[1.2.2] Realistic Progression Zero (RP-0) - Lightweight RealismOverhaul career v0.54 June 15

[Guest]

Still working on tier 0 orbital capable rocket designs, it's wreking my mind! I remade boosters and core with exact avionics via procedural avionics and was able to reduce RD-100 run times to exactly 70.2 seconds, but I still need 4 stages of WAC rockets @ 50.1 seconds run time (6x to 2x to 1x to 1x) for a total of 10 WAC's. These fail like 75% of the time. I need suggestions.... Bad lol

[DRVeyl]

22 hours ago, Aazard said:

Still working on tier 0 orbital capable rocket designs, it's wreking my mind! I remade boosters and core with exact avionics via procedural avionics and was able to reduce RD-100 run times to exactly 70.2 seconds, but I still need 4 stages of WAC rockets @ 50.1 seconds run time (6x to 2x to 1x to 1x) for a total of 10 WAC's. These fail like 75% of the time. I need suggestions.... Bad lol

I'm uncertain why you're looking for a 4-stage tier-0 *reliable* orbital rocket design.  If you DID prove one out, would that suggest that whatever you design contains gear that doesn't belong in tier-0 nodes in RP-1?  Or is the conceit that American rockets used as an upper-stage to heavier Russian first stage rockets could have done better than either nation's approach, given some hypothetical world where cooperation drove development rather than competition?

[Guest]

Honestly, I'm just seeing if anyone else has designed a rocket with greater reliableity. I'm not trying to make any point with the design other than faster completion of the contracts for faster early career progression.

[iAMtheWALRUS]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:21 AM, MaltYebisu said:

@ValynEritai In the OP it says:

I don't think anything have changed with the version of RP-0 (or its recommended/required mods)  for KSP 1.2.2 to make it stop working with CKAN. Just have a clean KSP 1.2.2 install and fire up CKAN. It should work.  

I recently started a game in this environment.   It works except for part inventory.   Part inventory was removed from the only 1.2.2 builds of KCT and the stable versions of Scrapyard have not been backported to 1.2.2.   So it's a bit harder than intended with no part reuse.  You can use a pre-release verison of Scrapyard but it caused massive VAB lag and crashes for me.

[Guest]

Omg someone add scrapyard to the required/suggested mod list plz

[chrisl]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, AVaughan said:

@chrisl  Rollout costs include things like wages and training for launch control teams and pad personal, plus costs associated with moving the rocket to the pad, fueling, (in real life fueling with some of the toxic propellants can get very expensive), and range safety costs.  Apparently these costs have been properly researched.  Personally I agree that just counting those costs as part of the total cost in the VAB would be simpler, and less confusing to new players.  

For the battery, was that a procedural battery?  If so the unexpected costs might be because it wasn't tooled.  You can also add electric charge to tanks in the same way you add fuel or satellite payloads (I'm not sure about the starting tanks, but some of the later tanks definitely support adding electric charge).  I normally add battery capacity that way, rather than using dedicated batteries.  Also I'm pretty sure the starting cockpits aren't supposed to support full life support, (so that people can't use them for breach the karman line manned rockets), so they probably aren't intended to support missions that need electric charge for life support.  

No, it wasn't a procedural battery or part.  The cockpit I was using had 400L of extra space available.  I used that for the battery.

[chrisl]

Maybe this was done intentionally.  I'm playing 1.3.1 RO/RP-1.  Very early in the career and I noticed something.  There is the "ROAerobeeSustainer" which is the generic RO version of the Aerobee sustainer engine for the WAC Corporal and Aerobee sounding rockets.  If you happen to have the Taerobee mod, however, you can also choose to use the "taerobee.aerobee" engine which is the same part.  Just from a different mod.  Thing is, the Taerobee part is in the Early Rocketry tech node while the RO part is in the "Starting Parts" tech node.  Is there a reason these two identical engines are in different tech nodes?  If not, which node should they be in?  I'm guessing the "Starting Parts" node or you wouldn't have any engines to launch early sounding rockets with but I wasn't positive.

[chrisl]

Something I've noticed with RP-1 is that the images you see when you start KSP have changed.  That's cool.  I like looking as some of what you guys did.  But they flash by so fast that I don't really get to look at them much.  Plus they get a little disorienting.  They only stay on the screen for a second or two. Is there any way to change the length of time before the next image displays?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, chrisl said:

Something I've noticed with RP-1 is that the images you see when you start KSP have changed.  That's cool.  I like looking as some of what you guys did.  But they flash by so fast that I don't really get to look at them much.  Plus they get a little disorienting.  They only stay on the screen for a second or two. Is there any way to change the length of time before the next image displays?

I have had this issue on some installs and not others (my previous 1.3.1 install was super fast, my current 1.3.1 install plays at "normal" speed) . I had chalked it up to a bad mod install as my install was flawed in other ways. I deleted everything (but sub assemblies that i copied and saved) including all mods i manually downloaded and used ckan as the wiki described, downloading all suggested/supported mods listed for RP-0/RP-1 support in OP, and added the manual mod installs plus other non-part mods I use (being super careful to check version numbers for 1.3.1 support). After that everything was fine.

 

SO TLDR: either a weird bug, bad install, or it "just happens" sometimes, what do i know i'm not a unity coder. I'd suggest a wipe and reinstall of KSP and hope that fixes it.

[chrisl]

13 hours ago, Aazard said:

I have had this issue on some installs and not others (my previous 1.3.1 install was super fast, my current 1.3.1 install plays at "normal" speed) . I had chalked it up to a bad mod install as my install was flawed in other ways. I deleted everything (but sub assemblies that i copied and saved) including all mods i manually downloaded and used ckan as the wiki described, downloading all suggested/supported mods listed for RP-0/RP-1 support in OP, and added the manual mod installs plus other non-part mods I use (being super careful to check version numbers for 1.3.1 support). After that everything was fine.

 

SO TLDR: either a weird bug, bad install, or it "just happens" sometimes, what do i know i'm not a unity coder. I'd suggest a wipe and reinstall of KSP and hope that fixes it.

Unfortunately, I have two 1.3.1 installs.  My main which has dozens of mods and my test which has bare minimums for RO and RP1.  And I've rebuilt the test install numerous times, always with the same result.  I suppose it could be something with one of the mod downloads I have (since I don't redownload mods every time I rebuild my test install) but that's a fair number of downloads to pull again.  Especially without having some idea which download is the likely culprit.  I did redownload the RP-1 dev files but that didn't change anything.

[Guest]

Are you using newest module manager for 1.3.1? As a secondary note did your CKAN installed procedural fairings come with a procedural payload fairing (any) because i had to download the correct 1.3.1 version from GitHub to get them on my install. I believe there was also a missing "name = ModuleUnpressurizedCockpit" tag on my starting airplane cockpits in the tree-parts file of rp-0 (rp-1) folder i had to fix.

I hope you get the play speed of the "slides" to your liking

Edited May 18, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

So has anyone ever found a rocket engine or solid rocket in the 2 starting carrer nodes other than A4 RD-100, Aerobee, Tiny Tim or the separator solid rocket in any supported mods? I am referring to the 2 nodes that "start" unlocked, including very first node and the one seems to need a visit to VAB/SPH to unlock. There are only so many combinations of aerobee and RD-100 or A4 that i can "theory build" with lol.

[chrisl]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:41 PM, Aazard said:

Are you using newest module manager for 1.3.1? As a secondary note did your CKAN installed procedural fairings come with a procedural payload fairing (any) because i had to download the correct 1.3.1 version from GitHub to get them on my install. I believe there was also a missing "name = ModuleUnpressurizedCockpit" tag on my starting airplane cockpits in the tree-parts file of rp-0 (rp-1) folder i had to fix.

I hope you get the play speed of the "slides" to your liking

I have MM 3.0.6 which I think is the latest version.
I manually installed everything.  Didn't install from CKAN.  But I'm pretty sure I have the procedural payload fairings.  I haven't used them yet since I'm still very early in my career (not even a dozen launches yet) but I'm pretty sure I've seen them in my parts list.

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, Aazard said:

So has anyone ever found a rocket engine or solid rocket in the 2 starting carrer nodes other than A4 RD-100, Aerobee, Tiny Tim or the separator solid rocket in any supported mods? I am referring to the 2 nodes that "start" unlocked, including very first node and the one seems to need a visit to VAB/SPH to unlock. There are only so many combinations of aerobee and RD-100 or A4 that i can "theory build" with lol.

I have all of the RN parts mods (that I know of anyway), FASA, SSTU, ATK Propulsion, Real Scale Boosters, SXT, & Taerobee but I too only have those few starting engines.  Mostly I just tend to build the same two sounding rockets over and over: V-2 and the WAC.  It gets old but early career always seems like you're just grinding for early science anyway.

[Guest]

I find rd-100 series my early work horse, when the rd-101 and A9 unlock the A9 has limited use as sustainer until rd-103 comes along. Getting to orbit/polar orbit  is doable with rd-100 and aerobees but that's best I can manage with them. I might be able to get 1 full WAC into orbit but it's not enough to flyby or impact moon (for me)

[Guest]

Rd101/102 boosters with aA9/ rd103 core start to make it possible to send an aerobee variant (xasr1 or aj type) to orbit with with enough DV and a small avionics unit and RCS tank/thrusters to aim it at the moon for flyby/impact. So far that's my limit nothing past fairly basic orbits until RD-101/A9 and XASR1 upgrades. And I doubt that could pull off a mars/Venus flyby. Heck that limited of parts makes perametered orbits nearly impossible unless your good at killing throttle at the right time

Edited May 22, 2018 by Guest

[chrisl]

Well, that's not overly surprising.  I don't think any of those engines were ever used to reach orbit, let alone send flybys to the Moon, Mars or Venus.  They are all early engines used on sounding rockets (or short to medium range missiles). 

[golfsoccer9]

Not completely sure if this is due to realistic progression or not, but I do not have the capability to use maneuver nodes after circularizing.  I have already upgraded the Tracking station and Mission control to level 2.  I have noticed that I have the ability to place a maneuver node while I am ascending, but once I circularize or get close to doing so, the opportunity to place a node is no longer available.  As soon as I reach orbit, my orbital line changes from the typical single blue line from vanilla KSP to three pink lines with one of those pink lines actually showing my spacecraft travel direction.  Anyone know what the problem could be?

I'm new to the forums and could post a screenshot, but I'm not exactly sure how to add an image to a post haha.

 

[Phineas Freak]

56 minutes ago, golfsoccer9 said:

Anyone know what the problem could be?

Using Principia (pink lines)? The stock (patched conics) maneuver nodes will not work, you will need to use the Flight Planner that Principia supplies to plan your burns.

[AVaughan]

Do your have principia installed? See

and https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Concepts

  

[golfsoccer9]

Quote

6 hours ago, AVaughan said:

Do your have principia installed? See

and https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Concepts

  

 

6 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Using Principia (pink lines)? The stock (patched conics) maneuver nodes will not work, you will need to use the Flight Planner that Principia supplies to plan your burns.

Ahh, I see.  Thanks for your replies guys!

 

[Guest]

I've been doing some testing of whats possible the "start" of of career, before any tech unlocks. This started with 2 nearly obsessive quests to finding: a tier 0 orbital vehicle...

Which i did find in 79 second RD-100 core with 2x 79 sec RD-100 boosters, carrying a Cluster of 9x 56.5 second WAC sounding rockets, in a radially attached 6  to 2 to 1 rockets, with a "payload" of a sounding rocket core, barometer and thermometer.

...and: designing a single Derwent V engine, Bzzard cockpit jet that could break mach 1 (342m/sec), cruise at 15km and reach 20km+ in a spike climb

Which I did also, but learning area ruling took abit to get right,but well worth it, max speed level ended up being 360m/sec.

I found a few things that escaped me over many RP-0/RP-1 saves.

One was that while I was tweaking a WAC boosted by RD-100 sounding rocket I was talking with a friend, and I mentioned its "impressive" altitude capabilities to him. His first question was "where can it reach", something i had never really tried, so i added "down range" tracker to mechjeb window flew it east in a lobbed arc (75 degree pitch @ 80m/sec to 26km  quickly making way to 5 degree pitch with 60km Spin/Seperation)) with final AP hitting about 200km. Watching it travel I saw the down range tracker hit 1420km just as i crossed back into upper atmosphere, almost 1650 km before it burned up. My friend was unimpressed, but I realized that I had always assumed that water, shores, and forests were my only early science point hunting grounds other than a time limited tight to fly polar orbit (and that only opened up 8, with luck, near in space telemetry reports, about 18 science), but now I had access to atleast some of them.

So i put a 1500km radius on a map with Cape Canaveral launch as the center and got this:

This compared to biome map showed me at least tropics and grasslands in my reach, but mountains, deserts and tiaga where very close by Texas, likely reachable by adding 1 additional WAC stage to my WAC/RD-100 sounding rocket. Savanna was oddly present at the top of South America, tundra was in Quebec (my current RD-100 LV with 3 WAC's in a 2 to 1 setup would reach both likely), and ice cape started in Greenland ((my current RD-100 LV with 5 WAC's in a 2 to 2 to 1 setup would reach it, if not the 6 to 2 to 1 setup would). So Basicly instead of doing very little useful in the "start" of career I found I could collect ALOT of science and get more free VAB/SPH/R&D upgrade points faster. About 11 missions should net you all the science you can get, but film canisters are a pain to recover without burning up, requiring a breaking setup or makeshift heatshield. 

The second was that I was researching tech and spending upgrade points poorly. I used to through all my starting efforts into better rockets and spent upgrades without a plan. Now I set aside the 1st 20 upgrade points for the VAB build rate, giving me decet build times for even large starting rockets, then dump everything into R&D. I now research buying the cheapest nodes first (buying as many separate nodes as i can each time I buy) but change research order to this:

1st flight node, for X1 cockpit > 1st avionics node for batteries > 2nd avionics node for Sputnik > 1st solar power node, for solar panels > 1st rocket node, for XASR-1/RD-101/A9 > 1st SRB node > 2nd SRB node, for castor/baby sergeant >1st materials node, for service module tanks > 3rd avionics node, for explorer core > 1st science node > 2nd science node > 4th avionics node, for early controlled core > first RCS node for 1kn thruster > 1st heat shield node > 2nd rocket node > 3rd rocket node > 4th rocket node > lunar range comm node

Rushing manned sub-orbital flights directly to solar panels is a huge speed up for satellite missions, and with RD-101/A9/XASR-1 rocket upgrades moon impact/flyby missions are possible, baby sergeants help that further. Also rushing the 1st orbit flight ASAP after the sub-orbital return mission injects your space rogramwith alot of useful cash.

Also the lack of any starting add-on battery makes little sense to me. In 1942 mercury oxide - zinc and by 1949 alkaline were in use, sure they dont recharge and are larger/heavier then more modern batteries but there were in use according to Wikipedia. It would be helpful to have some way of adding power craft. See Wikipedia info here: 

Cell chemistry	Also known as	Electrode		Re­charge­able	Com­mercial­ized	Voltage			Energy density		Specific power	Cost†	Discharge efficiency	Self-discharge rate	Shelf life
		Anode	Cathode			Cutoff	Nominal	100% SOC	by mass	by volume
					year	V	V	V	MJ/kg (Wh/kg)	MJ/L (Wh/L)	W/kg	Wh/$ ($/kWh)	%	%/month	years
Mercury oxide-zinc	Mercuric oxide Mercury cell	Zinc	Mercuric oxide	No	1942–[6]1996[7]	0.9[8]	1.35[8]		0.36–0.44 (99–123)[8]	1.1–1.8 (300–500)[8]					2[6]
Alkaline	Zn/MnO 2 LR	Zinc	Manganese (IV) oxide	No	1949[9]	0.9[10]	1.5[11]	1.6[10]	0.31–0.68 (85–190)[12]	0.90–1.56 (250–434)[12]	50[12]	0.48 (2067)[12]	45–85[12]	0.17[12]	5–10[4]

Edited May 28, 2018 by Guest
battery info update

[Pixie Perfect]

I'm having a problem with getting a lot of parts to show up in the tech tree. What's odd, is that there are mods where some parts show and some don't. For example, Near Future Electrical will show one or two reactors but not all of them. Also, cryogenic tanks will show up in the tech tree but there's no way to use them in game, because default tanks do not show up in the VAB for whatever reason. I used to be able to see / use these parts in the tech tree when I had 1.2.2, but since upgrading to 1.3.1 (I'm using the dev branch  of RP-0 from github) I've been having issues with missing parts.

I've tried a bunch of things just to try to get the missing parts in NFE to show in the tree to no avail. I've tried manually editing the part .cfg, I've even added it to TREE-parts.cfg ... am I missing something?

[siimav]

1 hour ago, Pixie Perfect said:

I'm having a problem with getting a lot of parts to show up in the tech tree. What's odd, is that there are mods where some parts show and some don't. For example, Near Future Electrical will show one or two reactors but not all of them. Also, cryogenic tanks will show up in the tech tree but there's no way to use them in game, because default tanks do not show up in the VAB for whatever reason. I used to be able to see / use these parts in the tech tree when I had 1.2.2, but since upgrading to 1.3.1 (I'm using the dev branch  of RP-0 from github) I've been having issues with missing parts.

I've tried a bunch of things just to try to get the missing parts in NFE to show in the tree to no avail. I've tried manually editing the part .cfg, I've even added it to TREE-parts.cfg ... am I missing something?

The tank types that were in 1.2.2 are no longer used. There's now different levels (1 to 4) of default tanks and service module tanks that are unlocked by researching materials science tech tree nodes. Cryogenic tanks were not available in RP-1 for a long time. Couple of weeks ago an update to RealFuels was released that added a MLI slider that you can now use to control isolation levels on your tanks.

Adding part configurations to TREE-parts.cfg should actually work to make these available in RP-1. Are you sure you assigned the parts to some tech node and added pricing for it?

[Pixie Perfect]

Okay, I've been testing the cryo tanks by trying to update RealFuels. So far, I've tried the 1.4 update, and that didn't work, it wouldn't let me go to engine or tank UI or select any fuels. So I downloaded the 1.3.1 with the fix, and with it installed NetKAN and Modular Fuel Tanks. Found that Modular Fuel Tanks makes the load up hang at some procedural tank, so I deleted MFT and it still wouldn't let me select any fuels or go into the engine GUI. Deleted NetKAN, same thing. So I reinstalled the version of Real Fuels I had before and simply updated the RealTankTypes.cfg in resources, but that still didn't give me the MLI slider on any of my tanks. I overlooked that RealSettings.cfg was also updated, so I replaced that file, deleted the MM cache, restarted the game, and no change .... still no slider.

 

As far as the Tree-parts.cfg, this is what I put in it to test with:

^{@PART[reactor-25]:FOR[xxxRP0]
{
    %TechRequired = nuclearFissionReactors
    %cost = 800
    %entryCost = 1400000
    RP0conf = false
    @description ^=:$: <b><color=green>From Near Future Electrical mod</color></b>}

    ^{MODULE
    { name = ModuleTagInstruments }
}}
I didn't put that module tag in there, so MM or whatever process must've input it there itself. I've tried both false and true for RP0conf with no change. And for extra measure, this is what I put in that parts config:

^{// --- asset parameters ---
    mesh = reactor-25.mu
    rescaleFactor = 1}

    ^{TechRequired = nuclearFissionReactors
    entryCost = 1400000}
Add to that the fact it takes nearly 20 minutes to load the game is even more frustrating when troubleshooting these little nagging problems.

[Pixie Perfect]

Okay, so I got the MLI to work on the tanks. I reinstalled KSP and when installing I was careful to make sure to get as many mods at 1.3.1 as possible, and I also dramatically limited the number of parts mods I installed. It loads up in just a few minutes now. So I'm gonna hunt down the other thing and see if I can get these parts to show up ....