Stock tech tree: Do you skip parts of the early tech tree by using the KSC science exploit/cheats/game setup settings? If yes, why?

[RizzoTheRat]

I agree the standard tech tree doesn't make a lot of sense, you need to do manned flights to get the science to unlock the parts for unmanned flights for example.  However once past that initial hurdle of the first orbit, science is pretty easy to gather, I think I did a couple of landings on each of Mun, Minmus and Duna to complete the tree on this game, and I only ever use labs to fill contracts of have bases/stations with labs on them, they just seem too powerful to me in science generation.

Next time I start a new game I think I'll be looking at tech tree and realism mods.

[MaxwellsDemon]

I rather enjoy the challenge of the "early days," so I try not to rush past it too quickly!

[GoSlash27]

I don't consider collecting the KSC science an "exploit", and I farm it in every career. I farm the pad and runway first, then do low/high rocket flights, then orbit, then come back and begin farming KSC and Kerbin once I've unlocked aviation parts.
It's not "skipping parts of the tech tree", it's just developing my career in an efficient and orderly manner. 

 Also point in fact: I don't need the high tech stuff unlocked in order to run my space program because I am adept at getting things done with small, cheap lifters.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited January 24, 2018 by GoSlash27

[Mr. Peabody]

I take it from the top. No I do not cheat. ever.

Getting science is no problem for me and I can't see how it could be for anyone.

[XLjedi]

Questions looked too compelcated to actually read and complete...

But generally, no I would not cheat on Science in a career that requires I earn science to unlock a node. Although, I don't consider KSC science biome farming a cheat or exploit.

However, there are at least a few conditions under which I have either used the debug cheats feature or plan to use it:

1)  The interior look of the SPH and VAB, as well as exterior looks of the KSC in various states of upgrade obviously change appearance as they are upgraded.  The first hangar upgrade, for instance, has a pretty cool looking interior that I may use for a craft display such as the one in the spoiler below.  I can only get this pic thru a career mode game as the sandbox would start you with a fully upgraded facility.  So sure, in a new career game I would cheat myself the funds to upgrade the facility and (if I want to take my craft outside) maybe cheat the science required to unlock the parts to take the craft outside. 

Spoiler

2)  There are times when I may want to build a craft and purposefully limit myself to a given set of tech tree items.  ...or possibly match someone elses tech tree.  It would be nice if under sandbox mode, the tech tree building was accessible and allowed you to enable or disable parts of the tree.  As an alternative I just start a new career and cheat the science and upgrade funds needed to accomplish the task.

3)  There are career modes that cover "earn money and science" and "earn science with no limit on money"; but there is no career mode for "earn money with no limit on science".  I thought it might be a neat career mode playthru to see how far I could get with a pre-designed stable of craft with only facility upgrade limitations on science.  In other words, how few of my advanced craft designs would I actually need to be able to accomplish all mission objectives assigned via contract?   So under this scenario I would cheat all science to open nodes, and do contracts to earn the funds to upgrade buildings and earn cash to purchase the parts.  Under this scenario I might also deliberately add a few additional cash-sink rules that I would have to also manage with the debug cheat bar to decrease funds.  Mabye a "skunkworks" development fee of $5,000,000 or something to allow myself to introduce a new craft or model to the career.  Additional fees to retire and replace a craft by actually fully recovering it at the KSC and issuing a  shiney new one.  ...or fees to bring out a refueling truck, etc.

4) Loans  -  I might allow myself to take out a loan of X amount with certain limits and rules on repayment with interest.  As opposed to killing a career due to some unfortunate handling of contracts and losing track a bit on how much I just spent on a fantastical new space station!  ...that didn't really have a contract payout attached to it.

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by XLjedi

[MaxwellsDemon]

If the science is there to be taken (from around KSC), I don't see how it's a "cheat."  It is, however, pretty boring.  So, a lot of boredom in exchange for rushing through something I don't really care to rush through?  Not my cuppa tea.   

 

(Note:  I usually decrease the Science reward in my campaign games anyway, just to stretch things out... so I'm obviously playing in a different style here...)

Edited January 24, 2018 by MaxwellsDemon
addition

[GoSlash27]

31 minutes ago, MaxwellsDemon said:

It is, however, pretty boring.

Oh, I don't think it's that boring. I get through the KSC science pretty quickly, and it's a busy process. What's boring is the long flights to collect science from distant Kerbin biomes like the Badlands and poles. I go after them early- on as well, because their meager science is only helpful in the early stages of the game and it takes less in- game time to acquire than going to the Mun. Also, I know that if I don't collect the science from far-away biomes on Kerbin early, I will have zero incentive to collect it later.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited January 24, 2018 by GoSlash27

[Van Disaster]

Last time I bothered with career I had some extra experiments, and a surface science mod - that makes noodling around local to KSC quite useful and also gives enough ( with basic up & down rocketry ) to unlock basic aircraft, and then you can do it again with those - that's actually a much more logical progression. I didn't get to orbit for quite some time, meanwhile I'd flown all over the place.

[MaxwellsDemon]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

Oh, I don't think it's that boring.

Your mileage may vary.        One of KSP's strengths is the fairly broad set of options it gives us to play 'our way.'

[Tekaoh]

I don't consider KSC science to be an exploit. It's there for the taking. I farmed it because I want to complete 100% of science everywhere. I use the [x] Science! mod to see what science I still need so I can plan missions to collect every bit of science available. So I guess you could call this the OCD approach? I also collected the landed on water science and many of the splashed down on mountains/desert/grasslands sciences but I still have a few of those to find... I did wait until I had the tech to get all the KSC science in once launch, though. That made it at least a little more of a design challenge. Once my tech tree is unlocked, I'll use a strategy to redirect all my extra science into funds since there's no point having more science points, but I still want to complete all the science.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Tekaoh

[razark]

My problem with the early tech tree is that it's the same.

Every time I restart a career, if I have X mod, I'm going to do A, B, C, then D before it's any different.  If I use mod Y, it's E, F, G, then H.  Stock, it's going to be I, J, K, etc..  Add KCT on top of that, and it becomes a bit tedious to run through it, especially since I have my own record keeping system to update for each flight.

[AVaughan]

4 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Also, I know that if I don't collect the science from far-away biomes on Kerbin early, I will have zero incentive to collect it later.

I generally try to land some of my manned Mun or Minmus missions in whatever biomes I haven't already farmed from Kerbin.  Flying planes to the poles is just too boring for me.

[Atkara]

6 hours ago, XLjedi said:

Although, I don't consider KSC science biome farming a cheat or exploit.

Me neither. And it's not that you're going with a complete experiments pack from the beginning, to get a significant amount of science. On the other hand, I don't bother with more than the launchpad, the airstrip and the area next to it (named KSC) and that's to unlock very basic things, very early on. Once I get to orbit (usually on the 2nd/3rd launch) I'm also in position to fly-by/orbit the Mun, which gets me the science I need to proceed further.

Other than that and somewhat off-topic, on my current career I did a tradeoff: In exchange for having full action groups in VAB/SPH from the start, I opted for entry purchases of the researched parts.

[Spricigo]

I consider underating valid game mechanics an exploit.

 

 

 

[ARS]

1. Start the game with starter science at maximum (5000 I think?), along with science instrument mods (dmagic, probeplus, etc.)

2. Unlock all science instrument parts

3. Use KEI mod to gather all KSC science in one click (this is basically farming all science on KSC biomes without the "wandering around" parts)

4. Presto! More than 16K science!

Not being cheaty, but I've been playing KSP since v1.0 era, and my first career has all tech node unlocked legitimately. But every time there's major update, it always broke my save file and I don't want to do all the chores to re-unlock the tech nodes. What I consider cheating is by using mobile processing lab to get science. Personally though, I've never used it, not because it's too easy, but simply I'm too lazy to do timewarp while sitting doing nothing while waiting the science to rack up

Edited January 25, 2018 by ARS

[Archgeek]

I've always found that close-to-home science biomes have an implied purpose that's not exactly served by running around doing a big farming run for small gains.  I find that they really come in handy as gap-filler.  'That last Mun mission didn't quite rack up enough science to get that node you want to send off your big Duna mission, by an infuriatingly small amount?  Grab a rover and drive up to a building or two to fill in the gap.  Eve fly-by didn't get enough for docking ports you want for your new station, shy just a couple hundred?  Go visit a mun or minmus biome or two while your Duna mission's still in transit.

Sure, you could farm the mun to shreds and have most all the tech you need for that Jool-5, but in all honesty, the ad-hoc aproach is a lot less grindy, lets you walk away and progress more readily, and gives those low-density science deposits a shining new purpose into the midgame, especially if you've picked up new instruments since the last visits.

[Alpha 360]

Honestly, I always use a slightly modded version of the stock tech tree. I haven't tried out mods like Umanned Before Manned but I have used the engineering tech tree before. I do like the stock tech tree in comparison to some other modded ones, but I find I can finish the stock tech tree without leaving the Kerbin system, albeit with a lot of grinding and science labs. 

I personally look down on people who use the cheats to get farther ahead in the game. I occasionally cheat to help a krew make its way home, but science is sacred. I have never and will never mess with science points using cheats.

Unless it involves helping a krew WITH science. I am nice to my kerbals to cheat to let them survive. Only to go on more life threatening adventures. I'm a nice guy.