a loss-rate that is more accurate- and thus helps to balance CO2, which has few advantages as a propellant besides being easily stored...) is the following:

    TANK //Add LiquidCO2 to Cryogenic tanks.
    {
        name = LiquidCO2
	mass = 0.00006
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -56
    	loss_rate = 0.000000000006
    	note = (has insulation, pressurized)
    }

The new loss-rate is slightly less than the rate for insulated Ammonia tanks at 1 atm (not "pressurized" in RelaFuels)- Ammonia at 1 atm has a slightly lower boiling-point than CO2 at 5-6 atm (I actually copy-pasted the rate for Ammonia and replaced the 7 with a 6...) The loss-rates decrease exponentially with higher boiling temperatures and molecular weights in both real-life and RealFuels... (that is, Ammonia has a boiling-point a bit more than double that of LqdOxygen in terms of absolute temperature, but only 1/5th the loss-rate for an insulated fuel tank in RealFuels...) and the new loss-rate is based off the exponential relationship already present in RealFuels plus a slight (less than 5%) further decrease in loss-rate to reflect reduced thermal leakage into the tank (what ultimately drives all boiloff) due to having thicker tank walls (see below...)

I also increased the tank-mass slightly more than 5-fold compared to unpressurized but insulated LOX (or 6-fold compared to LqdMethane), as CO2 must be kept pressurized above 5.10 atm to remain as a liquid... (this is as the tank walls must be stronger to hold the increased pressure- and thus proportionally more massive/thick...) I assume an at least 5.1-fold increase in the mass of the tank in proportion with the increased pressure... (as pressure vessels generally have walls that grow nearly in direct proportion thicker with increasing pressure-differential with the environment...)

These aren't all the changes I strongly suggest be made to the RealFuelsFix file, however. CO2 and Nitrogen should also be added to RealFuels ServiceModule tank-types (unlike Cryo and BallonCryo tanks, ServiceModule tanks are ALWAYS pressurized...) with the following additional lines of config (note that the tank-masses are heavier for the ServiceModule tanks than for other tank-types, like with all the other propellants in RealFuels...)

@TANK_DEFINITION[ServiceModule]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    TANK //Add LiquidCO2 to ServiceModule tanks.
    {
        name = LiquidCO2
	mass = 0.00008
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -56
    	loss_rate = 0.000000000006
    	note = (has insulation, pressurized)
    }
    TANK //Add LiquidNitrogen to ServiceModule tanks. Values are based off of LqdOxygen.
    {
        name = LqdNitrogen
	mass = 0.00008
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -183
    	loss_rate = 0.00000000002
    	note = (has insulation, pressurized)
    }
}

Finally, insulating Nitrogen and (especially) CO2 isn't necessarily a requirement- especially for launch stages. What tanks which don't count as "insulated" in RealFuels simulate are tanks which are only lightly-insulated. Such tanks are often actually used for cryogenic launch-stages in real life, as there is no need to keep the fuels cold for long if they'll only be in the tanks a few minutes between launch and MECO (Main-Engine Cutoff, i.e. first-stage separation for most designs...)

As such, there should also be the option to store them in only lightly insulated fuel-tanks, which would make for lighter stages (but have significantly higher boiloff-rates). The following data for these tank types is based off such tanks for other cryogenic fuels, such as LOX and LH2...

@TANK_DEFINITION[Default,Balloon]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    TANK //Add LiquidCO2 to standard tanks.
    {
        name = LiquidCO2
	mass = 0.000062
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -56
    	loss_rate = 0.000000002
    	note = (lacks insulation, pressurized)
    }
    TANK //Add LiquidNitrogen to standard tanks. Values are based off of LqdOxygen.
    {
        name = LqdNitrogen
	mass = 0.000014
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -183
    	loss_rate = 0.00000001
    	note = (lacks insulation)
    }
}

Note that the actual tanks themselves are HEAVIER for their fuel-capacity: but the structure they are built into is much lighter, and this more than makes up for it. Thus a LOX Balloon tank stage is always lighter than a LOX BalloonCryo tank stage of equivalent capacity, despite the LOX tank itself being heavier, due to the lighter weight of the structure it fits within... The same balance is maintained here- the increase in tank mass is less than the decrease in the mass of the structure the tanks fit into...

I know I've been suggesting a lot of changes lately, but they are all VERY IMPORTANT! Please try and incorporate these changes in the next update FreeThinker.

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

I know I've been suggesting a lot of changes lately, but they are all VERY IMPORTANT! Please try and incorporate these changes in the next update FreeThinker.

Well as long as they they can be copy paste implemented, it's no trouble at all.

[NecroBones]

Hey, just a quick note-- FreeThinker, I tried replying to your PM but it says your mailbox is full. Anyway, was just saying: Good deal on the fuel tanks, and thanks for the head's up. I'll have to take a look.

[Erik3003]

I have a little question about this awesome addon: Is there some kind of RealFuels support, or is it possible to play with Interstellar + Extended + RF without fuel conflicts? If yes, is there something special to remember?

[FreeThinker]

I have a little question about this awesome addon: Is there some kind of RealFuels support, or is it possible to play with Interstellar + Extended + RF without fuel conflicts? If yes, is there something special to remember?

Realfuels is actualy one one the main mods KSPI offers support for. Even better, it's propellant are moving in the same direction. I have actively advocated for integration with RealFuels 1unit = 1L standard which is being implemented in CRP 2.0 which is released after KSP 1.0 next monday

[Northstar1989]

Realfuels is actualy one one the main mods KSPI offers support for. Even better, it's propellant are moving in the same direction. I have actively advocated for integration with RealFuels 1unit = 1L standard which is being implemented in CRP 2.0 which is released after KSP 1.0 next monday

Yeah- but the RealFuelsFix hasn't yet been updated to allow the RealFuels tanks to hold the new, re-named Nitrogen resource for KSP-Interstellar (since RealFuels has no native use for cryogenic Nitrogen- and its only Nitrogen is NitrogenGas for RCS- it doesn't have any native tanks for LqdNitrogen of its own...) I also posted new lines of code to add to the file to allow Nitrogen and CO2 to be stored in ServiceModule and standard (Default and Balloon) fuel-tank types.

In hindsight, the "Fuselage" tank-type is functionally identical to a ServiceModule tank-type, except with higher impact-resistance and an even heavier frame the tanks fit into, and should also be added as a valid RealFuels tank-type to hold Nitrogen. Thus the code to add Nitrogen tanks to "ServiceModule" frames should also apply to adding the same tanks to "Fuselage" frames, as follows:

@TANK_DEFINITION[ServiceModule,Fuselage]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    TANK //Add LiquidCO2 to ServiceModule and Fuselage tanks.
    {
        name = LiquidCO2
	mass = 0.00008
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -56
    	loss_rate = 0.000000000006
    	note = (has insulation, pressurized)
    }
    TANK //Add LiquidNitrogen to ServiceModule and Fuselage tanks. Values are based off of LqdOxygen.
    {
        name = LqdNitrogen
	mass = 0.00008
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -183
    	loss_rate = 0.00000000002
    	note = (has insulation, pressurized)
    }
}

FreeThinker, please add these tank-definitions (from this post and my previous post) to the next update as soon as possible, and raise the starting-points for the decomposition-curves of Water and CO2 to 2200 and 5000 K, respectively.

Regards,

Northstar

- - - Updated - - -

Intresting, how can nitrogen help me get rid of the excess Liquid Oxygen? Perhaps we can use our excess Oxygen it other ways also. What about using Oxygen as an afterburner for Ammonia/Hydrazine? Would that work?

That was a typo, actually. I meant to say "Hydrogen" not Oxygen. The only sense Nitrogen can be "burned" with Oxygen is by using it in a ISRU Refinery to make N2O4, which is the oxidizer normally used with hypergolic fuels (MMH and UDMH- which are both Hydrazine with extra methyl groups tacked on, see my previous posts on why the reactions to make both should be added to our ISRU processes...)

However, Oxygen *can* be used as an afterburner with either Ammonia or Hydrazine, to achieve a LANTR-effect (the same as is used to augment the thrust of Hydrogen with HydroLOX-LANTR, but with different Thrust and ISP...) by combusting Oxygen injected at the exhaust-nozzle with H₂ in the exhaust-gasses from an Ammonia or Hydrazine Thermal Rocket (both of which produce a combination of Nitrogen and Hydrogen gas as exhaust gasses...)

For ISRU I'm planning something different. The problem is that all these chemical processes create a lot of duplicate code which is error prone. Instead I want to make it modular, like our Propellant definitions. Basicly you configure the input resources, output resources and some modifiers (volume, power requirements, atmospheric usage, etc). That way, anyone with some basic understanding of chemical processes, can create any ISRU proces definition they can think off. For I care you can create an definition for any obscure realFuels chemical ever invented. I don't want to get bothered by the details

As I discussed before, the best system for code like that would be an adoption of Regolith. That has some tricky issues with drawing directly on atmospheric resources, however none of the new ISRU reactions except Solid Oxide CO2-Electrolysis and Methane Pyrolysis (which requires a source of hot CO2 to clear out the reaction chamber of the graphite produced) actually rely directly on any atmospheric resources...

Still, although expanding the current system may be error-prone, I think it's the only way we could reasonably hammer out the new ISRU reactions before next Monday- unless you were able to draw RoverDude in to work with you on using Regolith-code (he doesn't like me very much, and we probably wouldn't work well together). So, I would suggest just hammering out the code with the existing system so we can get it done before 1.0 already!

erhaps I can fix these issues If I expose a few more variables which allows you to tweak the curve. THat way you can make it at close to reality as you like.

Edit: I got a better sollution. I will provide you the ability to tweak the temperature ratio precisely using a floatcurve. It will be your Job to provide the nodes. You can use a unity floatcurve editor to create the nodes

Too complicated. I don't have the time for that kind of thing anymore- as is I'm pushing the limited time I have available between my two new jobs (and one existing job) which are just starting up to write everything you've seen so far... Can we please just get to the ISRU reactions already? I really, really, REALLY want to get those out before the 1.0 release on Monday!

Regards,

Northstar

- - - Updated - - -

The ISRU Reactions may seem intimidating, but can actually be added quite quickly. After all, we have all the required resources already implemented (or part of RealFuels- in which cases we need only borrow the RealFuels definitions ad add them to our configs), I can easily provide you with the mass-fractions of each reactant and product for the reaction, and the relevant rates and power-requirements can be eyeballed (although I will provide you with information on where we need to balance them relative to the existing reactions, and provide some estimates for good numbers to use in each case). We can EASILY knock this out in a couple days of focused effort.

The list, again:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111159-WIP-0-90-KSP-Interstellar-Extended-0-9-3-Updated-21-4-2015?p=1837855&viewfull=1#post1837855

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 0.9.5 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90[/h] Released on 2015-04-23

• Increased Temperature Range Water and CO2
  
• Fixed Boiling temperature LqdCO2 and LqdCO in Interstelar Fuel Tanks
  
• Replaced LH2-Lox mode in Interstelar Fuel Tanks by Methalox
  
• Replaced Interstelar Fuel Tanks only contain a single resource at the time
  
• Added Co2 and LqdNitrogen Tank definitions for RealFuels
  
• Added LqdCO as an electric propellant
  
• Added Better decription for each fuel Mode for Interstelar Fuel Tanks
  
• Removed merged resource changes from RealFuels configuration file
  
• Removed Oxidizer from Engines
  
• Removed LiquidFuel, LFO, Kethane as a NTR and Electric Propellant
  

[Northstar1989]

Also, it's not specified on the original list, but the point we would be running the Fischer-Tropsch process to is to manufacture RP-1, which is comprised almost entirely of 12-Carbon alkanes (C₁₂H₂₆). This is the stoichiometric ratio we would be using to determine the mass-fractions of CO vs. H₂.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP-1

Regards,

Northstar

- - - Updated - - -

[h=2]Version 0.9.5 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90[/h] Released on 2015-04-23

AWESOME!

What do these entries in the changelog mean?

• Replaced LH2-Lox mode in Interstelar Fuel Tanks by Methalox
  
• Replaced Interstelar Fuel Tanks only contain a single resource at the time
  
• Removed merged resource changes from RealFuels configuration file
  

In particular, did you make it so the interstellar fuel tanks can no longer hold HydroLOX (if so, why?) or just re-order the fuel-modes for the interstellar tanks? Also, which "merged resource changes" did you remove from the RealFuelsFix file? What exactly do you mean by that term?

Regards,

Northstar

Edited April 23, 2015 by Northstar1989

[FreeThinker]

In particular, did you make it so the interstellar fuel tanks can no longer hold HydroLOX (if so, why?) or just re-order the fuel-modes for the interstellar tanks?

NO, Hydrolox remains of cource!! I just removed the Saturated LH2-Lox , where you have 50% more Oxygen. I though it was useful for the new LOX mode I wanted to introduce, but you torpedoed it, so becomes less usefull, and too confusing to people to justify it existence.

The smaller tanks no longer contain Hydrolox, the idea is that they are too small to allow split tanks that you can switch. You going to fill them with some reserve propellant, which you for example can use to store excess oxygen.

I remoced all RealFuel MM configs that replaced LiquidFuel/Oxidiser by LqdHyrogen/LqdOxigen, they are no longer needed as I finally removed support for all fantasy resources, which includes LiquidFuel/Oxidiser/Kathane except Monopropelaant. Perhaps some people don't like it. Well they can always free add it them self, but it won't be mine concern anymore.

Edited April 23, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Northstar1989]

NO, Hydrolox remains of cource!! I just removed the Saturated LH2-Lox , where you have 50% more Oxygen. I though it was useful for the new LOX mode I wanted to introduce, but you torpedoed it, so becomes less usefull, and too confusing to people to justify it existence.

The smaller tanks no longer contain Hydrolox, the idea is that they are too small to allow split tanks that you can switch. You going to fill them with some reserve propellant, which you for example can use to store excess oxygen.

I remoced all RealFuel MM configs that replaced LiquidFuel/Oxidiser by LqdHyrogen/LqdOxigen, they are no longer needed as I finally removed support for all fantasy resources, which includes LiquidFuel/Oxidiser/Kathane except Monopropelaant. Perhaps some people don't like it. Well they can always free add it them self, but it won't be mine concern anymore.

Awesome! Look like another great set of changes to me!

Just a thought- I honestly don't think Kethane players will be too bothered by the changes. There exist configs out there to allow Kethane to produce Interstellar and RealFuels resources- as long as those remain up-to-date (which is Kethane's responsibility, not ours) they should easily be able to convert Kethane into Methane or any of the other realistic fuels we use... Your changes reduce GUI clutter for non-Kethane players, and makes our download a bit smaller and easier to maintain the configs of...

Finally, I just thought I'd share one of the videos that first inspired me to want to expand the KSP-Interstellar ISRU system to be more complete. Even though this video relies on Kethane (and is thus somewhat unrealsitic) the same plan could be better (and more realistically) carried out in KSP-Interstellar, especially once we add the ISRU reactions I listed before (either the Reverse Water Gas Shift Reaction or Solid Oxide CO2-Eletrolysis are necessary to produce enough LOX to burn all the Methane produced by the Sabatier Process in a chemical Meth/LOX rocket on Mars/Duna using Hydrogen sent from Earth/Kerbin as a feedstock...)

This video was nominated for the Oscar-B awards!

This also reminds me- we REALLY need a smaller version of the chemical Meth/LOX engine in KSP-Interstellar. One with a more compact profile, better-suited for landers and upper stages...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited April 23, 2015 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

Freethinker,

Two minor additional things that need to be fixed:

First of all, I missed this in my comments before, but the commented-out sections in the RealFuelsFix file should say they are adding "LqdNitrogen" to the RelaFuels tanks, not "LiquidNitrogen".

Second, you forgot to add the code for the lightly-insulated (Default and Balloon) tank-types. Here it is, again, with the comment fixed:

@TANK_DEFINITION[Default,Balloon]:NEEDS[RealFuels]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    TANK //Add LiquidCO2 to standard tanks.
    {
        name = LiquidCO2
	mass = 0.000062
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -56
    	loss_rate = 0.000000002
    	note = (lacks insulation, pressurized)
    }
    TANK //Add LqdNitrogen to standard tanks. Values are based off of LqdOxygen.
    {
        name = LqdNitrogen
	mass = 0.000014
    	utilization = 1
    	fillable = True
    	amount = 0.0
    	maxAmount = 0.0
    	temperature = -183
    	loss_rate = 0.00000001
    	note = (lacks insulation)
    }
}

RealFuels already allows players to stick cryogenic fuels such as LqdHydrogen and LqdOxygen in lightly-insulated (Default and Balloon) tanks. Players should be able to do the same with LqdCO2 and LqdNitrogen, which have higher boiling-points (and thus are going to suffer less boiloff as a result of cutting down on the insulation mass...)

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

First of all, I missed this in my comments before, but the commented-out sections in the RealFuelsFix file should say they are adding "LqdNitrogen" to the RelaFuels tanks, not "LiquidNitrogen".

I already catched this

Anothother thing all together. I think the electric engines and propellant need some updating

I have the feeling many of the electric propellant/engines have the wrong type, efficency, isp and thrust

For example LqdHelium currently has an efficiency of only 0.6 but when it is seeded with Potassium, it's efficency is supposed to be 79%

What exactly are the propellant limitiation to work in a ArcJet Thruster or Magnetoplasma Dynamic thruster? From my understanding, any liquid should work as long as it's not oxidising

Lithium and Xeon currently has a propellant type of 9, which means it does not work in the ArcJet Thruster. Any Idea why not?

The Isp of our Magnetoplasmadynamic seems wrong, according to Atomic Rockets it Isp is 32,008s - 78,500s , which is at least 3 times as high as our current Magnetoplasmadynamic Isp is. Why is it so low? Considering the Isp of Xenon 4200 and Isp multiplier of 0.1234 The Maximum Isp should be 34035s

An arcjet rocket or arcjet thruster is a form of electrically powered spacecraft propulsion, in which an electrical discharge (arc) is created in a flow of propellant^[1][2] (typically hydrazine or ammonia). This imparts additional energy to the propellant, so that one can extract more work out of each kilogram of propellant, at the expense of increased power consumption and (usually) higher cost.

The ArcJet Thruster is supposed to heat propellant like a NTR does, but it currently does not get the Propellants Thrust / Isp benefits the NTR enjoy. I therefore think the ArcJet Thruster should benefit form the same Isp / Thrust bonusses from propellants like Ammonia and Hydrazine, as NTR do. This would make ArcJet Thrusters significantly much more intresting, especialy for Microwave Powered vessels.

A working fluid such as hydrogen can be heated to 12,000 K by an electric arc. Since the temperatures imparted are not limited by the melting point of tungsten, as they are in a sold core electrothermal engine such as a resistojet, the arcjet can burn four times as hot.

Condisering that at 12000K CO2 would decompose into C and O2, I guess CO2 it's not suitable for ArcJets as it would Oxidise the engine, and neigher would CO

Edited April 24, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Thorbane]

I think I've found an issue with Extra-planetary launchpads and this mod, any ship built with EPL magically refills it's cryostats reverts it's cryostats to default levels when unfocused.

Also could we get something like arcjet RCS? I've been wanting something like that for a while, it would cut back on my MP usage.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Thorbane

[pellinor]

@FreeThinker: TweakScale includes some TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS definitions for interstellar and you modify them with MM patches. Supposing this is the only version of KSPI that is actively developed, would you like to take over those definitions and distribute them with KSPI? I think this makes more sense than having the configs in two places. KSP 1.0 would be a good time to make the transition.

There are a couple of module names starting with "FN" that I can not match to a mod yet, do they also come from KSPI?

[FreeThinker]

@FreeThinker: TweakScale includes some TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS definitions for interstellar and you modify them with MM patches. Supposing this is the only version of KSPI that is actively developed, would you like to take over those definitions and distribute them with KSPI? I think this makes more sense than having the configs in two places. KSP 1.0 would be a good time to make the transition.

There are a couple of module names starting with "FN" that I can not match to a mod yet, do they also come from KSPI?

Yes, very much, TweakScale TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS definitions are often terrorizing me, making my life harder with wrong config. I even went so far creating new modules just to escape the terror of TweakScale definitions.

FN parts are likely to be KSPI parts.

Edited April 24, 2015 by FreeThinker

[pellinor]

Yes, very much, TweakScale TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS definitions are often terrorizing me, making my life harder with wrong settings

Great, so here are the exponents that might be from KSPI. Please check which ones you'd like to take over, and I'll remove those in the TweakScale release for KSP 1.0.

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = ModuleSolarSail
surfaceArea = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = MicrowavePowerReceiver
collectorArea = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = ISRUScoop
scoopair = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = AtmosphericIntake
area = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNRadiator
radiatorArea = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = AlcubierreDrive
effectSize1 = 1
effectSize2 = 1
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = AntimatterStorageTank
chargeNeeded = 2
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNGenerator
radius = 1
maxThermalPower = 3
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNAntimatterReactor
radius = 1
ReactorTemp = 1.16
PowerOutput = 3
upgradedReactorTemp = 1.55
upgradedPowerOutput = 3
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNFusionReactor
radius = 1;
ThermalPower = 3;
resourceRate = 3;
upgradedThermalPower = 3;
upgradedResourceRate = 3;
powerRequirements = 3;
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNNozzleController
radius = 1
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = FNNozzleControllerFX
radius = 1
}


TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = InterstellarFissionMSRGC
radius = 1
PowerOutput = 4.4
upgradedPowerOutput = 4.4
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = InterstellarFissionPBDP
radius = 1
PowerOutput = 3
upgradedPowerOutput = 3
powerRequirements = 3
}

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor
radius = 1
PowerOutput = 3.18
upgradedPowerOutput = 3.18
}


TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
name = InterstellarTokamakFusionReator
radius = 1;
PowerOutput = 5.13;
resourceRate = 5.13;
upgradedThermalPower = 3;
upgradedResourceRate = 3;
powerRequirements = 3;
}

[FreeThinker]

Version 0.9.6 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-25

• Increased Power output of Fusion Engines for advanced Fuel Modes
  
• Fixed LqdTritium Breeding with Lithium in Fusion Engines
  
• Added Tritium Suppressed Fusion Mode, which allows you to Breed Tritium at an much accelerate rate from Deuterium
  
• Vista Engines Laser are now only 19% efficient, meaning they will generate a lot of Waste Heat
  
• Vista Engines now scales correctly with Size
  
• Ammonia and Hydrazine can now only be used ArcJets Electric engines and have increased Isp and Thrust similar to NTR
  
• Plasma Thruster now has TweakScale support
  
• Replaced H2Perroxide by HTP
  
• Added Addition Fuel Tank Definition to Real Fuels
  
• Fixed Anthraquinone refinery Process to use Hydrogen and Oxygen instead of Water
  

Edited April 25, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Thorbane]

Version 0.9.6 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-25

• Increased Power output of Fusion Engines for advanced Fuel Modes
  
• Fixed LqdTritium Breeding with Lithium in Fusion Engines
  
• Added Tritium Suppressed Fusion Mode, which allows you to Breed Tritium at an much accelerate rate from Deuterium
  
• Vista Engines Laser are now only 19% efficient, meaning they will generate a lot of Waste Heat
  
• Vista Engines now scales correctly with Size
  
• Ammonia and Hydrazine can now only be used ArcJets Electric engines and have increased Isp and Thrust similar to NTR
  
• Plasma Thruster now has TweakScale support
  
• Replaced H2Perroxide by HTP
  
• Added Addition Fuel Tank Definition to Real Fuels
  

What do you mean by only 19% efficient? Does that mean 81% of the base 2.5GW is converted to waste heat or 81% of the total reaction energy including the fusion that occurs outside the ship?

[FreeThinker]

What do you mean by only 19% efficient? Does that mean 81% of the base 2.5GW is converted to waste heat or 81% of the total reaction energy including the fusion that occurs outside the ship?

The Vista will still have the exact same performance, it's just that It also creates a lot of Waste Heat. This is based on real specs. The more powerful the Laser, the less efficient they become.

Notice that I haven't included the heat from the Neutrons heat transfer yet. Notice D-T fusion create 80% neutrons. A significant part of this will hit our Vista Engine.

Edited April 26, 2015 by FreeThinker

[pellinor]

@FreeThinker: I found another file with part patches that look like KSPI. Would you also take this over?

https://github.com/pellinor0/TweakScale/blob/master/GameData/TweakScale/Warp_TweakScale.cfg

[FreeThinker]

@FreeThinker: I found another file with part patches that look like KSPI. Would you also take this over?

https://github.com/pellinor0/TweakScale/blob/master/GameData/TweakScale/Warp_TweakScale.cfg

Yes, please cut them out of Tweak scale, I like to take care of all KSPI related myself and put them in the parts themself

[Northstar1989]

I already catched this

Anothother thing all together. I think the electric engines and propellant need some updating

I have the feeling many of the electric propellant/engines have the wrong type, efficency, isp and thrust

Generally speaking, the propellants have the right thrust and ISP for their molecular mass relative to the other propellants. The Magnetoplasmodynamic thrusters do have less ISP than they would in real life- this is for gameplay balance reasons as I understood it...

For example LqdHelium currently has an efficiency of only 0.6 but when it is seeded with Potassium, it's efficency is supposed to be 79%

When did we add LqdHelium as a valid electric thruster propellant???

What exactly are the propellant limitiation to work in a ArcJet Thruster or Magnetoplasma Dynamic thruster? From my understanding, any liquid should work as long as it's not oxidising

Arcjets require propellants stable under very high temperatures (i.e. not CO2, CO, or Methane). Magnetoplasmodynamics directly accelerate the propellants more than they heat them, and as such work well with propellants such as CO2 (which would quickly break down into soot in a Arcjet thruster...)

Lithium and Xeon currently has a propellant type of 9, which means it does not work in the ArcJet Thruster. Any Idea why not?

I think I remember these propellants would be unmanageable in an arcjet for some reason...

The Isp of our Magnetoplasmadynamic seems wrong, according to Atomic Rockets it Isp is 32,008s - 78,500s , which is at least 3 times as high as our current Magnetoplasmadynamic Isp is. Why is it so low? Considering the Isp of Xenon 4200 and Isp multiplier of 0.1234 The Maximum Isp should be 34035s

Balance reasons. Really, it should be theoretically possible to build a Magnetoplasmodynamic thruster with much lower ISP and higher Thrust (which is what is currently simulated in KSP-Interstellar). I think Fractal_UK assumed higher ISP would not be useful (also remember he was balancing against the excessively-low power output of the old nuclear reactors- if his reactors had produced a realistic amount of electrical power he might have considered a higher ISP and lower Thrust/MW more acceptable...) Nobody wants to sit through a 2-hour series of burns just to make a single maneuver (such as a Duna transfer), even if it does mean your costs to haul things around the solar system become incredibly low...

The ArcJet Thruster is supposed to heat propellant like a NTR does, but it currently does not get the Propellants Thrust / Isp benefits the NTR enjoy. I therefore think the ArcJet Thruster should benefit form the same Isp / Thrust bonusses from propellants like Ammonia and Hydrazine, as NTR do. This would make ArcJet Thrusters significantly much more intresting, especialy for Microwave Powered vessels.

If you're referring to the extra ISP from the breakdown of the propellants into smaller molecules, yes this is currently not well-reflected for Ammonia or Hydrazine (which should remain usable in standard plasma thrusters, by the way). The mathematics would have to be re-done, though, as the pressure conditions are extremely low and the temperature extremely high inside an arcjet thruster (making the breakdown of Ammonia/Hydrazine much more energetically favorable and powerful than in a Thermal Rocket- if you can manage to control it...)

Condisering that at 12000K CO2 would decompose into C and O2, I guess CO2 it's not suitable for ArcJets as it would Oxidise the engine, and neigher would CO

Nope. There's a reason I never suggested adding CO2 to arcjets- only to the standard plasma thruster (where it remains well below temperatures were breakdown is problematic before the CO2 is ejected from the thruster...) Ammonia and Hydrazine, on the other hand, should be usable in BOTH thruster types- although they only get a Thrust/MW and ISP boost in arcjet thrusters... (for the record, I think most existing data on arcjets already takes into account these benefits when calculating ISP and Thrust/MW for Hydrazine or Ammonia- i.e. the Thrust/MW and ISP figures would be *much* lower with a completely passive propellant like Hydrogen...)

Regards,

Northstar

- - - Updated - - -

Version 0.9.6 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-25

• Increased Power output of Fusion Engines for advanced Fuel Modes
  
• Fixed LqdTritium Breeding with Lithium in Fusion Engines
  
• Added Tritium Suppressed Fusion Mode, which allows you to Breed Tritium at an much accelerate rate from Deuterium
  
• Vista Engines Laser are now only 19% efficient, meaning they will generate a lot of Waste Heat
  
• Vista Engines now scales correctly with Size
  
• Ammonia and Hydrazine can now only be used ArcJets Electric engines and have increased Isp and Thrust similar to NTR
  
• Plasma Thruster now has TweakScale support
  
• Replaced H2Perroxide by HTP
  
• Added Addition Fuel Tank Definition to Real Fuels
  
• Fixed Anthraquinone refinery Process to use Hydrogen and Oxygen instead of Water
  

Why did you remove Ammonia and Hydrazine from conventional plasma thrusters? They should be perfectly usable in these engines- they just don't get the thrust/ISP benefits they do in arcjets...

Ammonia is DEFINITELY a valid fuel for Magnetoplasmodynamic thrusters- in fact the first MPD thruster *EVER* tested in space, (the MST-4 satellite, by Japan, in 1981), used Ammonia for its propellant:

http://erps.spacegrant.org/uploads/images/images/iepc_articledownload_1988-2007/1995index/IEPC1995-02.pdf

Hydrzine is similarly useful for MPD thrusters, as well as arcjets.

Regards,

Northstar

Edited April 25, 2015 by Northstar1989

[pellinor]

Yes, please cut them out of Tweak scale, I like to take care of all KSPI related myself and put them in the parts themself

I removed the file with the part patches. For the TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS I'll wait for your feedback, because the list I posted probably contains modules from other mods. The exponents are all in one config file, often missing comments which mod each node is node meant for.

[FreeThinker]

I removed the file with the part patches. For the TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS I'll wait for your feedback, because the list I posted probably contains modules from other mods. The exponents are all in one config file, often missing comments which mod each node is node meant for.

A Verified they listed exponent are all KSPI parts

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 0.9.7 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90[/h] Released on 2015-04-26

• Fixed Interstellar Fuel Switch: You can now configure resource amounts in the VAB
  
• Fixed Interstellar Fuel Switch: Loading existing vessels
  
• Added Water (2%) to Kerbin Atmosphere
  
• Made Ammonia, Hydrazine available for all Electric Engines
  
• Thermal Thrust/Isp bonus only applies to ArjJets
  
• Added missing resource HTP
  
• Sorted Refinery processes