How to Live on Other Planets: Saturn

[MatterBeam]

57 minutes ago, Grand Ship Builder said:

Very interesting read so far. I have a couple solutions to the energy problem for Titan. Why not, on atmospheric entry, use speed from it to generate electricity, similarly to wind. And how about methane-fueled rockets, such as the ITS? Why not use biofuel from the plants, as well?

Accelerating a spaceship so that it reaches Titan requires energy, either in the form of propellant or a reactor. That energy is best used on Titan itself. 

Methane fuel requires oxygen oxidizer, which is not available on Titan.

Plants are a method of converting solar energy into chemical energy. There is very little sunlight on Titan, and plant efficiency is extremely low (about a 3% percent or less).

40 minutes ago, Grand Ship Builder said:

1. For atmospheric entry, I never mentioned going out of the atmosphere only to get back in. I meant that every time a module of the colony enters the atmosphere, why not use the speed from that entry to gain energy, like with wind but much faster.
2. How about fusion energy? It's much closer than we think. We could use that energy to make the oxygen from the water ice.

If fusion energy is available, then it would solve energy needs everywhere. 

[James Kerman]

Very informative OP, MatterBeam.  Have you considered a Stirling engine as a power source for a Titan colony?  Having an area that is warm enough to keep humans alive and the external temperature should provide ideal conditions.

Edited September 11, 2017 by James Kerman
edited for grammar

[insert_name]

1 hour ago, James Kerman said:

Very informative OP, MatterBeam.  Have you considered a Stirling engine as a power source for a Titan colony?  Having an area that is warm enough to keep humans alive and the external temperature should provide ideal conditions.

The heat inside would be created by the colony's power, this would violate the second law of thermodynamics 

Edited September 11, 2017 by insert_name

[Bill Phil]

1 hour ago, insert_name said:

The heat inside would be created by the colony's power, this would violate the second law of thermodynamics 

Even so, Stirling engines are Heat Pumps, and, when run in reverse, they pump heat from one side to another, and thus can be used as a heater or cooler. There are better heat systems out there, though.

[MatterBeam]

13 hours ago, James Kerman said:

Very informative OP, MatterBeam.  Have you considered a Stirling engine as a power source for a Titan colony?  Having an area that is warm enough to keep humans alive and the external temperature should provide ideal conditions.

The warm areas to live in on Titan will be heated by human metabolism and heaters. Humans consume food, which takes electricity to produce, heaters, use electricity directly. This electricity must be generated from another source. 

10 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

Even so, Stirling engines are Heat Pumps, and, when run in reverse, they pump heat from one side to another, and thus can be used as a heater or cooler. There are better heat systems out there, though.

Stirling engines used as generators must work with a temperature gradient going from hot to cold. There are no good heat sources on Titan!

[James Kerman]

[Bill Phil]

1 hour ago, MatterBeam said:

The warm areas to live in on Titan will be heated by human metabolism and heaters. Humans consume food, which takes electricity to produce, heaters, use electricity directly. This electricity must be generated from another source. 

Stirling engines used as generators must work with a temperature gradient going from hot to cold. There are no good heat sources on Titan!

I'm not referring to using an already existing heat source. I'm referring to using power already generated to pump heat from one place to another. If, instead of drawing power from a heat gradient, you want to create a heat gradient (say, for heating) you can apply power to the engine. You can then use it as a cooling loop and a heating loop. It doesn't generate any power, however it can use power. 

There are better systems, of course. But perhaps a combined heat and power system could be useful.

[MatterBeam]

7 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

I'm not referring to using an already existing heat source. I'm referring to using power already generated to pump heat from one place to another. If, instead of drawing power from a heat gradient, you want to create a heat gradient (say, for heating) you can apply power to the engine. You can then use it as a cooling loop and a heating loop. It doesn't generate any power, however it can use power. 

There are better systems, of course. But perhaps a combined heat and power system could be useful.

As, so you would be using the heat engines as a waste heat recovery system. Smart!
It would be limited in capability, but in an early power-starved colony, every scrap of heat will be used and recycled as much as possible and this sort of thing would help.

[kerbiloid]

(Updated)

Both bodies have a lot of hydrogen, so statistically they should contain a lot of deuterium.
Using D-D fusion reactors working on local fuel, one could get some energy.
Not necessary permanently working. Say, pulse ones, burning with lasers or microwaves tiny amounts of D to boil a water tank.
(Anyway, this is not a project of very near future).
Then we get energy from the temperature gradient between the kettle-hot tank and the cold outer medium.
So, its efficency drops to zero when the outer medium gets kettle-hot.

***

Having a self-reproducing bot equipped with, say, electrostatic D extractor, gaseous laser and a boiler, we can drop one on Titan.
It will be gathering hydrogen, melting its way down to the rock, dissociating metal oxides with heating, gathering the metal powder and printing its clones.
Which clones will do the same.

After making several clones, every clonebot will start to the Saturn, aerobrake and sink in the Saturnian atmosphere.
Being sunk and laying somewhere in hydrogen ice, this bot will be still gathering hydrogen, extracting deuterium and just burn it and heat all around for years.

Myriads of bots from Titan will warm up the whole Saturn atmosphere.
Saturn will radiate heat and melt its rings and icy moons. It will become an artifical star (literally, with fusion) surrounded by low-gravity waterworlds.

This auto-managed semi-star is always kettle-hot.
When it gets hotter - heat exchange drops to zero and generators produce no energy.
When it gets cold - gradient between the hot tank and the outer medium grows, generators work, the planet star warms.

***

Extracting carbon from methane, the bots grow carbon nanotube and attach to each other, making a planetary network covering the Saturn core.
This allows them to coordinate their activity.

After covering the Saturn core, the network grows radially, becoming 3d.
So, Saturn has an AI-managed layer and becomes a clever star.

When the network complexity reaches a critical level, it becomes the hydrogen-cooled humanity's overbrain.

***

Then we take carbon and nitrogen on Titan, bring it to the icy water moons and making to grow first algae, then water plants.
With enough organics, the water bubbles exponentially turn into wet organic islands with water bubble inside.

As from the very beginning we have divided every island in two connected, the organic islands grow as huge organic dumbbells with two organic bags of water, connected with organic column.
As you can see, then we just start evaporating some water, making the organic dumbbell rotate.

Now we have a managed kettle-hot semi-star surrounded with organic dumbbell-shaped moons with normal, 1 g, gravity.

(When we run out of metals, we mine it on asteroids and comets — at last this gives some sense to this activity).

Delivering fluids from the Saturnian atmosphere instead of the depleted Titan, we grow numerous and really big organic islands.

Then we put there trees, bananas, some animals (at least, fishes and worms).

***

To enforce the orbital islands structure, they use carbon nanotube patterns armouring the organic chaos.
Years later every organic dumbbell becomes a carbon nanotube structure populated with plants.

While the moon grows, a dumbbels gets more toroidal and at last gets the shape of erythrocyte.

***

So, we get a nice fantasy world right from Boris Vallejo's illustrations, with organic islands floating in mid-space around a small warm, beautiful and sentient gas giant.
We can fly from island to island through the space, as they are close to each other. And in some cases even use space lifts.

Approving these technologies on Saturn, we expand them on Jupiter and other planets.
So, several centuries later we get a Solar System from fantasy books.

***

As the islands are numerous and keep constant conditons inside, they appear to be a natural insulation layer around the post-Saturn brainstar.
They keep conditions stable inside the organic Dyson mini-sphere.

The same repeats with other gas giants.

So, the Solar System from useless chaos becomes a quad of mini-dyson super-heads with super-minds where the humans live in harmony with nature on/in the carbon&organic orbital floating islands.

***

Future Saturn moons.
(Documental photo.)

Spoiler

(Yes, they can collide from time to time, but this doesn't matter - they are made of the armored organic rubber.)

Edited September 12, 2017 by kerbiloid

[MatterBeam]

@kerbiloid:

I like the Saturn terraformation mega-project idea. Here's a few thoughts I've had:

-The cold outer medium you use to get a temperature gradient can always be a set of radiators evacuating heat into the vacuum of space. 
-I'm assuming these Titan digger-bots are fusion fueled?
-There is no metal powder or even rocks on Titan until you reach its core under hundreds of kilometers of hard ice. You'll need to bring it from elsewhere. It might be better to start the project on Enceladus or Dione.
-The hydrogen ice on Saturn is at pressures where metallic hydrogen exists. Basically, the pressures are so great that the bonds between hydrogen are crushed and rearranged. Nanobots will not survive! It might be better to have them simply drift on Saturn's winds and collect hydrogen while receiving shipments of carbon and minerals from the moons.
-It sounds like it might be much more energy and resource efficient to simply collect De from Saturn and use it to heat Titan instead of trying to warm all of Saturn until it becomes warm like a star or brown dwarf. Maybe you could try terraforming Titan by melting the top layer of ammonia and water ice and using the vapours as a thermal blanket to prevent further heating from leaking into space? Like an oven, Titan would get quite warm very quickly. Over time, you could even lower atmospheric pressure by having hot particles escape into space. 
 

[kerbiloid]

54 minutes ago, MatterBeam said:

I'm assuming these Titan digger-bots are fusion fueled?

Yes. Atomic amounts of D-D being fused with something electromagnetic, with no moving parts (because it has to 3d-print them).
This microfusion heats a water boiler. Between the hot boiler and the cool outer medium there is a temperature gradient which gives us some energy..

54 minutes ago, MatterBeam said:

There is no metal powder or even rocks on Titan until you reach its core under hundreds of kilometers of hard ice.

I presumed that hundreds of meters (mountains under ice, so on).
But if so, yes, some rocky moon looks nice.

54 minutes ago, MatterBeam said:

The hydrogen ice on Saturn is at pressures where metallic hydrogen exists. Basically, the pressures are so great that the bonds between hydrogen are crushed and rearranged. Nanobots will not survive! I

These bots are not nano, they are spacecraft-sized. With laser, melter and boiler.
(At least, originally. Later, of course, they can be replaced with a nanite network).
They won't sink so deep at once, and they will stay warm burning Saturnian deuterium. So, they will be hot spots in the hydrogen ocean, expanding up and down, warming up next layers of hydrogen.
And they don't want to melt all this hydrogen ice. It's important to have an infinite source of cold, as well as inifinite source of deuterium. This will provide the bots with electricity.

Nanotube trusses are to keep them in places, properly oriented, coordinating their efforts.
They have to float (may be even with numerous jet nozzles) and they have not melt all around, but to melt all above and to froze all below, to redistribute the heat from the below to to the above.
Ideally - laying on top of a layer of snow beneath a cold hydrocarbon ocean, getting warmer to the surface.

When some equilibrium will be established, a kettle- or room- warm Saturn will radiate enough heat to keep the orbital plants alive, while the inner (and the most) part of Saturn will stay cold.
Between them there will be (laying? floating?) a multilayer brainbot network using the underlaying hydrogen ice to produce electricity and for superconductivity. Vertical flows of liquid hydrogen from the cold metallic hydrogen core.

54 minutes ago, MatterBeam said:

Maybe you could try terraforming Titan

Terraforming is a synonym to an artificial racism, due to absolutely different gravity on different bodies.
Any terraforming will split humanity into small tribes of normal-gees, one-sixth-gees, zero-gees, etc. And most of these tribes will be very small which means genetical problems and limited places to live.

It is very important to keep all humans at 1 g to allow them just "have a five-year contract on the Saturn orbital colony and happily return to the Earth when dismissed".
Big rotating things allow this, rather than, say, a Martian ground colony.

Saturn's 1.065 g would be ideal, of course, if it were more dense.

So, Titan and other moons are just raw materials to build artificial orbital colonies with normal g inside.

Edited September 12, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Grand Ship Builder]

Why not go to Saturn for hydrogen? Sure, it's off-Titan, but so is getting the modules there in the first place, and resupply missions. It might take a while for the base to be self-sustaining, but it's better than nothing.

 

Also, you can fly like a bird in Titan's atmosphere using only cardboard wings!

[MatterBeam]

54 minutes ago, Grand Ship Builder said:

Why not go to Saturn for hydrogen? Sure, it's off-Titan, but so is getting the modules there in the first place, and resupply missions. It might take a while for the base to be self-sustaining, but it's better than nothing.

Also, you can fly like a bird in Titan's atmosphere using only cardboard wings!

This was proposed in the Titan-specific part of the Saturn Energy network. Here's the mention:
 

Quote

Titan is a special case. It is extremely difficult to devise a laser beam that can both cross the large distance between Saturn and the moon AND penetrate the atmosphere. The solution to this problem is an alternative energy transmission system.

A purely laser-based power transmission system is likely to have a low overall efficiency. A four-step process as described above might suffer energy losses on the order of 1-(0.5*0.8%0.5): 80%. For every kW produced from Saturn's winds, 200W arrive where it is needed in the form of electricity, would still need to overcome the hurdle that is Titan's atmosphere. 

The alternative is physical transport of hydrogen. Instead of generating electricity to power laser beams, the wind turbines are used to collect, liquefy and store hydrogen. The liquid hydrogen is fed to a highly stress-resistant tank covered in ablative heat shielding and equipped with parachutes. 

The tank is shot by coilgun straight up and out of Saturn. It is intercepted by Titan at the peak of its trajectory, where it performs an aerobraking maneuver at the moon's orbital velocity of 5.57km/s before parachuting to the ground.

Hydrogen can be burned in Titan's nitrogen atmosphere to produce ammonia and 15MJ of energy per kg. This heat energy can be converted into electricity at efficiencies of 40 to 60% by gas turbines or MHD generators, so we can expect 7.5MJ/kg.

The gravitational potential energy of 1kg of mass at Titan's altitude above Saturn (5.683e26 kg) is about 31MJ. An 80% efficient coilgun would need 38.7MJ to deliver 1kg of hydrogen to Titan.

The alternative hydrogen-based power transmission system delivers 7.5MJ of energy per kilogram while consuming 38.7MJ, meaning an overall efficiency of 19.4%. This is lowered by the mass of the aeroshell, heat-shield and parachutes required, but it would remain competitive compared to a purely laser-based transmission system. 

 

[Grand Ship Builder]

A few videos stating ways to get energy from Titan:

 

Spoiler

1.

2.

 

 

[MatterBeam]

16 hours ago, Grand Ship Builder said:

A few videos stating ways to get energy from Titan:

  Reveal hidden contents

1.

2.

 

 

A decent introduction, with the second video going into more detail but getting a some stuff wrong.
For example, there is no energy positive way to create oxygen out of water using electrolysis, then burn it with methane to produce electricity, even if you have 100% efficiency. 

[AeroGav]

On 30/08/2017 at 9:36 PM, MatterBeam said:

The main difficulty with this approach is the very low density of the atmosphere. A wing in Saturn's atmosphere would generate 14.7% of the lift that it would on Earth. To compensate for this, the wing must be made 6.8 times larger or fly through the air 6.8 times faster. A larger wing masses proportionately more, so attempting to fly at jet airliner speeds would require planes that look more like the Solar Impulse plane than the Airbus A340: long thin wings that make up most of the plane's size.

Flying instead 6.8 times faster would mean that for an airplane of familiar size and proportion, hypersonic speeds are needed just to take off!

Thankfully, lift and drag are linked. If lift is hard to generate, then there is not much drag either. Generating enough lift would create similar levels of drag as here on Earth. This would mean that the most efficient way to fly on Saturn would be by using some sort of supersonic flying wing. 

Awesome post and a big, big read.   I could spend six hours watching documentaries and not find as much info.    But I digress.

Just a little quibble with the above bit (my pet subject),  it's true in KSP aerodynamics but not so in real life (or Ferram Aerospace mod).     Lift increases with the square of speed - go twice as fast, four times as much lift.

So,  huge wings and go subsonic,  or  build a mach 2-3 airplane that looks a lot like Concorde, or an XB-70 Valkyrie.         If you stay below 85% of the speed of sound,  lift drag ratio of 20:1 is possible,   which means a very large airplane wouldn't need much propulsion just to stay airborne.   But how do you launch something with that kind of wingspan ?     Maybe the wings can be constructed on the Moon,  by an ISRU plant smelting regolith to extract aluminium, and mated to the fuselage in orbit.

If you go supersonic,  you can get by with a more practical proportions, but the lift drag ratio is inherently worse (by a factor of two or three) so you need a beefier power plant.   Then again, this airplane never actually has to take off, so enough thrust to support flight at an altitude that doesn't result in it getting crushed is the rather low bar we're setting.    Mach 2 is the sweet spot.     Around mach 1, you have the high drag transonic region so you actually get less drag if you fly faster, but after mach 2 lift:drag ratio goes into an inexorable decline.

Now I've got an idea for a Sci-Fi or computer game set on a town-sized supersonic nuclear airplane cruising around the atmosphere of Saturn. 

Of course, once you deploy an airplane-colony like that ,  there is no way to get it out of Saturn's gravity well.       You'd need to be able to shut down a turbine and service it in flight.  The bearings can't last forever.       Likely an exciting job, but not as much fun as trying to dock the resupply shuttle that's bringing the replacement parts at Mach 2.       As for colonists getting back to orbit after serving a stint on colony airplane Valkyrie, maybe we could just send our worst criminals there, and not have to worry about bringing them back?

[MatterBeam]

7 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Awesome post and a big, big read.   I could spend six hours watching documentaries and not find as much info.    But I digress.

Just a little quibble with the above bit (my pet subject),  it's true in KSP aerodynamics but not so in real life (or Ferram Aerospace mod).     Lift increases with the square of speed - go twice as fast, four times as much lift.

So,  huge wings and go subsonic,  or  build a mach 2-3 airplane that looks a lot like Concorde, or an XB-70 Valkyrie.         If you stay below 85% of the speed of sound,  lift drag ratio of 20:1 is possible,   which means a very large airplane wouldn't need much propulsion just to stay airborne.   But how do you launch something with that kind of wingspan ?     Maybe the wings can be constructed on the Moon,  by an ISRU plant smelting regolith to extract aluminium, and mated to the fuselage in orbit.

If you go supersonic,  you can get by with a more practical proportions, but the lift drag ratio is inherently worse (by a factor of two or three) so you need a beefier power plant.   Then again, this airplane never actually has to take off, so enough thrust to support flight at an altitude that doesn't result in it getting crushed is the rather low bar we're setting.    Mach 2 is the sweet spot.     Around mach 1, you have the high drag transonic region so you actually get less drag if you fly faster, but after mach 2 lift:drag ratio goes into an inexorable decline.

Now I've got an idea for a Sci-Fi or computer game set on a town-sized supersonic nuclear airplane cruising around the atmosphere of Saturn. 

Of course, once you deploy an airplane-colony like that ,  there is no way to get it out of Saturn's gravity well.       You'd need to be able to shut down a turbine and service it in flight.  The bearings can't last forever.       Likely an exciting job, but not as much fun as trying to dock the resupply shuttle that's bringing the replacement parts at Mach 2.       As for colonists getting back to orbit after serving a stint on colony airplane Valkyrie, maybe we could just send our worst criminals there, and not have to worry about bringing them back?

I think these planes will just be dropped from orbit. They'd have efficient cruise engines, but they'd need a set of high-thrust (TWR>1) engines so that they can slow down, stall and hover into a docking position with a floating platform. If these are not available, you might be stuck attempting to recover huge planes like this:

But hey, birds do it every day.

As for Mach turbulence - note that the atmosphere is made of hydrogen and helium instead of our mix of gasses. It will have different properties. Hydrogen is more compressible, for example. 

[Slam_Jones]

Just wanna say, these threads/blog entries are awesome.  @MatterBeam Keep up the good work!  We definitely appreciate it

[MatterBeam]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:19 PM, Slam_Jones said:

Just wanna say, these threads/blog entries are awesome.  @MatterBeam Keep up the good work!  We definitely appreciate it

Thank you. 

[PB666]

I want to make corrections here. If Saturn's relative atmosphere composition is identical to Earth's and the atmosphere is 14.7% that of Earths then the velocities needed for lift is not 6.8 times higher.

Lift = 0.5 * k_l * p * S * u²  where k is the lift constant for the body, p is the fluid density, S = is the lift surface area, and u is the fluid velocity. Dont get hung of in the word fluid, fluid means something that flows, generally in a laminar fashion such as the air around a wing.

The equation can be condensed to deal with only two variables to k2 where k2 = 0.5 k₁ S thus L = k₂ * p * u² In the instance where the same body is flowing though two medias on is 0.147 times as dense as the second we can relate the 2 by Lift = k₂ * 0.14p * (Xu)^2 = K₂ * p * u² This can be simplified to 6.81 = X² where X = SQRT(6.81)   v_saturn = 2.609 v_earth.

Correction 2. Saturn does not have a fixed pressure or a fixed surface so its atm pressure is trivial.

Correction 3. Titans Insolance, cloud levels and atmosphere make solar based power a no-go. Titans semi-major axis is approximately ten times that of Earths. This means that with any given efficiency Titan would produce about 1/90th the solar power (right not that would be 3 to 4 watts per square meter) on a clear day. Given Titans atmosphere and temperature of -162.9'C. The life expectancy of a solar panel is less than 50 years, the cost of buiding solar panel in watts would not justify its use over that period. This is an easily rebuked technology. A simple plant grow system for three med size food plants (say lettuce) uses 100 watts of power So that would mean that you would need 10 meter square of solar panel for one lettuce plant.

Bearings, oil, grease in high liquid methane environments do not perform as they would on earth.

The winds and water velocities on titan are driven by the sun. The temperature is so low on Titan it is difficult to see wind as a viable source of energy. Keep in mind that when temperature approaches 0'K by definition it means there is no velocity, all KE in the system has been removed.

I would say this. If you don't have fusion power in space, titan is one of the worst of the places you want to inhabit. Since the construction of fusion power is going to be almost entirely off the planet, titan could never sustain its own colony.

 

[MatterBeam]

51 minutes ago, PB666 said:

I want to make corrections here. If Saturn's relative atmosphere composition is identical to Earth's and the atmosphere is 14.7% that of Earths then the velocities needed for lift is not 6.8 times higher.

Lift = 0.5 * k_l * p * S * u²  where k is the lift constant for the body, p is the fluid density, S = is the lift surface area, and u is the fluid velocity. Dont get hung of in the word fluid, fluid means something that flows, generally in a laminar fashion such as the air around a wing.

The equation can be condensed to deal with only two variables to k2 where k2 = 0.5 k₁ S thus L = k₂ * p * u² In the instance where the same body is flowing though two medias on is 0.147 times as dense as the second we can relate the 2 by Lift = k₂ * 0.14p * (Xu)^2 = K₂ * p * u² This can be simplified to 6.81 = X² where X = SQRT(6.81)   v_saturn = 2.609 v_earth.

Correction 2. Saturn does not have a fixed pressure or a fixed surface so its atm pressure is trivial.

Correction 3. Titans Insolance, cloud levels and atmosphere make solar based power a no-go. Titans semi-major axis is approximately ten times that of Earths. This means that with any given efficiency Titan would produce about 1/90th the solar power (right not that would be 3 to 4 watts per square meter) on a clear day. Given Titans atmosphere and temperature of -162.9'C. The life expectancy of a solar panel is less than 50 years, the cost of buiding solar panel in watts would not justify its use over that period. This is an easily rebuked technology. A simple plant grow system for three med size food plants (say lettuce) uses 100 watts of power So that would mean that you would need 10 meter square of solar panel for one lettuce plant.

Bearings, oil, grease in high liquid methane environments do not perform as they would on earth.

The winds and water velocities on titan are driven by the sun. The temperature is so low on Titan it is difficult to see wind as a viable source of energy. Keep in mind that when temperature approaches 0'K by definition it means there is no velocity, all KE in the system has been removed.

I would say this. If you don't have fusion power in space, titan is one of the worst of the places you want to inhabit. Since the construction of fusion power is going to be almost entirely off the planet, titan could never sustain its own colony.

Thanks. I cleared up the lift comment. 

The 'Saturn pressure' is an arbitrarily defined altitude determined by NASA to be the point where the pressure is equal to 1bar. 

I did mention that 1% of Earth's sunlight reaches Titan's surface. Wind energy on Titan is a decent option though. As I detailed in the blog, the higher atmospheric pressure compensates somewhat for the lower wind velocities. It is also easier to float up a wind turbine to high altitudes, and exposed cables can be maintained at superconducting temperatures. 

Titan is not much worse a place to inhabit than any of the other bare rocks in the outer solar system. At the cost of less solar energy (10x less than on other Saturn moons) and a lot of insulation, you gain radiation protection, free aerobraking, a solid surface, a lot of useful volatiles such as ammonia. 

Fusion power is not a strict necessity. Fission fuels are hard to find, but they would do a decent job at covering a colony's power requirements. The Saturn-Titan energy chain, reliant on shooting hydrogen to Titan to be burned in the Haber process for energy. 

[Urses]

Interesting casualty as i see happens here. Colnisaruon of Saturn as a energie providing source would become rentable if you integrate materiasyntesisers... pump energie in and get everything you need... but why colonize Saturn then and not buuld a dyson sphere or at least cloud?

[MatterBeam]

6 minutes ago, Urses said:

Interesting casualty as i see happens here. Colnisaruon of Saturn as a energie providing source would become rentable if you integrate materiasyntesisers... pump energie in and get everything you need... but why colonize Saturn then and not buuld a dyson sphere or at least cloud?

What is that?