KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Weywot8]

So you're saying that you would always need to have kerbals on antimatter producing ships?

I'd prefer not to have my kerbals too close to such hazardous materials, besides I like my unmanned antimatter collector ships.

So I'd have to vote against it. I'm fine with how antimatter collection works right now.

Just my 2 cents.

How's about the ability to make things un-Kerbal'ed with use of computer core? Regain efficiencies by upgrading the core? It's reasonable progression - most people would have maxed out the tech tree already. And the computer core could be doing other sciency things in the science lab. Balance unmanned with the need for a high level Engineer on each ship to handle any transfer of antimatter between them. A bit of role-play has Bill & colleague doing maintenance work while they are out there. At the very least one Engineer because KAS-based pipe transfers exist.

You'd have to agree with at least that last bit as Jeb would just blow things up:cool: and Bob would be too scared to do it:rolleyes:.

Why 16.7x times?

100/6 =16.7. But it was only a suggestion. Engineers would find a way to make thing more efficiently so engineer away...I take it you are probably one IRL?

[pvtstash]

Well it could be. TEchnically if a reciever is aimed right, it could recieve all power from that direction. If there are multiple reciever that can recieve a signal, they proportionaly recieve power depending on their aiming angle. This can be confusing when you switch off one of them and the others spike in power.

Edit, notice, KSPI Radiator currenly do not interact with stock heat in any way. If stock heat is spiking unexpectedly, it's propably a stock bug.

Thanks again, FreeThinker. I do have some viable builds that can fill my needs without melting down, so I think I'm good for now.

It's pretty clear I'm missing some of the fundamentals of how the mechanics work. Is the wiki up to date from the old Fractal UK days or do you have any other public documentation?

Keep up the awesome work.

[FreeThinker]

Thanks again, FreeThinker. I do have some viable builds that can fill my needs without melting down, so I think I'm good for now.

It's pretty clear I'm missing some of the fundamentals of how the mechanics work. Is the wiki up to date from the old Fractal UK days or do you have any other public documentation?

Keep up the awesome work.

Regarding Microwave Networks, most of it is similar to clasic KSPI except for additional efficeny cost for atmospheric based Power stations and introduction of the sperical microwave reciever which can recieve at an angle of 270 degrees.

Edited July 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

[gary85]

how to prevent thermal turbojet overheating? i got 2 folding radiators but it overheat in like 10 sec

[FreeThinker]

how to prevent thermal turbojet overheating? i got 2 folding radiators but it overheat in like 10 sec

You need to combine it with a pre cooler otherwise the air is too hot. The preecooler needs to be connected directly with the air intake, either inline or radialy

- - - Updated - - -

How's about the ability to make things un-Kerbal'ed with use of computer core? Regain efficiencies by upgrading the core? It's reasonable progression - most people would have maxed out the tech tree already. And the computer core could be doing other sciency things in the science lab.

Yes, the computer core is indeed part of the solution. I also intend to allow it to be operated as a limited Science processing lab, which would not need any Kerbals is it's self awaire. The main purpose of the AI Computer Code is for deep space mission, like Pluto. Edited July 16, 2015 by FreeThinker

[ABZB]

You need to combine it with a pre cooler otherwise the air is too hot. The preecooler needs to be connected directly with the air intake, either inline or radialy

Does the pre-cooler need to be between the air intake and the engine at some point, or does the pre-cooler just need to be attached to the intake part in any way, without any parts in-between them?

[FreeThinker]

Does the pre-cooler need to be between the air intake and the engine at some point, or does the pre-cooler just need to be attached to the intake part in any way, without any parts in-between them?

No, It just needs to be attached to the inline intake or 2 radial attached intakes

Edited July 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

[gary85]

in atmospehere mode everything works fine in vaccum it overheats immediately i use liquid fuel.

gimme a sec i will post my plane here.

ok here

after i start it in the vaccum therma power goes to 0 and then temperature goes crazy.

http://speedy.sh/mcSfn/ssto-interstellar.craft

( dont mess with fuel loads or it will go unstable )

http://imgur.com/a/WOYe9#0

Edited July 16, 2015 by gary85

[ABZB]

The HexCanDeutTritLarge has the following error:

In the radioactive decay module, the decay-to resource is still:

decayProduct = LqdHelium3

instead of

decayProduct = LqdHe3

this is also the case for the two upgraded Large Fusion Reactor configs.

[FreeThinker]

The HexCanDeutTritLarge has the following error:

In the radioactive decay module, the decay-to resource is still:

decayProduct = LqdHelium3

instead of

decayProduct = LqdHe3

this is also the case for the two upgraded Large Fusion Reactor configs.

Good find.

- - - Updated - - -

in atmospehere mode everything works fine in vaccum it overheats immediately i use liquid fuel.

gimme a sec i will post my plane here.

ok here

after i start it in the vaccum therma power goes to 0 and then temperature goes crazy.

http://speedy.sh/mcSfn/ssto-interstellar.craft

( dont mess with fuel loads or it will go unstable )

http://imgur.com/a/WOYe9#0

Have you installed any real engine or heating mods?

Note that LiquidFuel contains Carbons, which clogs the heat eachanger which will cause overheating

To prevent overheating I advice to use clean propellants, like Ammonia, Hydrazine or Hydrogen

Edited July 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

[gary85]

no i olny use interstellar and mechjeb.

i cant use onther propelants cause they so inefficient i run out of fuel and have almost no delta-v outside of warp drive.

[FreeThinker]

I'm looking into Fusion reactors in more depth. Currently, the Magnetic Confinement reactor and Inertial Confinement reactor are identical in operation except for size. However in realiity there are big diferences which limit their operation. The problem is how a Magnetic Confinement reactor are supposed to effectively transfer its erergy into propellants and how Inertial Confinement can be used for the production of power Seems to me you cannot have it both ways like with Fission reactor which are much more flexable. I'm thinking about implementing an energy efficency limmitation for each fusion reactor where both would excel in one area. AIM would be able to do both but not as good as the the specialist. From a gameplay point of view this would be an improvement as each fusion reactor would have it's own niche, where now, inertal fusion only serves as the small version of the large fusion reactor.

Edited July 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

[bos]

One thing I've noticed is that radiators seem to (mostly) stop functioning and waste heat builds up when a (spherical) microwave receiver is functioning. The issue seems to be that the radiator's temperature drops immediately to around 1600K which greatly reduces its waste heat discharge rate. It returns to normal as soon as the receiver is deactivated. I suspect it has something to do with this:

if (vessel.HasAnyActiveThermalSources())

radiator_temperature_temp_val = (float)Math.Min(vessel.GetTemperatureofColdestThermalSource() / 1.01, radiator_temperature_temp_val);

Edited July 17, 2015 by bos

[FreeThinker]

One thing I've noticed is that radiators seem to (mostly) stop functioning and waste heat builds up when a microwave receiver is functioning. The issue seems to be that the radiator's temperature drops immediately to around 1500K which greatly reduces its waste heat discharge rate. I suspect it has something to do with this:

[TABLE=class: highlight tab-size js-file-line-container]

[TR]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line] if (vessel.HasAnyActiveThermalSources())[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line]radiator_temperature_temp_val = (float)Math.Min(vessel.GetTemperatureofColdestThermalSource() / 1.01, radiator_temperature_temp_val);[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-num js-line-number, align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

+1 Yes, this explains it. This code is to prevent radiator from reaching higher temperatures than the core temperature of reactors, but in the case of the Microwave reciever this might work counter intiutive due the varaible core temerature. Recievers that are active but not recieving signal, will have a very low core temperature, resulting in the above code reseting the radiator temperater, causing the whole system to overheat much faster.

Edited July 17, 2015 by FreeThinker

[bos]

Fortunately the microwave spherical receiver has a fairly large waste heat capacity -- well at least for my use powering probes -- so it takes awhile to overheat, even when powered. But it does mean toggling the receiver on/off to build up and release waste heat when using it to power a plasma thruster or something. Once the receiver is toggled off, the radiator jumps up to normal temp and the heat goes away quite quickly.

Edited July 17, 2015 by bos

[FreeThinker]

Fortunately the microwave spherical receiver has a fairly large waste heat capacity -- well at least for my use powering probes -- so it takes awhile to overheat, even when powered. But it does mean toggling the receiver on/off to build up and release waste heat when using it to power a plasma thruster or something. Once the receiver is toggled off, the radiator jumps up to normal temp and the heat goes away quite quickly.

I guess the easiest fix would be to ignore thermal power sources.

[Hazelnut]

Hi FreeThinker, been really enjoying using KSPI although I find I do have to spend hours figuring out what everything actually does / how much power / thrust I can get etc etc due to descriptions not being complete & unambiguous. Sometimes fun, and sometimes frustrating, but all in all the mod has kept my KSP career going after I quickly maxed the stock tree. Thank you for all your work.

Issues I've encountered:

- Using the deployable microwave transmitters to receive power on a craft, I have two to balance on robotic arms. Unfortunately when I enable the 2nd KSP grinds to a halt almost with 1 frame per 5 seconds. Any idea why that might happen?

- I tried the 2.5m ISRU on minmus to extract water and try to make H2 but it didn't seem to do anything. I figured it was because I had no water tank but the old docs say the ISRU can hold 10 units so maybe it wasn't that? Possibly I didn't leave it long enough but I wondered if this process works right now?

- The X24 tank doesn't act like a cryostat requiring power, and has 2 jettison buttons which appear to do nothing. It does have "Test" in the title so it may be unfinished. It's a shame because to keep part counts down this is the one I usually want to use for 1.25m stacks but I feel like it's cheating due to no boil off.

- The IR telescope doesn't seem to use up any helium. I have it on an X8 1.25m scale tank and it's still full after 100 days.

Hope that's helpful feedback. :-)

EDIT: Forgot one, the reactors (well dusty anyway) use no fuel when time accelerating. I took so much extra fuel and the reactor has used <1 unit in over 400 days. Is this intentional?

Edited July 17, 2015 by Hazelnut

[Weywot8]

I'm looking into Fusion reactors in more depth. Currently, the Magnetic Confinement reactor and Inertial Confinement reactor are identical in operation except for size. However in realiity there are big diferences which limit their operation. The problem is how a Magnetic Confinement reactor are supposed to effectively transfer its erergy into propellants and how Inertial Confinement can be used for the production of power Seems to me you cannot have it both ways like with Fission reactor which are much more flexable. I'm thinking about implementing an energy efficency limmitation for each fusion reactor where both would excel in one area. AIM would be able to do both but not as good as the the specialist. From a gameplay point of view this would be an improvement as each fusion reactor would have it's own niche, where now, inertal fusion only serves as the small version of the large fusion reactor.

Or an efficiency boost for the engine, when coupled to the right engine? Inertial confinement = Lasers (Pew-Pew) = Thermal Engine bonus. Magnetic confinement = Force (Use it Luke, Use the force) & Plasma = Magnetic/Ion Engine Bonus

Been rewatching Star Wars obviuosly.

[bos]

- I tried the 2.5m ISRU on minmus to extract water and try to make H2 but it didn't seem to do anything. I figured it was because I had no water tank but the old docs say the ISRU can hold 10 units so maybe it wasn't that? Possibly I didn't leave it long enough but I wondered if this process works right now?

A water tank (or fuel tank configured for water) is needed. You can test it a bit on kerbin by adding an atmospheric scoop to collect water.

[Hazelnut]

A water tank (or fuel tank configured for water) is needed. You can test it a bit on kerbin by adding an atmospheric scoop to collect water.

Thanks, good to know I don't have to use the 8t dedicated tank!

Also just realised now I'm at Jool that the Vista variable ISP doesn't affect the Duterium & Tritium usage.. and I measured just enough for the H2 at the low ISP and now don't have enough. I brought along 6 very heavy radial cryostats of Uranium for the Dusty reactor that I apparently don't need though... gahhhh. lol :-D

[FreeThinker]

I hope you are awaire I made interstellar fuel tank specifically for the purpose of IRSU flexible right? The Idea s to switch your empty tanks to a resource you can find in the wild and process it further or use it directly as a propellant.

- - - Updated - - -

- Using the deployable microwave transmitters to receive power on a craft, I have two to balance on robotic arms. Unfortunately when I enable the 2nd KSP grinds to a halt almost with 1 frame per 5 seconds. Any idea why that might happen?

Interesting issue, but no, I have no idea, but have you looked at the logs?

- - - Updated - - -

- The X24 tank doesn't act like a cryostat requiring power, and has 2 jettison buttons which appear to do nothing. It does have "Test" in the title so it may be unfinished. It's a shame because to keep part counts down this is the one I usually want to use for 1.25m stacks but I feel like it's cheating due to no boil off.

I think you mean the X48, as it was missing cryostat configs

Edited July 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[bos]

Thanks, good to know I don't have to use the 8t dedicated tank!

Yup, the benefit of the dedicated tank is it is cheaper in kerbal-bux for any given capacity (career mode). Remember it can be tweakscaled down to 1/1000 the mass & capacity, and also 90% of the 8t default mass is water that can just be emptied out in the VAB if you're not planning on making fuel by electrolysis en route.

Also just realised now I'm at Jool that the Vista variable ISP doesn't affect the Duterium & Tritium usage.. and I measured just enough for the H2 at the low ISP and now don't have enough. I brought along 6 very heavy radial cryostats of Uranium for the Dusty reactor that I apparently don't need though... gahhhh. lol :-D

Momentum = mass * velocity, so half the propellant requires twice the propellant velocity. But Energy = m * v^2, so half the propellant at twice the velocity requires twice the energy!

Edited July 18, 2015 by bos

[Hazelnut]

I hope you are awaire I made interstellar fuel tank specifically for the purpose of IRSU flexible right? The Idea s to switch your empty tanks to a resource you can find in the wild and process it further or use it directly as a propellant.

I hadn't realised that, I've been decoupling tanks without noticing the change contents buttons appear. That's great stuff.

Interesting issue, but no, I have no idea, but have you looked at the logs?

Nope, what logs? I looked around the filesystem for some logs and found nothing except the ones written when KSP crashes.

I think you mean the X48, as it was missing cryostat configs

Yep, that's the one. :-) (I will blame my age and memory for that slip up)

I now realised that Tritium is not supposed to be freely available in the VAB - you're supposed to take Lithium and breed the Tritium I think. I have been filling the DT tanks with Tritium using the slider. I realised this last night when I finally unlocked the antimatter containers. Plan to launch some to my station sci lab so it can start producing, but when I looked in the VAB I was able to fill containers with antimatter using the slider. Is this supposed to be prevented by the mod or are we supposed to be honorable and not cheat here?

EDIT: Just experimented with a solar collector and I think it's not so useful with the heating changes in KSP 1.0.4, I was following this page https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/Solar-power-satellites which talks about solar skimming orbits and producing 6.48GW which got me interested. I was using 4 massive blanket panels from NFT mod - equivalent to 80 gigantors. At 1500Mkm from kerbol the heating was too high to be sustainable and they only produced ~120MW anyway. This is easily beaten by launching a reactor, so I think solar power sats are impractical now unfortunately because it's a cool concept.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Hazelnut

[FreeThinker]

I now realised that Tritium is not supposed to be freely available in the VAB - you're supposed to take Lithium and breed the Tritium I think. I have been filling the DT tanks with Tritium using the slider. I realised this last night when I finally unlocked the antimatter containers. Plan to launch some to my station sci lab so it can start producing, but when I looked in the VAB I was able to fill containers with antimatter using the slider. Is this supposed to be prevented by the mod or are we supposed to be honorable and not cheat here?

Well, Tritium is very expansive, and therefore in career mode, you would cheat yourself if you buy all tritium in the VAB.

Note that currently the amount of Tritium you breed at a Deteurium-Tritium Fusion is 5 times as high as it should be. In the next update this will be corrected, along with other Fission/Fusion reactions. The Tritium Breeder is about 90% efficient. This means the Tritium Deuterium Fusion is at most 90% able to breed it's own Tritium from Lithium. The Remaining Tritium you need to breed in a Fission reactor, or Breed in Deuterium-Deteurium Fusion.

Also Note the Deteurium-Deteurium Breeding also creates Helium3, which is even harder get that Tritium.

Edited July 18, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Hazelnut]

Well, Tritium is very expansive, and therefore in career mode, you would cheat yourself if you buy all tritium in the VAB.

Note that currently the amount of Tritium you breed at a Deteurium-Tritium Fusion is 5 times as high as it should be. In the next update this will be corrected, along with other Fission/Fusion reactions. The Tritium Breeder is about 90% efficient. This means the Tritium Deuterium Fusion is at most 90% able to breed it's own Tritium from Lithium. The Remaining Tritium you need to breed in a Fission reactor, or Breed in Deuterium-Deteurium Fusion.

Also Note the Deteurium-Deteurium Breeding also creates Helium3, which is even harder get that Tritium.

I don't ever look at cost in my career save to be honest. Contracts give loads of easy money so since about 2/3rds the way through the stock techs I've had >3m cash at all times and right now have something like 12million so cost is not going to stop me filling up on Tritium unless its 1m / unit or something. I think if you make those breeding changes, it will be even harder to figure out what a craft needs to launch with without accurate info in game.

Is that the same for antimatter? I was under the impression that you had to collect or use a sci lab because it was simply unavailiable in VAB, but if I can buy it then why bother with the hassle of collection... :-) I may anyway since I've set up much of the infrastructure already.

Regarding the solar power satelite stuff, what I want is to get 2.5GW received power anywhere for the vista so they're not going to help given I would need 25 at least, probably more like 30+ given losses etc. Not a practical solution now we can't get very near the sun. More realistic I guess though.