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KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread


FreeThinker

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11 hours ago, raxo2222 said:

Hmm design doesn't look very areodynamic.

 

 

perhaps, but that doesn't mean it is a big deal. What is a big deal it it's efficiency, which is important if you want to build a planetary SSTO. Paired with a Magnetic Target Fusion reactor, a Thermal turbo and 2 radially attached electric engines  and a few wings and skin radiators and you a have a winning combination of a vessel that can get you everywhere in the solar system.

Edited by FreeThinker
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12 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

 

perhaps, but that doesn't mean it is a big deal. What is a big deal it it's efficiency, which is important if you want to build a planetary SSTO. Paired with a Magnetic Target Fusion reactor, a Thermal turbo and 2 radially attached electric engines  and a few wings and skin radiators and you a have a winning combination of a vessel that can get you everywhere in the solar system.

well electric engines gets terrible TWR with this fusion reactor  - only antimatter reactor with thermal and charged particles of equal size can fully power VASMIR, and I need bigger antimatter reactors to power MPD or ARCJET.

Otherwise I would need to use thermal engines for launching and climbing to orbit/descending and landing on heavier moons/planets.

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17 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

well electric engines gets terrible TWR with this fusion reactor  - only antimatter reactor with thermal and charged particles of equal size can fully power VASMIR, and I need bigger antimatter reactors to power MPD or ARCJET.

Otherwise I would need to use thermal engines for launching and climbing to orbit/descending and landing on heavier moons/planets.

Electric engines are better suited for orbital operations, lifting or landing are something unusual for them. 

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6 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

Electric engines are better suited for orbital operations, lifting or landing are something unusual for them. 

Indeed, next patch I want to focus a bit more electric engines , at least allow them to function with persistent thrust.. That how these engines are supposed to work anyway.

Edited by FreeThinker
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I have 3 suggestions:

First one: Add missing resources to all standard (these ones with X and number in their names) tanks:

Liquid fuel,Oxidizer,LFO, monopropellant, diborane, kerosene, helium. In one of tanks HTP is missing.

 

Second one: Add Radioactive Material Holding Tank (based on universal holding tank).

It could contain UF4, Th4, UraniumNitride, EnrichedUranium, Depleted Fuel and Actinides. By default if tank is set to contain depleted fuel or actinides, then it should be empty.

 

Third one: Update MFT confing - its missing UF4/Kerosene/Diborane

I posted here MFT table containing these missing resources.

 

Spoiler

// Modular Fuel Tanks Config by Trolllception

    @TANK_DEFINITION[Default,Fuselage,Balloon,Structural]
        {
                TANK
                {
                        name = ArgonGas
                        mass = 0.000625
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 56.0
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = HTP
                        amount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = KryptonGas
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = NeonGas
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Hydrazine
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdHydrogen
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdAmmonia
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdNitrogen
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }        
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdCO
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdOxygen
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdMethane
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdCO2
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Lithium
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdDeuterium
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .7
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdTritium
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .8
                        note = (Shielded)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdHelium
                        mass = 0.000625
                        utilization = 56
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        fillable = false
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = EnrichedUranium
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .8
                        note = (Shielded)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = ThF4
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .8
                        note = (Shielded)
                }

                TANK
                {
                        name = UF4
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .8
                        note = (Shielded)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = UraniumNitride
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = .1
                        note = (Shielded)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdHelium
                        mass = 0.000454
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        loss_rate = 1.667794e-8
                        utilization = 7
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Actinides
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = DepletedFuel
                        mass = 0.00009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        fillable = false
                        utilization = .8
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Water
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdHe3
                        mass = 0.000625
                        utilization = 19
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        loss_rate = 1.667794e-7
                        note = (refrigated)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Boron
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Ore
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Aluminium
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Alumina
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Hexaborane
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = SaltWater
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = HeavyWater
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Uraninite
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }                    
                TANK
                {
                        name = Hydrates
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Lithium6
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Monazite
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Silicates
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = Borate
                        mass = 0.0009
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = SolarWind
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 2.205
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }                
                TANK
                {
                        name = Diborane
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
               TANK
                {
                        name = Kerosene
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        utilization = 5.41
                }
        }        
    @TANK_DEFINITION[Xenon]
        {
                TANK
                {
                        name = ArgonGas
                        //mass = 0.000625
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdHelium
                        //mass = 0.000625
                        utilization = 2
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        fillable = false
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = HTP
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = KryptonGas
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
                TANK
                {
                        name = NeonGas
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        note = (pressurized)
                }
        }

    @TANK_DEFINITION[ServiceModule]
        {
                TANK
                {
                        name = LqdMethane
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                        note = (Refrigerated)
                }
        }

    @TANK_DEFINITION[RCS]
        {
                TANK
                {
                        name = Hydrazine
                        amount = 0.0
                        maxAmount = 0.0
                }
        }

 

I guess this mod is too resourceful for you, since its seems to be hard to track all resource additions.

Edited by raxo2222
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@FreeThinker - new... something.. going on, not sure what.  I set up a ship that should have been able to cool itself just fine, but it overheated within seconds... so I look in the VAB and notice that all my graphene radiators are showing up as Mk2 not Mk5.  I have the entire CTT unlocked, and this hasn't been a problem until today..  any ideas?  I don't see any errors in the log regarding this part (Umbrella radiator or the large aero radiators, using both on this ship).

I'm also curious as to why the propellant type matters - even on a ship where VAB/SPH say 'green' on maximum dissipation... running, say, an ATILLA on Atmospheric or LiquidFuel, (2.5m engine, 2.5m charged particle gen, 2.5m antimatter reactor), will cause the ship to overheat.  Using hydrazine, it does not.  Not sure I understand what's going on there.

UPDATE: Looked in the part configs, double verified that all of the required science nodes are unlocked for Mk5 - since they're all unlocked.  logs show it checking for all 5 levels successfully too.  but on this particular ship i'm only getting 0.5gw per 100%-scale winged-edge radiator and that clearly isn't right.

UPDATE: It's the molten salt reactor.  I'm not sure why or how, but I did the following experiment:

1. set up a craft that's just an AI module and a fuel tank.  attach 8 winged edge radiators at  normal (100%) scale.  VAB thermal helper claims total dissipation = 43.5 GW
2. add a 2.5m (normal) molten salt reactor fueled by ThF4
3. Radiator max dissipation drops instantly to 3.72GW in the thermal helper window

am I missing something here?  Antimatter reactors don't do this.  will check the others.

Edited by ss8913
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6 hours ago, ss8913 said:

@FreeThinker - new... something.. going on, not sure what.  I set up a ship that should have been able to cool itself just fine, but it overheated within seconds... so I look in the VAB and notice that all my graphene radiators are showing up as Mk2 not Mk5.  I have the entire CTT unlocked, and this hasn't been a problem until today..  any ideas?  I don't see any errors in the log regarding this part (Umbrella radiator or the large aero radiators, using both on this ship).

I'm also curious as to why the propellant type matters - even on a ship where VAB/SPH say 'green' on maximum dissipation... running, say, an ATILLA on Atmospheric or LiquidFuel, (2.5m engine, 2.5m charged particle gen, 2.5m antimatter reactor), will cause the ship to overheat.  Using hydrazine, it does not.  Not sure I understand what's going on there.

UPDATE: Looked in the part configs, double verified that all of the required science nodes are unlocked for Mk5 - since they're all unlocked.  logs show it checking for all 5 levels successfully too.  but on this particular ship i'm only getting 0.5gw per 100%-scale winged-edge radiator and that clearly isn't right.

UPDATE: It's the molten salt reactor.  I'm not sure why or how, but I did the following experiment:

1. set up a craft that's just an AI module and a fuel tank.  attach 8 winged edge radiators at  normal (100%) scale.  VAB thermal helper claims total dissipation = 43.5 GW
2. add a 2.5m (normal) molten salt reactor fueled by ThF4
3. Radiator max dissipation drops instantly to 3.72GW in the thermal helper window

am I missing something here?  Antimatter reactors don't do this.  will check the others.

The reason you see this behaviour is that the thermalhelper still thinks the maximum temperator of the radiator is limited by the lowest core temperature of all reactors, which is no longer the case. This is to allow you to use a nuclear reactor combined with an antimatter reactor. The Nuclear reactor would provide power to secondary systems like cryo storage and lifesupport,  while not using propulsion while the would become ineeffective/disabled when the antimatter kicked into action requiring much higher radiator temperatures

Edited by FreeThinker
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Hey, for anyone playing KSPI-E,

I would like to know what do you think about the new mechanics, engines and reactors that recently has been added.

I would like to know of any imbalances or problems you encountered which should be addresed.

Edited by FreeThinker
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On 25-7-2016 at 1:39 AM, Titan 3000 said:

I actually really like the MCF reactor. In my opinion it is one of the most realistic ways to create a realistic fusion reactor.

The MCF reactor is indeed  still one of the best reactor, despite not getting much attention. It one of the most versitile reactors in KSP as it can be used for both propulsion as power production. It's however also one of the more complicated reactors, due to it's physical nature, they are Big  and expansive, which makes them unsuitable for use as SSTO (although if you realy want to, I guess you could). Also for many short durration mission, like a trip to Duna, there are many reactor which can do a better Job for lower cost. Where it should shine are will Grand tour missions, where it is important the reactor can operate in a wide variarity of environments.

Edited by FreeThinker
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3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Hey, for anyone playing KSPI-E,

I would like to know what do you think about the new mechanics, engines and reactors that recently has been added.

I would like to know of any imbalances or problems you encountered which should be addresed.

Well some fuels are missing in standard fuel tank, there is no dedicated storage for radioactive resources, and MFT patch is missing few resources.

I posted suggestion above.

 

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33 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

Well some fuels are missing in standard fuel tank, there is no dedicated storage for radioactive resources, and MFT patch is missing few resources.

I posted suggestion above.

Noted, I will add them next patch. Now do you think anything else missing besides storage?

Edited by FreeThinker
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49 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Noted, I will add them next patch. Now do you think anything else missing besides storage?

Hmmmm 3.75m and 5m electrical engines would be nice - I'm not counting atilla - VASMIR and MPD are rescalable to 2.5m.

What about improved version of quantum vacuum plasma engine? It could be perfect addition to QSR reactor.

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4 hours ago, raxo2222 said:

What about improved version of quantum vacuum plasma engine? It could be perfect addition to QSR reactor.

Well the truth is that I always had my doubts about vacuum plasma engine. For realsim reasons as it reactionless nature, it defies clasical reaction propulsion, and for game balance reasons as it is hard to fit in exisitng propulsion methods. It is something of a excption. From my understanding one of the main problems is that is doen't scale well with higher amounts of power. Allhough it might keep a vessel in orbit , at higher power levels it becomes as efficient as a photon engine, meaning it need 300 MW for 1 newton of thrust. So it would be able to make maintenance a lot cheaper, it will not be very suitable to exploration.

I do however have some ideas for new electric engine which would fit well the SQR reactor, a Plasma Wake Field Accelerator, a kind of Plasma Engine on steriods with a very wide variable Isp. This isn't as Sci Fi as it seems as all it takes are very powerfull magnetic field to accelerate charged particles to speeds close to the speed of light like achieved in a particle accelerator. Alternatively, the engine would lower it's Isp to levels allowing it to even function in atmospheres. In many respect, the engine would be similar to a startrek Impulse Engine.  I believe this would be an appropiate end game propulsion engine

Edited by FreeThinker
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7 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Hey, for anyone playing KSPI-E,

I would like to know what do you think about the new mechanics, engines and reactors that recently has been added.

I would like to know of any imbalances or problems you encountered which should be addresed.

I like it a lot overall, it is reasonably complete and consistent and just what KSP needs (especially with RSS), but it is a bit too focused. And I do have some general suggestions.

 

1. Magnetic nozzles / containment is an iffy concept. It requires protons (or anti-protons), and won't really work with plasma (positive and negative particles together). And it is problematic if you only expel the protons, while keeping the electrons aboard (or the other way around).

Then again, it's the throwing away of mass that provides the thrust, not the bouncing against the nozzle walls. So magnetic nozzles don't actually have to be nozzle-shaped. They should be like a short magnetic accelerator. Or actually: two, one for the positive stream and one for the negative. Mixing those at the end is optional. Superconductors are mandatory.

Things like NERVA / DOMBO / pebble bed / salt water / Orion / plasma drive / ion drive / inertial fusion / VISTA certainly could work, but most of the others require magnetic containment (and often impossible materials as well, like with a nuclear lightbulb). VASIMIR is certainly one of the worst in that respect.

And the main problem (after getting rid of the waste heat) is of course how to extract thrust and/or electricity from neutrons and gamma rays.

If someone can think of some sexy drive or reactor, doesn't mean that it is actually build-able. Publishing a design doesn't magically make it work. They might say they're just unobtainium instead of handwavium, but requiring magnetic containment isn't helping their case, IMO.

But anti-matter drives could certainly work if you use magnetic bottles with anti-protons as Orion charges. Just turn off the power and it blows. You wouldn't have a storage ring, but a storage facility filled with small anti-matter bombs, all hooked up to an electric power source.

Essentially, that leaves three types: heaters (NERVA), bomb-powered (VISTA) and accelerators (ion / magnetic).

 

2. There is a gap between chemical and nuclear propulsion (mostly for liftoff), and chemical can still be improved quite a bit as well. And the easiest way to do that is to detonate the fuel / oxidizer mixture, instead of simply burning it. The best example is a pulse detonation engine, but a SCRAM variant would work as well.

Both have been done in the laboratory and they actually work. They just make a whole lot of noise and have a tendency to blow up. They're about as mature as NERVA.

 

3. For any space industry, we would want to capture asteroids with a lot of water. Most of the rest of the mass is not very usable without heavy processing, but could be used to move the asteroid around: pellet guns / linear accelerators. Especially because most of them probably consist of gravel, optionally glued together with water.

 

4. And it's probably outside the scope of the mod to use that water as the hull as well. Because the easiest way to store it is inside a plastic bag, as ice. Reinforced ice is a great building material / micro-meteorite shield. And it's far easier to launch some plastic and composites into orbit than a hull and fuel tanks.

 

But overall, this mod, MechJeb and Joint Reinforcer are the only essential mods for me. And you're doing it great.

 

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

By the way, I'm looking for a writer can can come up with some funny Kerbal like descriptions for a the parts in KSP. Anyone intrested?

I'll think about it. I want to rewrite your introduction in the first post as well, because it's full of spelling errors.

Edited by SymbolicFrank
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I disagree with the Time Dilation added in the last update. First, is just a theory, second it is correct jsut for an external observer. If I control a ship I will no have Time Dilation at all. In theory I will notice it just if looking at the ship from the tracking station.

Btw, soon I'll launch a Interstellar probe with the Daedalus engine and the new reactor. I'm very curious to see what will happen.

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13 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

I disagree with the Time Dilation added in the last update. First, is just a theory, second it is correct jsut for an external observer. If I control a ship I will no have Time Dilation at all. In theory I will notice it just if looking at the ship from the tracking station.

Btw, soon I'll launch a Interstellar probe with the Daedalus engine and the new reactor. I'm very curious to see what will happen.

theory in causal speech is same thing as hypothesis in physics.

Theory in physics is actually fact in causal speech.

I'm going to float around, since gravity is not working. Or not since quantum mechanics is only theory and atoms cant exist without it.

Edited by raxo2222
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10 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

I disagree with the Time Dilation added in the last update. First, is just a theory, second it is correct jsut for an external observer. If I control a ship I will no have Time Dilation at all. In theory I will notice it just if looking at the ship from the tracking station.

Btw, soon I'll launch a Interstellar probe with the Daedalus engine and the new reactor. I'm very curious to see what will happen.

Well I assume that in Ksp you are always an external observer, or more correctly a mission controller. Relativity is a realistic method of creating a soft limit to Slower than light travel. Note that I still need to add Time dialation effect to other parts of the vessel, like reactor fuel consumption. I talk to the developer of Kerbalism  to implement the effects Time Dilation as well, causing to use less resources and age slower.

Edited by FreeThinker
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4 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

theory in causal speech is same thing as hypothesis in physics.

Theory in physics is actually fact in causal speech.

I'm going to float around, since gravity is not working. Or not since quantum mechanics is only theory and atoms cant exist without it.

It was just a personal opinion. In real life I hate that part of the Einstein theory and I hope that soon it will be invalidate.

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21 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

I disagree with the Time Dilation added in the last update. First, is just a theory, second it is correct jsut for an external observer. If I control a ship I will no have Time Dilation at all. In theory I will notice it just if looking at the ship from the tracking station.

Btw, soon I'll launch a Interstellar probe with the Daedalus engine and the new reactor. I'm very curious to see what will happen.

Time dilation is not exactly what really stops you from reaching light-speed, as you approach 1C your mass increases until you "weigh" infinite amounts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity 

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40 minutes ago, Profit- said:

Time dilation is not exactly what really stops you from reaching light-speed, as you approach 1C your mass increases until you "weigh" infinite amounts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity 

No that just relativistic mass. From the perspective of the space ship, you are not gaining any mass, it will still be able to rotate the ship with the same amount of speed, it's just your mass from an external observer will appear to increase..

Edited by FreeThinker
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2 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

No that just relativistic mass. From the perspective of the space chip, you are not gaining any mass, it will still be able to rotate the ship with the same amount of speed, it's just your mass from an external observer at rest.

Hmm I did not know that, but still it becomes crazy if you think about some of the limits of that.   A ship traveling near light speed would appear to the rest of the universe as an unbelievably large black hole.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9909/9909014v1.pdf

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40 minutes ago, Profit- said:

Hmm I did not know that, but still it becomes crazy if you think about some of the limits of that.   A ship traveling near light speed would appear to the rest of the universe as an unbelievably large black hole.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9909/9909014v1.pdf

Yes it's like a mass battery, it would be the ultimate weapons if you use it to crash on a planet/moon.

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