KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[FreeThinker]

Version 1.3.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Released on 2015-08-19

• Added Universal static 5 way RCS Thruster Block and Universal static 4 way RCS Thruster Corner
  
• All RCS Thrusters are now put in Command and Control (Filter Extension)
  
• All RCS thursters Thrust and Mass doubled
  
• Replaced all RCSModule by RCSModuleFX
  
• Included ModuleRCSFX
  

Edited August 19, 2015 by FreeThinker

[ss8913]

I've been thinking about a new type of craft, but the control systems in KSP don't currently support it and I'm not sure if I could write a mod to do it or not. Imagine a spaceship with a thermal rocket pointing in all directions from the center of mass. You could have an inertia-less control system, where the engines work together to make a turn be a turn like on the ground, instead of just pointing a different direction while retaining your velocity vector. Imagine how maneuverable that would be? I mean you can build that now but you'd need a control system to do differential thrust on the different engine groupings to make it really work. And it'd use a lot of fuel, but.. would be fun to see if you could get it to fly. Just not sure KSP is mod-able enough to completely rewrite the control system like that.

I'd also settle for an updated thrust vector display in SPH/VAB for craft with multiple engine groups that fire in different directions. Or does that exist already?

[bos]

Okay, space plane is now equipped with the new RCS blocks. Huzzah! Successfully completed the Kerbin -> Eve surface and return mission without using the warp drive

[EnigmaG]

Version 1.3.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Released on 2015-08-19

• Added Universal static 5 way RCS Thruster Block and Universal static 4 way RCS Thruster Corner
  
• All RCS Thrusters are now put in Command and Control (Filter Extension)
  
• All RCS thursters Thrust and Mass doubled
  
• Replaced all RCSModule by RCSModuleFX
  
• Included ModuleRCSFX
  

I fear you broke (1.3.12 was OK) the fuel selection on the " Interstellar Retractable RCS Curved and Flat" Thrasters, whatever is selected it uses Hydrozine. The "Universal static 5 way RCS Thruster Block and Universal static 4 way RCS Thruster Corner" are OK

[FreeThinker]

I fear you broke (1.3.12 was OK) the fuel selection on the " Interstellar Retractable RCS Curved and Flat" Thrasters, whatever is selected it uses Hydrozine. The "Universal static 5 way RCS Thruster Block and Universal static 4 way RCS Thruster Corner" are OK

You say fuel switching is broken?

[EnigmaG]

Yes, on the Retractable RCS, the Text change Hydrazine;Hydrogen Peroxide;Mono Prpellent but it always uses Hydrazine

[FreeThinker]

Yes, on the Retractable RCS, the Text change Hydrazine;Hydrogen Peroxide;Mono Prpellent but it always uses Hydrazine

Dammit, it must be a bug in ModuleRXSFX, if you replace ModuleRXSFX by ModuleRXS, it should work again

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 1.3.14 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4[/h] Released on 2015-08-20

• Fixed switching betheen monopropelants
  
• Put Linear RCS in Control Filter
  

[Bishop149]

Just one quick thought, I have often thought that a useful IRSU process would be simply "Burn Hydrogen" to make water:

2x H2 + O2 = 2x H2O

As a fortunate side effect this process energy could be generated rather than consumed.

Just an idea, I often find I am left with excess O2 I can't find much use for, the option to vent it would be good but the option to turn it into water even better!

[FreeThinker]

Just one quick thought, I have often thought that a useful IRSU process would be simply "Burn Hydrogen" to make water:

2x H2 + O2 = 2x H2O

As a fortunate side effect this process energy could be generated rather than consumed.

Just an idea, I often find I am left with excess O2 I can't find much use for, the option to vent it would be good but the option to turn it into water even better!

Instead of burning H2 + O2, it would make more sense to use it in a fuel cell which could convert Hydrogen and Oxygen directly into Electric Power. A fuel is about 40-60% efficent. When combined with a thermal generator, it's efficency could be increased to even 85-90%. It would make the IRSU Refinery significantly more usefull as an auxilery power source, generating enough power to keep mission critical system online like life support or antimatter containment. Alternatively it could be used for high power operations, like atmospheric scoops, IRSU operation or even to restart a fusion reactor after coasting for several month to a destination

Edited August 20, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Bishop149]

Instead of burning H2 + O2, it would make more sense to use it in a fuel cell which could convert Hydrogen and Oxygen directly into Electric Power. A fuel is about 40-60% efficent. When combined with a thermal generator, it's efficency could be increased to even 85-90%. It would make the IRSU Refinery significantly more usefull as an auxilery power source, generating enough power to keep mission critical system online like life support or antimatter containment. Alternatively it could be used for high power operations, like atmospheric scoops, IRSU operation or even to restart a fusion reactor after coasting for several month to a destination

Indeed, the stock game already contains fuel cells for the generation of electric charge so I'd set the process in the refinery up to act more like a super charged version to generate the kind of power levels required for the processes you mention . . . . perhaps it could have two modes? Low power / Slow for support of basic ship systems, High power / Fast for restart of fusion or rapid water production?

[FreeThinker]

Indeed, the stock game already contains fuel cells for the generation of electric charge so I'd set the process in the refinery up to act more like a super charged version to generate the kind of power levels required for the processes you mention . . . . perhaps it could have two modes? Low power / Slow for support of basic ship systems, High power / Fast for restart of fusion or rapid water production?

Well I would try to make it automated, with a percentage maximum output and the abilty to producue Kilowatt or MegaWatt. It would only produce power when requested (megajoule being used). Since the mega joules will also feed Electric Charge, it can effectively be used to run all (KiloWatt) electric processes like life support and communication. Preferably it would be fully automated, automaticly kicking in when all main power sources (reactors) get offline. like a true auxilery emergency power system. As a user you wondly only need to active Emergency power guard mode, any you would never have to worry again.

Edited August 20, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Ed Gauss]

I think I've an error with KSPI's refinery module. When using the Sabatier Process, too much LqdMethane is being produced. When I have run the process with finite amounts LqdCO2 and LqdHydrogen, the vessel produces only LqdMethane without loss of mass. The Sabatier Process (with water electrolysis) should be producing oxygen in some form as well, accounting for about 61% (32 g/mole) of the product mass (52 g/mole).

Attached is a craft file I used to examine this behavior. It should contain LqdCO2 and LqdHydrogen to produce 19.2 tons of LqdMethane and 28.8 tons of oxygen. Instead it produces 45 tons of LqdMethane, running out of CO2 before hydrogen. Since the refinery window gives no mention of oxygen, I'm guessing there was an oversight the last time KSPI's ISRU system was overhauled. Ether oxygen should be produced, or a loss of mass due to dumping of oxygen should occur. I could also have made some error in my calculations, but the refinery should not be able to maintain the vessel's current mass without producing some oxygen product. Whatever the problem is, thanks in advance.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6la0c0rv2uxr3b/Test%20Rig.craft?dl=0

[FreeThinker]

I think I've an error with KSPI's refinery module. When using the Sabatier Process, too much LqdMethane is being produced. When I have run the process with finite amounts LqdCO2 and LqdHydrogen, the vessel produces only LqdMethane without loss of mass. The Sabatier Process (with water electrolysis) should be producing oxygen in some form as well, accounting for about 61% (32 g/mole) of the product mass (52 g/mole).

Attached is a craft file I used to examine this behavior. It should contain LqdCO2 and LqdHydrogen to produce 19.2 tons of LqdMethane and 28.8 tons of oxygen. Instead it produces 45 tons of LqdMethane, running out of CO2 before hydrogen. Since the refinery window gives no mention of oxygen, I'm guessing there was an oversight the last time KSPI's ISRU system was overhauled. Ether oxygen should be produced, or a loss of mass due to dumping of oxygen should occur. I could also have made some error in my calculations, but the refinery should not be able to maintain the vessel's current mass without producing some oxygen product. Whatever the problem is, thanks in advance.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6la0c0rv2uxr3b/Test%20Rig.craft?dl=0

Lol, it appears your correct, it should be producing waste Oxygen, but it doesn't. Worse, all mass is converted into Methane, which makes it generate more Hydrogen than consumed. Fortunatly, I haven't implemented Methane Pyrolysis yet otherwise you could it would have allowed you produce more hydrogen than consumed.

Edited August 20, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Ed Gauss]

Wow that is quite silly! I spent way too much time trying to figure out how much oxygen was getting transmuted to hydrogen before I posted here. If possible, I would suggest outputting LqdOxygen for use with the methane, though oxygen gas might be useful for TAC users.

[Trolllception]

Are you using the ModuleRCSFX from NathanKells repo? I noticed from the Realfuels Stockalike mod that he picked up maintenance on the mod.

https://github.com/NathanKell/ModuleRCSFX/

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 1.3.15 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4[/h] Released on 2015-08-20

• Linear RCS can now switch between ATTILA arc jet propellants, with different Isp and thrust performance
  
• Lnear RCS now has distinct texture (thanks to silversliver) and uses ModuleRCSFX
  
• Reverted LqdHe3 to Fractals original density and cost
  
• Fixed Haber process not producing Oxygen
  

[Trolllception]

I am having an issue with the Attila where it generates no effects when hotrockets is installed. Since nobody else reported this it may be an issue with my install. Anyone else experience this?

Also I just found a mod I never knew I needed. ModularFuelTanks is like a Realfuels lite as far as I can tell. I found a cfg created by MrWizard who now appears inactive, and updated the resource names to match KSPI's fuel name changes ('Ammonia' > 'LqdAmmonia') etc. I also added some additional KSPI fuels to the CFG. I'll play around with it and see if it needs any additional tweaks but please feel free to include it in KSPI's download if you feel it would benefit the mod and others. There is no cryostat support, however I may ask the developers about that.

Not sure how Antimatter or Exotic Matter would be stored.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh3cg7btjus617i/MFT_KSPI.cfg?dl=0

Edited August 21, 2015 by Trolllception

[Northstar1989]

Hiyas FreeThinker!

Glad to see this is chugging along. I'm back after a long hiatus from serious mod development, and will try and offer help where possible.

It looks like you've done a lot of great work! The descriptions on the front page have a few minor spelling/grammar errors I can help you clean up, and I will prob help write up some of the missing descriptions later on, but awesome to see so much progress while I've been away!

PM me, let me know what you need the most help with. I've got a lot of stuff going on in real life still, so go easy on me, but I look forward to helping again however I can!

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

Great to have you back Where were you anyway? There is a lot of work that need to be done

- - - Updated - - -

I am having an issue with the Attila where it generates no effects when hotrockets is installed. Since nobody else reported this it may be an issue with my install. Anyone else experience this?

Also I just found a mod I never knew I needed. ModularFuelTanks is like a Realfuels lite as far as I can tell. I found a cfg created by MrWizard who now appears inactive, and updated the resource names to match KSPI's fuel name changes ('Ammonia' > 'LqdAmmonia') etc. I also added some additional KSPI fuels to the CFG. I'll play around with it and see if it needs any additional tweaks but please feel free to include it in KSPI's download if you feel it would benefit the mod and others. There is no cryostat support, however I may ask the developers about that.

Not sure how Antimatter or Exotic Matter would be stored.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eh3cg7btjus617i/MFT_KSPI.cfg?dl=0

I will take a look if I can integrate it.

[yafeshan]

Do you have any plans to introduce alternative antimatter production methods. Anti matter can be produced out of any other resources but it requires quite a lot of energy. But the most efficient would be hydrogen.

If it was a mod it would require much more infrastructure than a simple refinery. Seperate anti-electron and anti-proton facilities and a central module to combine them. The energy requirement will be enormous but it can be quite efficient after some hard work. Obviously it should not be possible on Kerbin. It will require quite a lot of hydrogen to be efficient so coast of lake or sea (should be water) of another planet should be preferred.

What do you think in general about alternate anti matter production.

[Northstar1989]

Great to have you back Where were you anyway? There is a lot of work that need to be done

Here, there, every which where.

I'll try to share a bit about what I've been up to eventually, but right now I've got some catching up to do...

- - - Updated - - -

I will take a look if I can integrate it.

ModularFuelTanks is kind of the precursor of RealFuels. Or in a biologist' terms (what I am educated/trained as in real life), more accurately they are from closely related phyla and share a very recent common ancestor.

Basically RealFuels and ModularFuelTanks used to be one mod a not so long time ago, but then the two split apart as some players just wanted the ability to tweak fuel tank capacities... All the code should basically be identical to the RealFuels code that allows tweaking of fuel tank contents, with the exception of a few small bugfixes (that might have been made to the code of one but not the other since divergence) and that the code normally refers to stock fuel resources only rather than to integrating more realistic fuel resources.

Finally, I would like to suggest pruning a couple of parts folders from the mod that don't really serve any purpose anymore (but am posting here rather than PM'ing in case somebody is aware of a use for these parts I am not familiar with..)

The first of these is the LiquidFuelOnly tanks. These parts are basically just ugly, scaled-up versions of the original stock Mk1 fuselages, and serve virtually no purpose in a mod that has TweakScale as a dependency. Beyond that, KSP-Interstellar doesn't use the LiquidFuel resource anymore, and with the new InterstellarFuelTanks with switchable contents, it is perfectly easy to get large quantities of Hydrogen or Kerosene (what the LiquidFuel should be replaced with) on the launchpad in a much more useful and less ugly container...

The second is the Methane Fuel Tanks. They are basically just versions of the stock Rockomax fuel tanks designed to hold Meth/LOX instead, and with a slightly different (and IMHO aesthetically-pleasing) texture. The InterstellarFuelTanks with swappable contents have superseded them, as they can BOTH hold Meth/LOX and other fuels on the pad (and swap fuels mid-mission).

The Methane Tank textures/models are nice, and may be worth keeping or storing away somewhere (although, if I'm not mistaken- weren't they the basis for the InterstellarFuelTank textures/models? I seem to recall the folder once even containing the same model names as the Methane Fuel Tanks...) but the tank configs themselves are just a waste of memory, unnecessary maintenance work for mod developers, and clutter in the parts catalog...

Regards,

Northstar

[FreeThinker]

Do you have any plans to introduce alternative antimatter production methods. Anti matter can be produced out of any other resources but it requires quite a lot of energy. But the most efficient would be hydrogen.

If it was a mod it would require much more infrastructure than a simple refinery. Seperate anti-electron and anti-proton facilities and a central module to combine them. The energy requirement will be enormous but it can be quite efficient after some hard work. Obviously it should not be possible on Kerbin. It will require quite a lot of hydrogen to be efficient so coast of lake or sea (should be water) of another planet should be preferred.

What do you think in general about alternate anti matter production.

Well, I liked the idea of intergrating the Science Lab Antimatter production with Antimatter capture in space (effectevly improving antimatter efficency) and make it a depletable resource, giving you reason to build Antmatter Farms in orbit around other planets and muns with a magnetic field.

EDIT: you mentioned Antimatter production required a lot of hydrogen, I wasn't aware of this, I assumed you only need a small amount of it. Could you answer the following question. To produce 1 mg of antimatter, how much Hydrogen is required?

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, I would like to suggest pruning a couple of parts folders from the mod that don't really serve any purpose anymore (but am posting here rather than PM'ing in case somebody is aware of a use for these parts I am not familiar with..)

The first of these is the LiquidFuelOnly tanks. These parts are basically just ugly, scaled-up versions of the original stock Mk1 fuselages, and serve virtually no purpose in a mod that has TweakScale as a dependency. Beyond that, KSP-Interstellar doesn't use the LiquidFuel resource anymore, and with the new InterstellarFuelTanks with switchable contents, it is perfectly easy to get large quantities of Hydrogen or Kerosene (what the LiquidFuel should be replaced with) on the launchpad in a much more useful and less ugly container...

The second is the Methane Fuel Tanks. They are basically just versions of the stock Rockomax fuel tanks designed to hold Meth/LOX instead, and with a slightly different (and IMHO aesthetically-pleasing) texture. The InterstellarFuelTanks with swappable contents have superseded them, as they can BOTH hold Meth/LOX and other fuels on the pad (and swap fuels mid-mission).

The Methane Tank textures/models are nice, and may be worth keeping or storing away somewhere (although, if I'm not mistaken- weren't they the basis for the InterstellarFuelTank textures/models? I seem to recall the folder once even containing the same model names as the Methane Fuel Tanks...) but the tank configs themselves are just a waste of memory, unnecessary maintenance work for mod developers, and clutter in the parts catalog...

Agreed, they are obsolete, I will fase them out, and eventualy remove them

Edited August 21, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

I agree with the deletion of some no more useful parts, but I suggest to save the Pure Liquid Fuel tanks. Also if Interstellar no more use Liquid Fuel, during the mid-game those tanks are really useful for interplanetary travels with Nervas, and more aesthetically pleasing than the stock fuselage.

[FreeThinker]

I agree with the deletion of some no more useful parts, but I suggest to save the Pure Liquid Fuel tanks. Also if Interstellar no more use Liquid Fuel, during the mid-game those tanks are really useful for interplanetary travels with Nervas, and more aesthetically pleasing than the stock fuselage.

Although usefull, as Northstar concluded, it's nothing but a resized stock part, and it doesn't contain or support any Interstellar technology. Other reasons are realism. Although I cannot prevent people from using Liquid Fuel in Nuclear Engines, it doesn't make sence and therefore not be facilitated much

Btw, has anyone tested the improved Linear Arcjet RCS yet? It can now switch between all Arcjet propellants

If your disapointed about it thrust, don't worry, I also plan to create a throtlable Ristojet, it is ment for VTOL, it will be ideal for landing or taking off with space planes on muns or planets if your got the power

Edited August 21, 2015 by FreeThinker