KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[mrsolarsail]

FreeThinker, I posted a standalone version of my PersistentThrust mod (with PersistentEngine and SolarSailPart modules). It's not on CKAN yet. My next version of SolarSailNavigator will depend on it. The biggest change is that PersistentEngine now scans the propellant list for those with mass (density > 0) and without mass (density == 0), and requests the right amount from the vessel. Currently, massless resources (e.g. ElectricCharge) are not requested by default, because of a bug I found at high time warp when requesting ElectricCharge from a solar powered ion engine spacecraft. I haven't implemented the generic interface we discussed, that would allow custom methods of calculating and applying deltaV and resource changes.

https://github.com/bld/PersistentThrust/releases/tag/v1.0.1-alpha

[tmbomber]

WORKING!!!

Here's a minimalist approach...

2.5m everything. In order left to right: docking port, 2x tank, probe core, SAS, Thermal generator with six radiators, dusty plasma reactor with three extra 50% sized UN tanks, and a Magnetic Nozzle.

Threw on a MechJeb, a comm32, and a couple long range antennas (Origame) and we're good to go. With the booster to get it to Kerbal excape it cost 1.2MegaKerbucks.

I noticed that if I set the throttle above 10% I'd start burning the LH2 from the tank. (in the pic you can see it's at 1973/2000)

I'm unsure what the throttle setting is for net zero LH2 consumption. I've a feeling it might depend on vessel mass.

(freethinker, ya wanna give a hint on that??? )

Not too bad for a tug that'll take you anywhere.

Need to add some RCS, then figure out what I wanna push out to Sarnus.

[nordicpc]

So I was thinking the point of the supercollider in space was to attach a science lab to it, send it up into orbit, generate data, crunch data, then send science home. However, with it making 1500 data, I don't think there's a lab that can handle that. And if it's biome-based, I'm not going to get much use out of that collider before it's scrapped. Sure, I can move it to a handful of biomes, but couldn't my Kerbals just figure out new and exiting experiments to run with it to generate more data in their current biome? Kinda like how we don't have to move the LHC to get new data out of it? Maybe it should take more time, generate less data (like 500 units so that we can fill a lab), and not be biome-based?

Am I missing something here?

[ss8913]

OK, figured out the ISRU issue - have to "turn overflow on" - what it's really upset about is that the Peroxide process wants to make monopropellant AND hydrazine, and I don't have any MP tanks on this thing. So, the error msg is a bit misleading.

So I guess now I need to figure out how to find Ammonia deposits. I don't see any other way to make hydrogen if I can't find ammonia to extract, otherwise I'm going to be lacking nitrogen anywhere that has no atmosphere. SCANSat doesn't appear to be able to detect it from orbit and so far the only way I can see to determine if there is any is to take the ISRU there and right click it... any other way to find where ammonia lives?

[mrsolarsail]

FreeThinker, I posted a standalone version of my PersistentThrust mod (with PersistentEngine and SolarSailPart modules). It's not on CKAN yet. My next version of SolarSailNavigator will depend on it. The biggest change is that PersistentEngine now scans the propellant list for those with mass (density > 0) and without mass (density == 0), and requests the right amount from the vessel. Currently, massless resources (e.g. ElectricCharge) are not requested by default, because of a bug I found at high time warp when requesting ElectricCharge from a solar powered ion engine spacecraft. I haven't implemented the generic interface we discussed, that would allow custom methods of calculating and applying deltaV and resource changes.

https://github.com/bld/PersistentThrust/releases/tag/v1.0.1-alpha

And I started a new thread to discuss development here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/133735-WIP-1-0-4-PersistentThrust-v1-0-1-alpha

[SciMan]

AZBZ, That's what I gathered. What I want to know is if that works with any kind of generator that produces charged particles, or if it only works with certain ones (fusion for example)

[FreeThinker]

WI'm unsure what the throttle setting is for net zero LH2 consumption. I've a feeling it might depend on vessel mass.

(freethinker, ya wanna give a hint on that??? )

It has nothing to do with mass. Throttle should be about 8%. Any higher and you start to increase thrust at the cost of propellant (LqdHydrogen).

Notice you should right click the LdqHydrogen tank to verify the amount of grams stays the same. Also notice the Isp of the magnetic nozzle, it will not go lower after 8%. Congratulations you can now go anywhere (except near atmospheres). Thanks to the power of Atom!

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

A little suggestion for new KSPI users: NEVER, I repeat NEVER use a 3.75 AIM reactor with a 3.75 TTJ on a spaceplane... Fueled with Hydrazine, you'll find yourself escaping the Kerbol system while still in atmosphere. In vacuum if you use DRE you'll kill all your crew by G-force. Beware!

[Coga19000]

Most likely explanation is that you ran out of fusion fuel. If the reactor dies due to lack of fuel, all Thermal power dies as well. Could you tell me how to reproduce the bug/state?

No, it's not lack of fuel. It happens to me literally every time the reactor deactivates, be it from lack of fuel, WasteHeat hazards, or manual deactivation.Whether I'm on the ground or in a vacuum doesn't matter either. It leaky happens every time.

[FreeThinker]

A little suggestion for new KSPI users: NEVER, I repeat NEVER use a 3.75 AIM reactor with a 3.75 TTJ on a spaceplane... Fueled with Hydrazine, you'll find yourself escaping the Kerbol system while still in atmosphere. In vacuum if you use DRE you'll kill all your crew by G-force. Beware!

LOL. And still people are complaining that the Turbobojet are not powerfull enough. I have actualy managed to shoot myseel to duna with the TTJ one time. This was before KSP 1.0. Now you will probalby burn up in the atmosphere.

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No, it's not lack of fuel. It happens to me literally every time the reactor deactivates, be it from lack of fuel, WasteHeat hazards, or manual deactivation.Whether I'm on the ground or in a vacuum doesn't matter either. It leaky happens every time.

In that case you should decribe a step by step procedure for me to reproduce the bug. Once I figure out what is going wrong, I will be able to fix it.

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OK, figured out the ISRU issue - have to "turn overflow on" - what it's really upset about is that the Peroxide process wants to make monopropellant AND hydrazine, and I don't have any MP tanks on this thing. So, the error msg is a bit misleading.

So I guess now I need to figure out how to find Ammonia deposits. I don't see any other way to make hydrogen if I can't find ammonia to extract, otherwise I'm going to be lacking nitrogen anywhere that has no atmosphere. SCANSat doesn't appear to be able to detect it from orbit and so far the only way I can see to determine if there is any is to take the ISRU there and right click it... any other way to find where ammonia lives?

There are many ways to collect hydrogen. They easiest to collect from Water Electrolysis. Water can be found on many moons just under the surface. The second way would by scooping it up just above the atmosphere. Gas giants are particualar usefull for this. They are like big Hydrogen gas stations. Other sources are Methane Perolisis, which can be found in the atmosphere or sea on some muns, but this isn't implemented yet.

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

FreeThinker, I posted a standalone version of my PersistentThrust mod (with PersistentEngine and SolarSailPart modules). It's not on CKAN yet. My next version of SolarSailNavigator will depend on it. The biggest change is that PersistentEngine now scans the propellant list for those with mass (density > 0) and without mass (density == 0), and requests the right amount from the vessel. Currently, massless resources (e.g. ElectricCharge) are not requested by default, because of a bug I found at high time warp when requesting ElectricCharge from a solar powered ion engine spacecraft. I haven't implemented the generic interface we discussed, that would allow custom methods of calculating and applying deltaV and resource changes.

https://github.com/bld/PersistentThrust/releases/tag/v1.0.1-alpha

Good to see progress. I will pull some additional fixes I have discovered

[Nansuchao]

Yesterday I was talking about the Atmospheric Curve, like you know, RAPIERS, Ram and so on, that have higher thrust at higher height.

But with AIM reactor on a MKIII spaceplane you're unable to use more than 30% of thrust, atmospheric or vacuum flight, otherwise everything become uncontrollable. At max thrust it has more than 14.000 Kn.

I think it can reach, land and come back from Eve and Tylo on the same mission...

Edited September 8, 2015 by Nansuchao

[ss8913]

LOL. And still people are complaining that the Turbobojet are not powerfull enough. I have actualy managed to shoot myseel to duna with the TTJ one time. This was before KSP 1.0. Now you will probalby burn up in the atmosphere.

- - - Updated - - -

In that case you should decribe a step by step procedure for me to reproduce the bug. Once I figure out what is going wrong, I will be able to fix it.

- - - Updated - - -

There are many ways to collect hydrogen. They easiest to collect from Water Electrolysis. Water can be found on many moons just under the surface. The second way would by scooping it up just above the atmosphere. Gas giants are particualar usefull for this. They are like big Hydrogen gas stations. Other sources are Methane Perolisis, which can be found in the atmosphere or sea on some muns, but this isn't implemented yet.

SORRY, meant to say *Nitrogen*. The ISRUs can extract ammonia, but I have no way to scan for it from orbit, so unless I get really lucky and find some on the surface, I have no off-world source of nitrogen... I need some kind of part that can scan for ammonia, since the ISRU can extract it. Water I can already scan for with SCANSat.

[FreeThinker]

mmm, well technically, just looking at an atmosphere with an spectrometer should tell you the chemical composition of the atmosphere. This probably need some integration with an telescope mod like CactEye.

Determining the composition of the ocean will be trickier. There already exist some KSPI science instruments to do this, but it requires you to land (and survice) in the sea, which can be quite tricky. Fortunatly that landing on a beach also count as landing in the sea.

Regarding scanning Nitrogen on the surface, It would be nice if it could be integrated with SCANSAT somehow, allong with all other resources. But I have no idea how to do this at this time. Any help would be usefull.

Regarding where Nitrogen can be found in te soil , I'm not sure either But since nitrogen is supposedly abundant in the universe, it should be available everythere in trace amounts I guess. We need the expertise of a planetary geologist

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

Yesterday I was talking about the Atmospheric Curve, like you know, RAPIERS, Ram and so on, that have higher thrust at higher height.

But with AIM reactor on a MKIII spaceplane you're unable to use more than 30% of thrust, atmospheric or vacuum flight, otherwise everything become uncontrollable. At max thrust it has more than 14.000 Kn.

I think it can reach, land and come back from Eve and Tylo on the same mission...

On EVe the Thermal Turbojet is probably one of the few engine that works effectively. Landing a manned KSPI powered vessel on Eve witout Thermal Jet engines is probably a bad Idea.

[Coga19000]

What do you mean a step-by step procedure? It happens literally every time I deactivate the ICF Reactor. No matter the place or the craft, it just does.

[FreeThinker]

What do you mean a step-by step procedure? It happens literally every time I deactivate the ICF Reactor. No matter the place or the craft, it just does.

I will look if I can reproduce the bug.

Note if you deactive the Reactor, all linked Thermal Power and Change PArticles will disapear. All Electric Generator will also stop producing Electric Power. THe ICF reactor is currently the only reactor which has a jump start ability which allow you to charge it with Electric Charge. When activated and it has accumulted enough power it should start the reactor. I intend to create a generic part in the future, which allows you to do the same with other reactors including the Magnetic Confinement Reactor.

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[okder]

LOL. And still people are complaining that the Turbobojet are not powerfull enough. I have actualy managed to shoot myseel to duna with the TTJ one time. This was before KSP 1.0. Now you will probalby burn up in the atmosphere.

I did plane to reach mun using only kerbal atmosphere, but still fact that ATTILA has same or superior properties(thrust/isp when speed is 0) with some of reactors looks unbalanced.

and there is no ability to link several (two more precise) turbojets to one reactor without loosing ability to generate power or turbojets properties (thrust/isp)

P.S. yea turbojet atmosphere performance depends on speed and with 1km/s it's much better than Attila if directly attached.

still can't mine water on mun (East Farside Crater).

can't produce uranium nitride

and tritium is not produced by fusion reaction (Helium3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion)

[FreeThinker]

still can't mine water on mun (East Farside Crater).

Only the large craters near the poles have some water. Please verify with the Mun Water Map (PlanetResourceData) if you tried collecting water from the correct crater

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and tritium is not produced by fusion reaction (Helium3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion)

Note Tritium Production is very slow. What does the Reactor Info screen tell?

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[okder]

Only the large craters near the poles have some water. Please verify with the Mun Water Map (PlanetResourceData) if you tried collecting water from the correct crater

well it means that stock resource concentration viewer shows data incompatible with KSPI? stock viewer(same as shows ore, but of course with water selection as resource) shows maximum water concentration there.

Note Tritium Production is very slow. What does the Reactor Info screen tell?

i only mean that first page states that Helium3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion specifically should produce tritium (not only neutrons for additional surplus), but actually tritium production is (much) lower than some other reactions.

[Coga19000]

I will look if I can reproduce the bug.

Note if you deactive the Reactor, all linked Thermal Power and Change PArticles will disapear. All Electric Generator will also stop producing Electric Power. THe ICF reactor is currently the only reactor which has a jump start ability which allow you to charge it with Electric Charge. When activated and it has accumulted enough power it should start the reactor. I intend to create a generic part in the future, which allows you to do the same with other reactors including the Magnetic Confinement Reactor.

Yeah, I kinda realised at the first time that I could not power it up again because my Warp Drive sucked away all of my Electric Charge and I had none to Jumpstart it with. But the second time, deactivation seizures away all of my Electric Charge too, and without something specific to use it.

[FreeThinker]

I'm planning on creating a sollution for this problem. I'm thinking about some way to store the power in a capacitator. It will basicly be a Megajoule storage device which can be chaged using regular electric charge. This allows you to store a lot of power, enough to start a fusion reactor, but it will slowly lose power of time, so you can not be store it indefenatly like regular Electric Charge.

[ABZB]

I'm planning on creating a sollution for this problem. I'm thinking about some way to store the power in a capacitator. It will basicly be a Megajoule storage device which can be chaged using regular electric charge. This allows you to store a lot of power, enough to start a fusion reactor, but it will slowly lose power of time, so you can not be store it indefenatly like regular Electric Charge.

Kind of like the NFE capacitor module? I had at one point (I think back in .25 or so) downloaded that source & made a custom module that was the NFE capacitor, but with MJ. Should have occurred to me to suggest it somewhere...

[FreeThinker]

Something like that but better. NFE capacitor used it to power the electric engines. That does not make a lot of sence since electric engine need power over long durations, and the amount of power would be way too much to store in a limited amount of capacititators. It's main use would to deliver power for very short duration, like jumpstarting Fusion reactors. Also NTF capacitaors could store the power indefinatly, which seems broken. Only their akward usage kind of balanced it usege. Note that MegaJoule is technically implemented like short term capacitors. If you switch of the power, it will drop after a few seconds.

Btw, I recently notice Near Future Technology Models have a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License, this means I'm finally allowed to use excelent these models, including it's capacitators, engines and nuclear reactors. I'm planning to integrate some of it's models Into KSPI.

Edited September 8, 2015 by FreeThinker

[ABZB]

Something like that but better. NFE capacitor used it to power the electric engines. That does not make a lot of sence since electric engine need power over long time, and the amount of power would be way too much to store in a limited amount of capacititators. It's main use would to deliver power for very short duration. Also NTF capacitaors could store the power indefinatly, which seems broken. Only their akward usage kind of balanced it usege. Note that MegaJoule is technically implemented like short term capacitors. If you switch of the power, it will drop after a few seconds.

the latter might be less realistic - consider this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor

Considering that the near-future not-yet-possible stuff, a discharge time on the order of weeks or months seems reasonable - and would be perfect for KSPI. It might even be usable as a separate part unto itself (even for a solar-powered probe that might have a large short-term power draw (wait, that's basically the NFE one))

in any event, it would make sense for a capacitor part to have a (n optionally activated) bit that would briefly re-start de-activated fusion reactors to recharge when the capacitor would be unable to restart if it waited for an additional [some small, but margin of error time unit]. If it automatically draws MJ (at low priority) from other sources (solar panels, fission, etc.) it would (probably) not need to be optional, as it would not re-start fusion at all in that case.