KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Nansuchao]

Just now, SciMan said:

I'm still of the opinion that the DT-Vista isn't powerful enough to qualify as a torch drive.

However, the only thing it's missing is thrust.

I agree, there aren't engines powerful enough to be really useful. Maybe a Plasma Thruster without the energy cap would be a good start, what do you think about?

[Txzeenath]

49 minutes ago, SciMan said:

@FreeThinker

Why would someone need something that powerful?

What if someone doesn't want to use warp drives on cargo ships, but they still want the stuff to get there before KSP 1.2 is released? Warp drives should not have a monopoly on relatively rapid travel to very distant planets or other stars.

What if someone wants to move around a large class-D or any Class-E asteroid? How are they going to get enough thrust to move around the 800-2000 tons of mass those have? This task takes a lot of thrust no matter what the specific impulse may be. Using a magnetic nozzle would take a long time, probably months of in-game time.

 

My current mothership I'm working on is about 34k tons fully loaded (think star wars drone carrier ship). This is relevant to my interests :-p.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Txzeenath

[Liquid5n0w]

I must be missing something with regards to power production for microwave networks.  I have put up a moltensalt reactor and a gas core reactor.  I was under the impression generator efficiency was decided by the source temp vs the rad temp, but the gas core reactor with a core them of 30,000k is getting quite bad efficiency when I load it with radiators.  I am only getting 15% eff, but I was expecting something along the lines of 50% especially with the generator upgrade.  What am I doing wrong?

[SciMan]

@Nansuchao

I guess it would be a start, but I think we just need an engine that's expensive to operate, but has extremely high performance.

 

@FreeThinker

Regarding torch drives, I think an antimatter beam-core would work nicely.

Proposed stats:

• Diameters available - 5m, 7.5m, 10m, 20m
• Max thrust - 10,000 kilonewton at 5m diameter (10 meganewton)
• Specific impulse - 101,936.80s
• Engine mass - 10 metric tons (10,000 kg)
• Fuel - Antimatter
• Propellant: Hydrogen
• Rated power output - 5 Terawatts (5 million megawatts)
• Fuel consumption rate - ( 5 TW * 5.55e-15 mg/MW) / (1e-9 mg/unit) = 2.777e-8 mg/s / 1e-9 mg/unit = 277.77... units/s Antimatter
• Propellant consumption rate - 1 kg/s / 7.085e-5 kg/unit = 14,114 units/s Hydrogen

Source: Atomic Rockets

I had to make several tweaks to that in order to make it something that would fit well with KSPI-E.

• Reduced output power by 100x, 500tw would be very impractical to radiate.
• Reduced specific impulse by 100x, this is caused by reduction in output power.
• Increased propellant consumption 10x, keeps thrust high (Thrust = M dot x Vexhaust). Wanted to increase it 100x but tanks are too small even at largest scales.

There are 3 specs I want out of this engine; Thrust of 10MN or more, Weight of ~10 tons, and Specific Impulse of ~100,000 seconds.

I was juggling around the other stats to make those stats work as best I could. I may have missed something on the math, I only really took a lot of time on the fuel and propellant flow numbers.

 

This engine might not usually "need" the module that lets you thrust while in time warp, but I'd stick it in there anyways because a vessel with this kind of engine is likely going to be accelerating until halfway to its destination, flip around, then decelerate until it reaches its destination.

Edited June 6, 2016 by SciMan

[raxo2222]

What radiators are lightest per 1 GW of power emitted?

Edit: It would be nice to have fixed version on umbrella radiators for mothership.

Edited June 6, 2016 by raxo2222

[ss8913]

@FreeThinker - I'm having a bizarre problem that started 2 updates ago.  I've got some heavy (500 - 1300t) cargo SSTOs that have thermal ramjets, thermal turbojets, and ATILLA VTOL thrusters.  Lots of radiators of course.  SPH thermal helper says my radiators are at the upper range of the "yellow" which is usually sufficient.

I launch from SPH.  Especially if I'm using the ATILLA for vertical takeoff, wasteheat builds VERY fast and it overheats within 15 seconds or less.  If, at this point, I revert to launch, and do exactly the same thing... I get very little wasteheat and I could sit there and hover on the ATILLA thrusters all day with  no overheating.

I'm not sure which behavior is correct, but this happens every time I launch and.. well, one of those behaviors has to be wrong, doesn't it?

 

[nablabla]

hi there,

is there any kind of tutorial workshop or a forum where you can post and read other peoples experience with the kspie parts? Like which part did you use to do what and whats the crafts mass etc.

there is no (not-outdated) tutorial on youtube or anywhere else.

The tutorial page is incomplete and only tells you how to read the specs. I tried out thermal turbojet and the thermal ramjet nozzle on some spaceplanes without much succes, it is not providing thrust at sea level, bad performance in flight or not really overwhelming performance in space. Either use huge hydrogen-tanks for 700s or only something within 450-550s, so the NERVA or candle is still much better also because it's lighter and much less complex.

Also I find that the closed cycle gas core (or even the open cycle gas core) is waay more efficient than the nozzles with any reactor and very easy to handle and also reasonably cheap. I So I build either a launcher or a spaceplane with a turbojet and just use the bulb. I can also think of a useful ship using the direct cycle nuclear jet. But is there anything useful I can do with the molten salt reactor and particle bed reactor?  

As of yet I only have "Improved Nucular Powder" and "High efficiency Nuclear Propulsion" unlocked

[nablabla]

okay two more things:
1) I bought the science lab upgrade now there appeared a second one, I bought that too, now there is a third one :/ in the node "Scientific Outposts"

2) I cannot use the IR Telescope. It does nothing, I found in the wiki (https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/wiki/IR-Telescope) that it needs a helium cryostate next to it. But nowhere in the game there is mentioned anything about that matter. Also there is no helium (crystate) tank.

[FreeThinker]

23 hours ago, raxo2222 said:

 

Also tiny resource tanks being part of ISRU (just like in QSR) would be very useful.

They could hold 10 different resources just like in that screenshot:

Instead of fixed resource tank I rather prefer switchable fuel tanks.

10 hours ago, ss8913 said:

@FreeThinker - I'm having a bizarre problem that started 2 updates ago.  I've got some heavy (500 - 1300t) cargo SSTOs that have thermal ramjets, thermal turbojets, and ATILLA VTOL thrusters.  Lots of radiators of course.  SPH thermal helper says my radiators are at the upper range of the "yellow" which is usually sufficient.

I launch from SPH.  Especially if I'm using the ATILLA for vertical takeoff, wasteheat builds VERY fast and it overheats within 15 seconds or less.  If, at this point, I revert to launch, and do exactly the same thing... I get very little wasteheat and I could sit there and hover on the ATILLA thrusters all day with  no overheating.

I'm not sure which behavior is correct, but this happens every time I launch and.. well, one of those behaviors has to be wrong, doesn't it?

 

Weird indeed. It almost sound if something went wrong durring scaling. Next time this happens, please take note of the surface area of thr radiators and temperature. It determines how effective you will be able to lose your wasteheat

[FreeThinker]

14 hours ago, raxo2222 said:

What radiators are lightest per 1 GW of power emitted?

Edit: It would be nice to have fixed version on umbrella radiators for mothership.

In terms of radiator / mass the graphite surface radiator are the lightest followed by the large static grapjiye radiatiors and the unbrella radiator.

By fixed umbella you mean a non foldable version? It would be a great idea to be able to configure it in the VAB and recieve a mass reduction.

Edited June 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[raxo2222]

19 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

In terms of mass the graphite surface radiator are the lightest followed by the large static grapjiye radiatiors and the unbrella radiator.

By fixed umbella you mean a non foldable version? It would be a great idea to be able to configure it in the VAB and recieve a mass reduction.

Yep fixed = not foldable.

[FreeThinker]

15 hours ago, SciMan said:

@Nansuchao

I guess it would be a start, but I think we just need an engine that's expensive to operate, but has extremely high performance.

 

@FreeThinker

Regarding torch drives, I think an antimatter beam-core would work nicely.

Proposed stats:

• Diameters available - 5m, 7.5m, 10m, 20m
• Max thrust - 10,000 kilonewton at 5m diameter (10 meganewton)
• Specific impulse - 101,936.80s
• Engine mass - 10 metric tons (10,000 kg)
• Fuel - Antimatter
• Propellant: Hydrogen
• Rated power output - 5 Terawatts (5 million megawatts)
• Fuel consumption rate - ( 5 TW * 5.55e-15 mg/MW) / (1e-9 mg/unit) = 2.777e-8 mg/s / 1e-9 mg/unit = 277.77... units/s Antimatter
• Propellant consumption rate - 1 kg/s / 7.085e-5 kg/unit = 14,114 units/s Hydrogen

Source: Atomic Rockets

I had to make several tweaks to that in order to make it something that would fit well with KSPI-E.

• Reduced output power by 100x, 500tw would be very impractical to radiate.
• Reduced specific impulse by 100x, this is caused by reduction in output power.
• Increased propellant consumption 10x, keeps thrust high (Thrust = M dot x Vexhaust). Wanted to increase it 100x but tanks are too small even at largest scales.

There are 3 specs I want out of this engine; Thrust of 10MN or more, Weight of ~10 tons, and Specific Impulse of ~100,000 seconds.

I was juggling around the other stats to make those stats work as best I could. I may have missed something on the math, I only really took a lot of time on the fuel and propellant flow numbers.

 

This engine might not usually "need" the module that lets you thrust while in time warp, but I'd stick it in there anyways because a vessel with this kind of engine is likely going to be accelerating until halfway to its destination, flip around, then decelerate until it reaches its destination.

Intresting ideas. I want to incorperate it as an advanced fuel mode in the upcomming Deadalus fusion engine. Intially it will be D-He3 fusion but with Antimatter unlocked a Helium3 Antimatter mode which come available which will have the performance characteristics you propose. The purpose of the engine will be as a pre warp ship enginee capable of traveling to nearby stars within a year. The same engine will also allow the Vista engine to run on more economical fuels like pure Deteurium and Lithium-Deuterium

Edited June 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

17 hours ago, Liquid5n0w said:

I must be missing something with regards to power production for microwave networks.  I have put up a moltensalt reactor and a gas core reactor.  I was under the impression generator efficiency was decided by the source temp vs the rad temp, but the gas core reactor with a core them of 30,000k is getting quite bad efficiency when I load it with radiators.  I am only getting 15% eff, but I was expecting something along the lines of 50% especially with the generator upgrade.  What am I doing wrong?

Due to the extreme high temperatures, Gas core reactors can only run in thermal electric mode, which is a lot less efficient. The Gas core reactor offers high thrust combined with a relatively High Isp. They should be ideal for manned missions in the inner solar system.

Edited June 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[phoenix_ca]

Has anyone tried using KSP TOT to plan missions for ships using KSPI-E engines? Specifically the ones with weird new fuels (not LFO, Monoprop, or Xenon), or variable ISP (or Q thrusters that don't use on-board propellant at all). I made a post asking about this but maybe someone else here is already using it effectively. I see nothing but hurdles and by-hand math in my future if I'm going to try getting the Mission Architect to work right.

 

[Sereneti]

i had managed to put a satelit (with some solar-panels and a big Microwave transmitter in a low-solar-orbit).
Is there a option to use the microwave-energy to accelerate atmosphere as working-mass?

it looks like, i can only use fuel as working-mass  if i want to use electrical energy...

[Txzeenath]

13 minutes ago, Sereneti said:

i had managed to put a satelit (with some solar-panels and a big Microwave transmitter in a low-solar-orbit).
Is there a option to use the microwave-energy to accelerate atmosphere as working-mass?

it looks like, i can only use fuel as working-mass  if i want to use electrical energy...

Most of the engines can use atmosphere as a propellant, but you need air intakes. I'm guessing you don't have air intakes so it won't show as a valid source. Plasma is good for this, since it can use atmosphere and then switch to vacuum mode. No fuel needed. You just need a lot of power.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Txzeenath

[Drelam]

I must say i have always been fascinated of this mod.

As much as i admire the energy and sense of detail of this mod, i must admit it's a bit overwhelming and i always failed to make some use of it in game.

Don't get me wrong i'm not complaining about the mod being too complex, i just miss some simple examples for beginners like me to understand how things work on a very basic level.

I have read the KSPI-E Beginers Guide  and some of the KSPI-E Wiki. But i still fail to create something that works. Most of the time the combinations of reactor/generator and engine simply does not produce any thrust or fails because of some other unknown reason. Usually after a couple of frustrating hours of experimenting and shamefully failing, i remove the mod from my game because of pure frustration. (which is a pity, because this mod is exactly what i am looking for, except that i'm just too stupid for it, lol)

I know how all this must sound to you and i'm was wrestling with myself for a quite a while if i should write this at all, but i would really appreciate any tips that could help or (very simple) examples of working configurations...

Edited June 7, 2016 by Drelam

[FreeThinker]

2 hours ago, Drelam said:

I must say i have always been fascinated of this mod.

As much as i admire the energy and sense of detail of this mod, i must admit it's a bit overwhelming and i always failed to make some use of it in game.

Don't get me wrong i'm not complaining about the mod being too complex, i just miss some simple examples for beginners like me to understand how things work on a very basic level.

I have read the KSPI-E Beginers Guide  and some of the KSPI-E Wiki. But i still fail to create something that works. Most of the time the combinations of reactor/generator and engine simply does not produce any thrust or fails because of some other unknown reason. Usually after a couple of frustrating hours of experimenting and shamefully failing, i remove the mod from my game because of pure frustration. (which is a pity, because this mod is exactly what i am looking for, except that i'm just too stupid for it, lol)

I know how all this must sound to you and i'm was wrestling with myself for a quite a while if i should write this at all, but i would really appreciate any tips that could help or (very simple) examples of working configurations...

I understand where you are coming from at first I found KSPI also quite complicated as well. I wish I could direct you to some good Instructional video, but the existing ones are kind of out of date. Although they are still relevant, they also contain false information which tend to confuse player into making the wrong assumptions when playing.

I would love to create some up to date video myself but I have neither the skill nor the time. The truth is that I'm hopping someone can create some good up to date tutorials for KSPI-E which I can incorporate into wiki and first page. I simply don't have the time to do it myself. Preferable it would be someone with a good understanding of KSPI-E with first hand experience and understand the many intricacies of parts, both they advantages and disadvantages.

Edited June 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Drelam]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

I understand where you are coming from at first I found KSPI also quite complicated as well. I wish I could direct you to some good Instructional video, but the existing ones are kind of out of date. Although they are still relevant, they also contain false information which tend to confuse player into making the wrong assumptions when playing.

I would love to create some up to date video myself but I have neither the skill nor the time. The truth is that I'm hopping someone can create some good up to date tutorials for KSPI-E which I can incorporate into wiki and first page. I simply don't have the time to do it myself. Preferable it would be someone with a good understanding of KSPI-E with first hand experience and understand the many intricacies of part, both they advantages and disadvantages.

It doesn't have to be a elaborated video. (i'm not a fan of watching videos just to get an answer that could be made with a few written words.)

For example, i think what would help me the most would be a simple list of things to get engine X to work, plain and simple.

Like, what does it need to get the ATTILA thruster to work? What kind of fuel or reactor does it need? Is there a electrical generator required? How do these things have to be arranged to work properly?

 

I noticed that most guides go far to much into details, without clearing up the basics first. (at least that's my impression)

What would also help would be some hints in game

What i mean is, it's certainly interesting and helpful for a advanced player to see how efficient reactor X is, but it's not very helpful if you have no clue what to do with it in the first place.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Drelam

[Txzeenath]

1 hour ago, Drelam said:

Like, what does it need to get the ATTILA thruster to work? What kind of fuel or reactor does it need? Is there a electrical generator required? How do these things have to be arranged to work properly?

Part of that you can see by looking at the info tab on the part. If it requires MW/MJ, you need generators. If it requires heat, you need to attach it to a high temperature reactor, or a microwave thermal receiver (I believe charged particles can also be converted to heat, but I can't recall).

 

ATILLA is an electric engine, so your best combo IMO would be a reactor with high charged particle output, a charged particle electric generator, some radiators, and your engine.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Txzeenath

[Nansuchao]

@FreeThinker I'm trying to write a simple guide to the Interstellar Extended engines. I have already covered the built-in reactor engines, the thermal engines and now it's the time of the electric engines. I know very well the old Interstellar engines, D-T Vista, Plasma, Magnetic Nozzle and the Vasmir, but I need some info from you regarding the Tokamak engines and the new Magnetic Confinement engine, I'm not sure to know hot to have the best from them still.

[raxo2222]

8 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Instead of fixed resource tank I rather prefer switchable fuel tanks.

I meant internal resource tank in ISRU, just like reactors. Or upcoming particle accelerator or something else you plan to create.

It could carry 1 or 10 units of every gas/liquid, that ISRU can process.  This way I could use air scoops/liquid pumps (drills could have liquid mode on certian upgrade) without external tanks.

Also ISRU should be able to produce liquid fuel/oxidizer/monopropellant

Edited June 7, 2016 by raxo2222

[FreeThinker]

On Monday, June 06, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Liquid5n0w said:

I must be missing something with regards to power production for microwave networks.  I have put up a moltensalt reactor and a gas core reactor.  I was under the impression generator efficiency was decided by the source temp vs the rad temp, but the gas core reactor with a core them of 30,000k is getting quite bad efficiency when I load it with radiators.  I am only getting 15% eff, but I was expecting something along the lines of 50% especially with the generator upgrade.  What am I doing wrong?

Due to the extreme high temperature, Gas core reactors can only run in thermal electric mode, which is a lot less efficient. The Gad core reactor offer high thrust combined with a relatively High Isp. They should be ideal for manned missions in the inner solar system.

[FreeThinker]

4 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

@FreeThinker I'm trying to write a simple guide to the Interstellar Extended engines. I have already covered the built-in reactor engines, the thermal engines and now it's the time of the electric engines. I know very well the old Interstellar engines, D-T Vista, Plasma, Magnetic Nozzle and the Vasmir, but I need some info from you regarding the Tokamak engines and the new Magnetic Confinement engine, I'm not sure to know hot to have the best from them still.

The Magneto Inertial Confinement engine is the first realistic Fusion rocket available with fusion rocketry. It offers higher Isp than the nuclear gas core reactor at the expense of power level. In comperison to the much bigger Magnetic Confinement Fusion reactor it is less flexable as it is only suitable for propulsion. On the other hand it Q factor is much higher ( it requires less mainenance power). Because the fusion is pulsed, it power requirement can be adjusted. As propellant it requires Lithium which allows effective conversion of fusion power, including fast neutrons into effective propulsion at a high Isp.

Because it is open cycle system, wasteheat is minimised which makes the overall system less massive than its big cosin. The disadvantage of open cycle however is that fuel efficency isn't 100% as part of fusion fuel is never fused durring ignition. To use the engine you only need low power external power source like a small molten salt reactor or magnetised target fusion reactor.

Edited June 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[SciMan]

@FreeThinker

I think the idea to add tiny "buffer tank" resource storage for the resources the KSPI ISRU takes as input or output is a good idea, and I have several reasons.

Currently, anything that uses a KSPI ISRU is going to need a bunch of tanks to hold the "middle step" resources.
These tanks serve no purpose other than buffering the resources between different ISRU processes.
In other words, these tanks are basically the plumbing from one ISRU process to another.

These tanks don't have to be very large. In fact, large tanks for intermediate products add dry mass to the entire system for no real benefit.
Small tanks of 1, 10, or 100 units per resource would be more than enough. The tanks don't need to store a "useful" amount of anything, they just have to exist.

Most of the time, the player has no use for the intermediate products of the refining process used to get from source materials to the resource they want.

In that photo, you yourself are using tanks that contain 5 resources each.
I can't make tanks like that with KSPI-E. Neither can anyone else without downloading another mod besides the ones included in KSPI-E.
We have to use 11 individual parts to do what you did in 3.

The proposal is to cut that down to ONE part. This is an easy task, I'm already writing a MM patch for it for myself.