KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[barfing_skull]

Greeting!

 

I upgraded to 1.12.12 from 1.12.11 on CKAN.  However, it appears my graphene radiators on existing vessels have stopped cooling NearFuture reactors.  I haven't tried this on other parts, so I don't know if it's a cross-mod thing or if the config for the graphene radiators is having problems everywhere.

 

I downgraded to 1.12.11 and low and behold, the radiators cool my reactors again.  No other changes to other mods, so I'm pretty sure this is the culprit.

 

I did a diff and the only significant thing I can find for the radiators was this in the config, something similar for most of the radiators:

18c18
< 	title = Graphene Radiator Folding Medium
---
> 	title = Graphite Radiator Folding Medium
83d82
< 		areaMultiplierAtmosphere = 1

The "areaMultiplerAtmosphere" is new, so I'm guessing that's causing the problem.  My vessels were not in any atmosphere.

Thoughts, or am I off base here?

Cheers,

-BS

[FreeThinker]

16 hours ago, Djohaal said:

So on my latest beamed power station I noticed only one-fourth of the effective juice is being turned into power, as expected from the efficiency ratings. Now the question is, where does the rest of the power go? Shouldn't that also be dissipated by radiators, or is that already taken into account.

Also I reiterate my commentary that radiators don't seem to trigger glow animations when radiating KSPI-e heat, only vanilla heat (somehow)

 

 

 

 

There could be many reasons why you only receive 25% percent of the originally beamed power but in short each step from electric generated power to final effective received power can decrease efficiency. It start with converting electric power to beamed power, the shorter the wavelength, the less efficient this is. When the beam of power travels though the atmosphere, depending on the atmospheric depth and thickness, climate and wavelength a big or small percentage of all beamed energy gets absorbed. The when the beamed power is finally received, due to dispersion not all power might fit on receiver, causing loss of power. The beamed power must then be converted into effective electric power, this can be done indirectly though a heat to power cycle or directly with rectenna of photovoltaic cells. Notice that in reality, just receiving 1% is considered normal, so receiving 25% would be very generous.

Edited March 14, 2017 by FreeThinker

[Jumberlack]

Is there a way to turn MW from a reactor/generator into thermal power elsewhere on the same ship? Maybe for example say I have a large power setup in the belly of my starship and want to be able to power thermal rockets on the back (and bottom for takeoff) with all that power.

[FreeThinker]

5 hours ago, Jumberlack said:

Is there a way to turn MW from a reactor/generator into thermal power elsewhere on the same ship? Maybe for example say I have a large power setup in the belly of my starship and want to be able to power thermal rockets on the back (and bottom for takeoff) with all that power.

 

This is what electric propulsion is for. You generate power somewhere on your ship, convert unto a universal medium that can be transported everywhere on your ship and use it a your location you desire. But this will of cource introduce large conversion losses. Usually the easiest way to achieve what you want is simply to add 2 radial thermal engines, not too far away from the reactor. In your case, near the belly.Ssimply radial attach any fuel tank and connect your thermal nozzle to it.

[Djohaal]

On 14/03/2017 at 11:46 AM, FreeThinker said:

There could be many reasons why you only receive 25% percent of the originally beamed power but in short each step from electric generated power to final effective received power can decrease efficiency. It start with converting electric power to beamed power, the shorter the wavelength, the less efficient this is. When the beam of power travels though the atmosphere, depending on the atmospheric depth and thickness, climate and wavelength a big or small percentage of all beamed energy gets absorbed. The when the beamed power is finally received, due to dispersion not all power might fit on receiver, causing loss of power. The beamed power must then be converted into effective electric power, this can be done indirectly though a heat to power cycle or directly with rectenna of photovoltaic cells. Notice that in reality, just receiving 1% is considered normal, so receiving 25% would be very generous.

What I meant is that while I'm getting excellent mileage on the beamed power, my question is where all the lost power on the megajoule supply -> energy beam transformation goes. I assume the beam generators (microwave, diode or electron) are subject to innate inneficiency that would result on large amounts of waste heat (since energy is always conserved). I'm not sure if the parts -do- produce waste heat from the conversion process in-game, but realism wise they should. 

[FreeThinker]

1 hour ago, Djohaal said:

What I meant is that while I'm getting excellent mileage on the beamed power, my question is where all the lost power on the megajoule supply -> energy beam transformation goes. I assume the beam generators (microwave, diode or electron) are subject to innate inneficiency that would result on large amounts of waste heat (since energy is always conserved). I'm not sure if the parts -do- produce waste heat from the conversion process in-game, but realism wise they should. 

Well I can tell for any the Wall to Beam power conversion, any power that isn't converted into beam power, is converted into Wasteheat.

Edited March 15, 2017 by FreeThinker

[Djohaal]

10 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

Well I can tell for any the Wall to Beam power conversion, any power that isn't converted into beam power, is converted into Wasteheat.

Bingo. 

[Popetastic]

If I put a solar power station in low solar orbit and then beam it out as ultraviolet using the lowest possible wavelength and the 36t FELA, how far can I expect the power to go? The transmitter has a data range of 400TM, does that apply to beamed power as well? If it won't go that far then would using relays help? I guess what I'm asking is how the range works. Is it similar to data transmission in that the range 'resets' every time it hits a relay or does it continue to degrade in efficiency the whole way? I also want to know how the relays work with multiple transmission sources. Can one relay satellite relay power from multiple sources at once if they're all on the same wavelength?

I'm trying to figure out if it's feasible to build a bunch of these stations and then relay that power all over the system or if I'd be better off constructing power stations around Jool and the OPM gas giants individually. Antimatter seems like a good bet since you can harvest quite a bit while you're out there...but several parts seem to encourage these kinds of low solar orbit power stations and I can't see what the point would be if you can't effectively beam it out past Dres.

[feuby]

I'm experiencing issues on my power relay network. I have a big reactor at like, 100km altitude of kerbin, with infrared beam generator (short infrared). Everything is ok, it's transmitting fine, and i'm able to receive it when i have line of sight.

 

Now, i want be able to receive that power anywhere. I built a 4-relay-sat rocket, sent it to space, orbit kerbin at 400km altitude, etc etc, same orbital period, on a perfect square. I put "infrared relay" on "relay mode" and.................. nothing. I tried to activate the light mirror (i have both light and infrared mirrors just in case i want to update the network later)...annnnd.... nothing. I did not put both mirrors on relay mode, it does not work (i tried a long time ago).

So :

-transmitter is ok. Receiver is ok. Because when in line of sight, everything works. It's shor infrared...

-Relays with infrared or visible light mirrors do not works.

 

Can relay power be blocking if incoming transmission exceeds relay power capacity ? I never saw anything related to relay size anywhere...

[Popetastic]

You need to click activate receiver on one mirror and then press link for relay. On the other mirror you click activate relay. Activate relay won't show up on the 2nd mirror until you activate the receiver on the first. Make sure the only active receivers you have on the whole ship are the mirrors you want to use. If you're doing infrared make sure the UV mirrors are all turned off, also make sure that none of your solar panels have receivers activated.

[FreeThinker]

10 hours ago, Popetastic said:

I'm trying to figure out if it's feasible to build a bunch of these stations and then relay that power all over the system or if I'd be better off constructing power stations around Jool and the OPM gas giants individually. Antimatter seems like a good bet since you can harvest quite a bit while you're out there...but several parts seem to encourage these kinds of low solar orbit power stations and I can't see what the point would be if you can't effectively beam it out past Dres.

 

 

 

2

Currently the calculation for the shortest connection favors direct connection and does not take into account signal strengthening/refocusing by intermediate hops , but My goal is that they will.

For now, you are adviced to use a big dish transmitter (like the Fella) and big dish receiver (like oversized dish receiver) and send in vacuum or ultra violet wavelength. This should be enough to power Kerbin

Edited March 16, 2017 by FreeThinker

[feuby]

8 hours ago, Popetastic said:

You need to click activate receiver on one mirror and then press link for relay. On the other mirror you click activate relay. Activate relay won't show up on the 2nd mirror until you activate the receiver on the first. Make sure the only active receivers you have on the whole ship are the mirrors you want to use. If you're doing infrared make sure the UV mirrors are all turned off, also make sure that none of your solar panels have receivers activated.

Oh that's what "link for relay" do.

I understand, but i have "activate relay" on all my satellites, and none of them has "link for relay" option. I tried using another receiver which has "link for relay option", nothing changed. Not working. No other mirror is active on sattelites. I really don't understand.

 

Thanks for helping by the way

Edited March 16, 2017 by feuby

[ms6107]

13 hours ago, feuby said:

I'm experiencing issues on my power relay network. I have a big reactor at like, 100km altitude of kerbin, with infrared beam generator (short infrared). Everything is ok, it's transmitting fine, and i'm able to receive it when i have line of sight.

 

Now, i want be able to receive that power anywhere. I built a 4-relay-sat rocket, sent it to space, orbit kerbin at 400km altitude, etc etc, same orbital period, on a perfect square. I put "infrared relay" on "relay mode" and.................. nothing. I tried to activate the light mirror (i have both light and infrared mirrors just in case i want to update the network later)...annnnd.... nothing. I did not put both mirrors on relay mode, it does not work (i tried a long time ago).

So :

-transmitter is ok. Receiver is ok. Because when in line of sight, everything works. It's shor infrared...

-Relays with infrared or visible light mirrors do not works.

 

Can relay power be blocking if incoming transmission exceeds relay power capacity ? I never saw anything related to relay size anywhere...

This is due to config of Infrared mirror. It can relay only wavelengths from 0.000009 to 0.001. Long infrared is 0.000011 and Short infrared is already 0.0000022 (5 zeros) and out of infrared mirror capability.

[feuby]

So, you're telling me i can't use infrared mirrors to relay short infrared beams... Thanks, i'll try changing relay antenas. Okay, you were right, wavelength are not compatibles...

So how can i relay short infrared ?

Edited March 16, 2017 by feuby

[DoubleUU]

26 minutes ago, feuby said:

So, you're telling me i can't use infrared mirrors to relay short infrared beams... Thanks, i'll try changing relay antenas.

I haven't used infrared yet.  Does it work like microwave power where you need two antennas to relay?  One linked for relay and the other transmitting I think (along with any transmission requirement like a Gyrotron).

Edited March 16, 2017 by DoubleUU

[ms6107]

15 minutes ago, DoubleUU said:

I haven't used infrared yet.  Does it work like microwave power where you need two antennas to relay?  One linked for relay and the other transmitting I think (along with any transmission requirement like a Gyrotron).

Mirrors can relay without additional antennas or beam producers. And it really good to relay, you have no signal convertion loss. So is better to change from long infrared to short.

Edited March 16, 2017 by ms6107

[feuby]

After multiples tests nothing work. I really don't understand what's wrong. I have both light and infrared mirrors on sat, so, as infrared did not allow transmission for short infrared, I looked for light mirrors and they are able to... my wavelenght is 0.0000022 as said by ms6107.

(pivotedLightMirror.cfg)

minimumRelayWavelenght = 0.0000001
maximumRelayWavelenght = 0.000009

I disabled all infrared, activated all light, using the "link for relay" option, activated all relays, anddddddddddddddddd... nothing. Still works when direct line of sight.

[DoubleUU]

45 minutes ago, ms6107 said:

Mirrors can relay without additional antennas or beam producers. And it really good to relay, you have no signal convertion loss. So is better to change from long infrared to short.

Ah, I didn't know that!  I'll have to play around with that now.  I've been using nothing but microwave power up until now.  I spent a lot of time optimizing antennas and such.  Not really looking forward to doing that again with infrared but it's intriguing.

 

P.S.  You don't need a producer to relay but do you need two mirrors?  One linked for relay and one set to transmit?  Or will one mirror work?

Edited March 16, 2017 by DoubleUU

[feuby]

Only one mirror works i think. I used infrared instead of microwave because microwave range is really too short to power planet-wide like kerbin.

 

I used two mirrors because i wanted to be able to switch from infrared to ultraviolet once i'll need to go further. Thus i have one infrared and one ligh mirror, and when i'll need, i'll swap.

 

Except that it does not even works for infrared so i'm loveed. I can't swap transmitter wavelenght as it is a really really big ship and i won't be able to disconnect antenna, swap beam producer, and reconnect. I could do, but there is no guarantee for it to works, and that's lot of work.

[Popetastic]

8 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

For now, you are adviced to use a big dish transmitter (like the Fella) and big dish receiver (like oversized dish receiver) and send in vacuum or ultra violet wavelength. This should be enough to power Kerbin

Do you mean that it will reach Kerbin from the sun but won't go farther on its own? But I could build relays that would get it the rest of the way to Jool?

Edited March 16, 2017 by Popetastic
Forgot something

[FreeThinker]

17 hours ago, Popetastic said:

Do you mean that it will reach Kerbin from the sun but won't go farther on its own? But I could build relays that would get it the rest of the way to Jool?

Of cource you still will be able to receive power, it's just very difficult to receive all power without insane large receivers.

Still it should be enough it you intend to use it electric engine propulsion and properly know how to use the acceleration during timewarp feature

Edited March 17, 2017 by FreeThinker

[DoubleUU]

Are there any plans to add additional textures for the tanks?  I like using Procedural Parts tanks and USI tanks for the textures but they don't support some of the fuel types and although I've added those fuels it's cheaty since the cryo part isn't really working correctly.  I would love some alternate colored textures for the tanks.  Maybe they exist and I just can't find them...?

[FreeThinker]

14 minutes ago, DoubleUU said:

Are there any plans to add additional textures for the tanks?  I like using Procedural Parts tanks and USI tanks for the textures but they don't support some of the fuel types and although I've added those fuels it's cheaty since the cryo part isn't really working correctly.  I would love some alternate colored textures for the tanks.  Maybe they exist and I just can't find them...?

Perhaps you could create a MM file which adds the resources to the procedular generated tanks. Then I will add you and give you the credits

[Nansuchao]

52 minutes ago, DoubleUU said:

Are there any plans to add additional textures for the tanks?  I like using Procedural Parts tanks and USI tanks for the textures but they don't support some of the fuel types and although I've added those fuels it's cheaty since the cryo part isn't really working correctly.  I would love some alternate colored textures for the tanks.  Maybe they exist and I just can't find them...?

For this reason I use Modular Fuel Tanks. It's great and it works well for many many different missions.

[Popetastic]

15 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Of cource you still will be able to receive power, it's just very difficult to receive all power without insane large receivers.

Still it should be enough it you intend to use it electric engine propulsion and properly know how to use the acceleration during timewarp feature

Thanks for the answer. As far as the relays go, can you relay multiple sources of power with one ship? For example, say I have a ship with an IR mirror, a UV mirror, and a microwave relay on board. Can the IR mirrors relay to an IR receiver on ship A while a UV mirror relays to a UV receiver to ship B, etc, at the same time?